Uberti Firing Pin

[JayBeeKay]

I purchased a Uberti revolver a couple weeks ago - Calif resident here, so there's the mandatory 'Cooling Off Period' of 10 days.
Anyhow - The gun has been shipped and recieved by the FFL and I looked at it and get to pick it up soon.
I took the pamphlet out of the box and I'm trying to learn about the firing pin on those.
It's a floating firing pin that has a little plunger behind it in the hammer that only allows the firing pin to hit the primer if the trigger is pulled..
If you own one like that, then you know what I'm referring to.
So I'm not familiar with that system at all...
Does anyone here have experience with those types of revolvers using that firing pin?

Good? Bad? High maintenance? Fragility? Durability?

Thanks in advance - looking forward to replies

 

[beag_nut]

"Does anyone here have experience with those types of revolvers using that firing pin?"
I don't have any Uberti's, but I do have Rugers, which have a similar arrangement. On a Ruger the transfer bar rises when the trigger is pulled, the hammer hits that bar, which then transfers the hit to the firing pin, which floats in the revolver's frame. NEVER had any problem, but I could "imagine" a revolver being extremely dirty and being such that the dirt could retard the firing pin. But I don't let any of my guns get dirty.

 

[JayBeeKay]

It's not a transfer bar
It's difficult to explain to someone who hasn't see one
They look exactly like the older guns that have the firing pin mounted on the hammer

 

[Pat Riot]

I believe you have the “retractable firing pin” as explained here: https://www.uberti-usa.com/news/uberti-adds-retractable-firing-pin-to-1873-cattleman-revolvers

I have no experience with them personally but have heard of issues with folks in Cowboy Action Shooting. Apparently if someone is firing very quickly it’s possible to kind of “outrun the speed the firing pin engages”, but I have not witnessed this. From folks I talked to if you’re not trying to speed shoot they seem to operate okay.

 

[krinko]

I have 1873 and 1875 Uberti repros with all three of their import requirement hammer systems.
Aside from being slightly ugly, they all work well enough. I have not had to do any special maintenance and nothing has broken so far. The frame mounted firing pin used on the Beretta marked Bisley looks pretty weak but hasn't failed yet. (The hammer is flat-faced and looks like it should be firing roll caps.)
Yours is the one with the rod inside the body of the hammer? I have the "Frank James" nickel plated '75 Remington with that type and it works lust peachy. Not quite as obtrusive as the others.
The third type is the model with the little wedge on the hammer under the firing pin. It is the only Uberti with a hammer that clicks four times for C-O-L-T , by the way.
-----krinko

 

[ontarget]

I have 3 of them. I've only had an issue with 1 of the 3 and it was cured with a drop of oil in the channel through the hammer where the rod raises up to engage the firing pin.
For those who just can't abide the new system, there are standard hammer kits available. I believe Taylor's sells them IIRC.

 

[JayBeeKay]

Yes - Mine has the little rod in the hammer.
Pretty slick idea for a genuine Colt appearance.
I read about it in the description and I couldn't picture how it might work but when I got the manual and looked at it it makes sense, as long as it doesn't fail.
I can't wait to get it home and take it apart !

 

[AlexanderA]

The advantage of this Uberti safety system (as opposed to the Ruger transfer bar, for example) is that it's totally contained within the hammer. If you're a purist, like me, you can replace the hammer with an earlier one and be completely authentic.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I had a chance to shoot one a few years ago. Actually I got to shoot two of them.

One of them had failures to fire when I pulled the trigger very, very slowly. Not every time, but a few times. If I yanked the trigger as I normally do in CAS there was no problem.

Seeing as they did not belong to me, I could not take them apart to see what was going on. I suspect there may have been a burr of some sort inside that was impeding things, but since I could not take them apart I never found out what the problem was.

As previously stated, this system is completely different than a Ruger transfer bar.

 

[JayBeeKay]

Thanks for the replies

Does it damage them to dry fire?

 

[45 Dragoon]

Something about this question . . . most folks know what "snap caps" are for so why wouldn't you use them anyway? (By the way, snap caps are for practice for those that don't know)

Mike

 

[Master Blaster]

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...t-uberti-357-competition-range-report.891504/

My experience with 2 Brand new uberti revolvers and their failures.

 

[JayBeeKay]

Something about this question . . . most folks know what "snap caps" are for so why wouldn't you use them anyway? (By the way, snap caps are for practice for those that don't know)

Mike

I understand that some guys think dry firing is a sin.
If this thread is going to go off the rails in that direction .. I'll sit it out
I've got plenty of guns that can be dry fired without a snap cap, all day long, and a few that I wouldn't dry fire even once.
Just wondered what guys say about that Uberti hammer design / dry firing, that's all.

 

[JayBeeKay]

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...t-uberti-357-competition-range-report.891504/

My experience with 2 Brand new uberti revolvers and their failures.

