Uberti Cattleman CMS?... CCW?

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That small framed young'un in the middle is a living legend with a single action revolver.
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Yes he was, as his father started training him while he was srill a pre-teen boy.

But later when he got serious he turned to a 1911 Government Model. Single Actions were for fun. :uhoh:
 
The .44-40 and .45 Long Colt are man-killing calibers. Thus the single action revolver is a far better weapon than the smaller caliber weapons that most people choose for CCW.
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I'm not exactly sure what this is in response to, but perhaps it might be my observations in post #29. If so, I would point out that the Colt 1911 Government Model pistol is chambered to use a .45-caliber cartridge.

Anyway, I am aware that the .44-40 and .45 Colt have a long-standing reputaion for getting the job done, but what really matters is were and what the bullet hits in the way of a vital organ, bullet diameter not withstanding.

But ammunition isn't the principal issue in this thread, the platform the ammunition is used in is.

For example, one of my 'pets" is a Taurus model 445, which is a 5-shot, double-action, 2-inch snubby, chambered in .44 Special. It is slightly larger then a S&W K-frame, but with a smaller handle/butt. For serious work I would carry it before using any SAA platform revolver. Incidentally, the same model was offered in .45 Colt.

My experience with "the old six-shooter," goes back to 1949, and I enjoy them as much as any other revolver. That said, my long experience has taught me that for defensive purposes we have come a long way since 1873.
 
I would not choose an inferior weapon to protect my life.
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And I wouldn't choose a less familiar weapon that I was less proficient with, strictly because it was more socially acceptable to anonymous internet characters.
 
Anyway, I am aware that the .44-40 and .45 Colt have a long-standing reputaion for getting the job done, but what really matters is were and what the bullet hits in the way of a vital organ, bullet diameter not withstanding.
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Bullet diameter + bullet weight = the law of mass. The bigger, heavier bullets are going to hit hard.

My point is that a large caliber SA revolver is going to be a better weapon than a smaller caliber pistol.
 
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It seems to me that we are ignoring CraigC's point of familiarity. A J framed 357 is not my cup of tea. I can shoot it well, but the conditions that would exist in a gunfight would not give me confidence.
It also occurs to me that if a situation would suddenly "explode" in front of you, would you sweep the garment away, subconsciuosly gain the stance, and come out with the proper grip, beginning to line up the sights? No, not if you are unfamiliar with the handgun or the movement, spell p-r-a-c-t-i-c-e.
The J framewould be somewhat unfamiliar to me; therefore,I would not choose the J frame. Trying not be theatrical, I would be totally comfortable with my cowboy rig. Might have to get some hotter rounds from some of you:cool:. Emulating Thell.
The subconscious is a strange part of us. Psychologists suggest that it takes an incessant 21 days of repetition to change it.
If you cannot accomplish the aforementioned real life scenrio, don't get a single action.
 
My point is that a large caliber SA revolver is going to be a better weapon than a smaller caliber pistol.
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And mine was that the use of large-bore cartridges (.41 Magnum, .44 Special, .45 ACP/Auto Rim, .45 Colt, etc.) is not limited to the Single Action Army platform.

I have known men, and still know a few, that still carry some version of the old six-shooter as a defensive weapon. But they all subscribe to the position they'll be able to end any confrontation within the space of 5 or 6 shots, and have both hands available if fast shooting is required. While in the past some have drawn their revolver, none have had to actually shoot it.

During my lifetime I have known a number of well known individuals who had actual experience when it came to defensive use of handguns. Charles Askins, Bill Jordan, Rex Applegate, Jeff Cooper come quickly to mind. I have known more that were also experienced, but not famous. They all had their own ideas about "what was best," and "how to go about it." None of them carried a single action revolver for anything but recreational purposes.

I agree that practice can overcome some (but not all) of the shortcomings the 1873 platform presents. However it offers no outstanding advantages, and an equal amount of practice with something better will not leave anyone at any serious disadvantage. If this wasn't so at least some of the "been there, done that" individuals mentioned above would have endorsed the SAA. It is noteworthy that they didn't.
 
i have shot single actions all my life the only draw back for me is slow reloads, the 45 colt will and can do the job
 
No, not if you are unfamiliar with the handgun or the movement, spell p-r-a-c-t-i-c-e.
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Exactly! I spend untold hours and hours shooting single actions. I work from home, shoot on my own property and do so nearly every day. I garner from the posts of many that they view shooting a single action as a "relaxing" experience. In other words, not taken seriously. I take my shooting very seriously and am intent on becoming better with the platform, not just making noise. Draw-fire exercises, point-shooting, slip-hammering, one-handed, two-handed, weak-handed, unloading one-handed and every reload is done as quickly as possible. To be frank, I am not willing to spend this much time with anything else, other than the 1911. It would be stupid of me to carry a J-frame that I am not intimately familiar with, have no desire to be as proficient with, just because it is more socially acceptable. These guns have a very, very limited utility outside of concealed carry. Single actions can be used for anything and have FAR more utility. No sir, I'll take the sixgun that I am intimately famliar with, manipulate without thought, reload without looking at, can hit with well beyond the snubby's effective range and can actually stand to shoot hundreds of rounds in a session. There's a good reason why I don't own a single J-frame. I guarantee you that unless you're carrying speedloaders, the reload issue is not as clear-cut as some would have you believe.