I read your thread on your Uberti failures.
I am hoping that I won't regret getting mine. It sure is pretty - The checkered grips feel great and the fit is much better than Rugers that I have.
It's unfortunate that they can't get the metallurgy right but they put so much time into the bluing and the immaculate fit of parts.
Although mine has a very wide B/C gap which disappoints me.

 

[45 Dragoon]

I understand that some guys think dry firing is a sin.
If this thread is going to go off the rails in that direction .. I'll sit it out
I've got plenty of guns that can be dry fired without a snap cap, all day long, and a few that I wouldn't dry fire even once.
Just wondered what guys say about that Uberti hammer design / dry firing, that's all.

Typically, firing pins held in the hammer with a cross pin shouldn't be dry fired. The sudden stop causes the pin to slam against the cross pin (since there's no primer cushion) and damage the setup. The revolver in question uses a cross pin keeper for the firing pin so I wouldn't dry fire it. And, safe or not, I always defer to using snap caps just as a rule (takes the question off the table).

Mike

 

[45 Dragoon]

It's unfortunate that they can't get the metallurgy right but they put so much time into the bluing and the immaculate fit of parts.
Although mine has a very wide B/C gap which disappoints me.

Nothing wrong with the metallurgy (maybe you're referring to the screws?). The Uberti Cattleman (and it's variants) in 45C can handle 21,000 psi loads as regular ammo. They're that good! (Would stick with 15,000 psi or less with Piettas).

What's the gap size?

Mike

 

[deadeye dick]

I made up some dummy rounds for my various handguns. This consists of a case with the spent primer in place, NO powder of course, and a seated bullet. That is what I use as a snap cap. Any problem with?

 

[.45Coltguy]

JBK, I have an Uberti/Taylor's and a Pietta, both with retractable firing pins. No problems with either as of now. I'm a desert plinker and not a CAS shooter, so, my two .45 Colts ger regular fire, nothing fast. I don't dry fire them. Really like these Italian replicas.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I made up some dummy rounds for my various handguns. This consists of a case with the spent primer in place, NO powder of course, and a seated bullet. That is what I use as a snap cap. Any problem with?

Yes.

Spent primers are useless for cushioning the blow of the firing pin.

As has been said so many times before, it is not the fall, it is the sudden stop at the end.

When the hammer of a revolver strikes the frame, it stops moving instantaneously.

I used to do a lot of work with a company that made electronics for the military. The deceleration of a hammer striking the frame of a revolver approaches infinity as far as Gs are concerned.

What can happen with a hammer mounted firing pin is when the hammer slams to a stop, the tip of the firing pin wants to keep going.

Here is a photo of a 2nd Gen Colt Single Action Army hammer. Notice where I have drawn a line across the tip of the firing pin. Notice how thin it is at that point. When the hammer slams to a stop against the frame, there is nothing to support the tip of the firing pin and it wants to keep right on going. I am not saying the tip of the firing pin will break off the first time the revolver is dry fired, but do it enough and eventually you are going to crawling on the ground looking for the tip of the firing pin. Trust me on this.






The problem with using spent primers is after a few strikes they take on a new shape. In that condition they are no longer cushioning the firing pin as the hammer slams to a stop against the frame. With an unfired primer, as the firing pin strikes it the soft copper of the primer gets deformed, and slows down the impact of the firing pin. A primer that has been struck a few times will take on a new shape and is no longer slowing the motion of the firing pin. You might as well throw away the brass with deformed spent primers and dry fire the revolver because the deformed primers are accomplishing nothing as far as slowing down the firing pin is concerned.

A lot has been written about filling the primer pocket with silicone and other things. Silicone is too soft and will not cushion the firing pin either.

Spend a few bucks and buy decent snap caps that are designed to cushion the firing pin.

 

[JayBeeKay]

Nothing wrong with the metallurgy (maybe you're referring to the screws?). The Uberti Cattleman (and it's variants) in 45C can handle 21,000 psi loads as regular ammo. They're that good! (Would stick with 15,000 psi or less with Piettas).

What's the gap size?

Mike

Thanks for the reply, Mike
Judging by MasterBlaster's thread on his Ubertis (link above) and the issues that he had, it sounded like the metal might be soft.
Top strap stretching / poor tensile strength... From what metallurgy I remember from school.

I haven't brought my Uberti home yet.
I'm in CA and there's a waiting period to cause inconvience to gun buyers. So I get it Monday.
I can measure the B/C gap then - It looks like about .010" Wider than any other revolvers I own.

One of my other guns is a TC Contender and you aren't supposed to dry fire that even once. A broken firing pin is likely if you do.
But I was doing some trigger work on mine and had no snap cap, and I crazy glued a small piece of dense foam onto the frame where the hammer makes contact to cushion it. It doesn't even go click when I dry fire it... Just a light papp

JBK, I have an Uberti/Taylor's and a Pietta, both with retractable firing pins. No problems with either as of now. I'm a desert plinker and not a CAS shooter, so, my two .45 Colts ger regular fire, nothing fast. I don't dry fire them. Really like these Italian replicas.