It's the indian, not the arrow.
 
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What is the fastest draw and hit known to man? What firearm was used? (hope it was a single action:rolleyes:)

BTW, Thell Reed earned the moniker "Fastest Man Alive" while fast drawing and shooting LIVE ammo:what:

Old Fuff, I think we are saying the same thing with the individual bias; however, the OP is talking SA revolver. In of itself and in the right hands a SA can be devastatingly efficient.
 
Old Fuff, I think we are saying the same thing with the individual bias; however, the OP is talking SA revolver. In of itself and in the right hands a SA can be devastatingly efficient.
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It can also fall short if the user can't use both hands, or if the shooting goes past 5 or 6 rounds and a reload is required. If the OP (and others) want to handicap themselves in a life or death situation by using a less then best platform that's their business.

Face it! Fast as he was with a Single Action, Reed changed to a .45 Colt pistol when the chips were down.

At this point the Old Fuff is using up valuable bandwith, and so will retire. :neener: :D
 
And mine was that the use of large-bore cartridges (.41 Magnum, .44 Special, .45 ACP/Auto Rim, .45 Colt, etc.) is not limited to the Single Action Army platform.
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The 1911 pistol may be superior to the 1873 revolver (both being .45 caliber) as the 1911 pistol can be reloaded much faster. But the 1873 would be superior to the smaller caliber pistols that most people use for CCW.
 
It can also fall short if the user can't use both hands...
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That's why we practice with one hand. :rolleyes:


...or if the shooting goes past 5 or 6 rounds and a reload is required.
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Do you really think that a J-frame snubby can be reloaded faster than a single action without the use of speedloaders? How many folks carrying a concealed weapon just slip a snubby in their pocket? Yet, there is no debate about that??? Do all you guys who carry DA's and autos carry speedloaders and extra magazines?


If the OP (and others) want to handicap themselves in a life or death situation by using a less then best platform that's their business.
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It is certainly debatable but unfortunately, there are some among us who apparently place ZERO importance on proficiency and everything on equipment. Do you really think any of those "Combat Masters" would carry a firearm they were not the most proficient with?


Fast as he was with a Single Action, Reed changed to a .45 Colt pistol when the chips were down.
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Face it, all those other guys in the picture were law enforcement. HUGE difference. Not sure what you mean by "switched". Single actions were Reed's "thing" since childhood and he continues to not only be infamous for his SA work but people who make movies actually pay him for it. But really, who cares???


Charles Askins, Bill Jordan, Rex Applegate, Jeff Cooper come quickly to mind.
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Also law enforcement.


It occurs to me, every time we have this discussion, that we have a bunch of double action and auto shooters telling single action shooters what they can and can't do.
 
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I carry a Colt SAA 45 4 3/4" often. A sp101 in warmer weather. I feel a lot more accurate with the Colt. I honestly don't care what any of you think about this. I've been shooting Colts my whole life. I don't know squat about autos, and find myself cocking the hammer on the sp101 instinctively. Colts are what I know, Colts are what I shoot, Colts are what I trust.

Depending on your body type, and how you dress, a Colt SAA isn't as hard to conceal as many think. I often wear a sport coat and the gun IWB. My wife tells me she never sees the gun print unless I bend over to touch my toes. Therefore, I make it a point, when in public, not to bend over to touch my toes........
 
Do you really think that a J-frame snubby can be reloaded faster than a single action without the use of speedloaders?
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I shoot a single action 95% of the time, and carry a DA. I can tell you without a doubt that a DA with swing out cylinder and star ejector is definitely faster to reload than a single action with a loading gate and single ejector rod.

Also, an "1873" does not necessarily a big bore make. The OP had nothing to do with caliber. That would be a separate discussion as any type of firearm can be found in various calibers. There are plenty of .32-20 and .38 Special Single Action Armies out there to prove it. Don't assume "SAA" or "1873" necessarily means ".45 Colt"!
 
I can tell you without a doubt that a DA with swing out cylinder and star ejector is definitely faster to reload than a single action with a loading gate and single ejector rod.
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And how long does it take you to reload a DA without speedloaders? How seriously do you take your reloads when shooting a SA?

The point being that obviously given equal skill level, the DA will be quicker to reload.....slightly. However, we are not talking about equal skill level. We're talking about carrying a SA because it's what we're most proficient with, versus anything else that we are not. If I was willing to spend as much time with DA's as I am with SA's, this would be a very different discussion.

These discussions will never come to any fair conclusion. You will always have polymer auto shooters saying that their guns are more "modern" than 1911's and hold more ammo. You'll have 1911 shooters saying their guns are more modern than DA revolvers and hold more ammo. You'll always have DA revolver shooters saying that SA's are antiquated, that their guns are vastly quicker to reload and to shoot. The difference is rarely as extreme as each gun's respective protagonists perceive it to be.

Do you guys really think an unskilled DA shooter can outperform a skilled SA shooter, strictly due to equipment?

If you can instinctively flick off the safety of a 1911, then you can thumb back the hammer of a SA just as easily and without thought. Again, one more time, it's the indian, not the arrow.
 
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