I really like the looks of the Italian replicas too, I hope I like everything about it.
It's my first Italian reproduction.
If yours was a .357, I'd ask if you fire magnums much.
I'll be firing mostly lead boolits so there won't be much high pressure stuff, but maybe occasionally

 

[.45Coltguy]

JBK, yeah, all handloads. 250gr coated rnfp over 8.0gr Unique or 7.2gr Universal. Mid range loads. They shoot very well. Hope you enjoy yours.

 

[deadeye dick]

Yes.

Spent primers are useless for cushioning the blow of the firing pin.

As has been said so many times before, it is not the fall, it is the sudden stop at the end.

When the hammer of a revolver strikes the frame, it stops moving instantaneously.

I used to do a lot of work with a company that made electronics for the military. The deceleration of a hammer striking the frame of a revolver approaches infinity as far as Gs are concerned.

What can happen with a hammer mounted firing pin is when the hammer slams to a stop, the tip of the firing pin wants to keep going.

Here is a photo of a 2nd Gen Colt Single Action Army hammer. Notice where I have drawn a line across the tip of the firing pin. Notice how thin it is at that point. When the hammer slams to a stop against the frame, there is nothing to support the tip of the firing pin and it wants to keep right on going. I am not saying the tip of the firing pin will break off the first time the revolver is dry fired, but do it enough and eventually you are going to crawling on the ground looking for the tip of the firing pin. Trust me on this.

View attachment 1067662




The problem with using spent primers is after a few strikes they take on a new shape. In that condition they are no longer cushioning the firing pin as the hammer slams to a stop against the frame. With an unfired primer, as the firing pin strikes it the soft copper of the primer gets deformed, and slows down the impact of the firing pin. A primer that has been struck a few times will take on a new shape and is no longer slowing the motion of the firing pin. You might as well throw away the brass with deformed spent primers and dry fire the revolver because the deformed primers are accomplishing nothing as far as slowing down the firing pin is concerned.

A lot has been written about filling the primer pocket with silicone and other things. Silicone is too soft and will not cushion the firing pin either.

Spend a few bucks and buy decent snap caps that are designed to cushion the firing pin.

Driftwood, Thanks for the quality and in depth explanation. It made a lot of sense to me. Never thought of in that way.
It's snap caps for me.
Edit; I assume this is for pistols with hammer mounted firing pins. Striker fired autos and transfer bars pistols are not included?

 

[doubleh]

My Taylor&Co. has the type firing pin mentioned in the OP. So far, so good, no problem at all.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Edit; I assume this is for pistols with hammer mounted firing pins. Striker fired autos and transfer bars pistols are not included?

Howdy Again

I know nothing about striker fired semi-autos, so I cannot comment on them.

Here is a typical S&W hammer mounted firing pin, this is a Model 14-3 from the 1970s. Notice the shape of the firing pin. Notice how it is long and cylindrical at the 'business end". To me that is another perfect candidate for the tip wanting to keep right on going when the hammer slams to a stop against the frame. So I do not dry fire any of my S&W revolvers.






Here is the frame mounted firing pin from a modern S&W Model 617. The firing pin fits into the hole in the frame. The cylindrical pin slips into the other hole, and captures the firing pin by fitting into the cut out in the bottom of the firing pin. Notice too there is a small coil spring that fits between the firing pin and the frame. The purpose of the spring is to keep the firing pin retracted in its hole in the frame, so the cylinder can rotate while loaded without the firing pin interfering with cartridge rims. So when the hammer falls, it strikes the rear of the firing pin and drives it forward to fire a primer. The purpose of the little spring is not to cushion the blow, but I suspect it does provide a slight amount of cushioning if this revolver is dry fired. I suspect that even though this firing pin has a long, narrow profile, it would be less subject to damage from dry firing than the style pictured in the photo above.






Ruger revolvers have always had frame mounted firing pins, never firing pins mounted on the hammer. This photo shows the frame mounted firing pin of an old Three Screw Ruger Blackhawk. Notice there is no transfer bar, the hammer strikes the firing pin directly.






Here is a modern (circa 1975, but still modern) Ruger Blackhawk. The hammer is cocked and the transfer bar is in position to be struck by the hammer. Sorry there is so much crud around the firing pin.






As a general rule, I do not like to dry fire any firearm. However, I just checked Ruger's website, and the on line handbook for a Ruger New Model (transfer bar equipped) revolver on page 18 clearly states that dry firing, will not damage the revolver.

https://ruger-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/_manuals/blackhawk.pdf

 

[halfmoonclip]

Been dry firing modern striker guns with impunity, and modern hammer autos as well. Not by the hour, but frequently. Glock especially has no trouble with it.
Long story about the Uberti firing pin. Had a Stampede with a transfer bar; really nice gun, but it just wasn't period correct. Sooooo, bought an Uberti Smokewagon, it had a protruding firing pin, yes? It also had a nicely slicked up action.
After examining it, figured out how it worked, and that wasn't period correct. Considered swapping it (and that got me tossed out of a gunshop... ). Ordered a 4-click hammer from Uberti, installed it with zero hassle, lived happily ever after.
Moon