UK Soldier attack - police shooting

[Blackstone]

An amateur video of the police armed response to the two knife wielding fanatics in London has been released:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woolwich-attack-watch-shocking-video-1907772

You can see just how much ground the first BG with the knife managed to cover in such a short time. Can't tell from the video, but I think he began the charge before the police car had even stopped. In this case, the driver would almost certainly not have time to respond.

Also interesting why the driver then armed herself with Taser when the second BG had a gun. The MP5s were also on single shot, and from a conversation I had with an armed police officer at an airport, he said that they weren't capable of automatic or burst fire.

 

[Bobson]

You can see just how much ground the first BG with the knife managed to cover in such a short time.

It's generally accepted that an individual armed with a knife could move 21 feet closer in the amount of time it takes the average person to draw a firearm from a holster. I know that's not exactly what's going on here, but it does paint a sobering picture - things happen very quickly.

I took a training class where the instructor gave me a training firearm, and put me at the podium of a classroom designed for about 40 students. He had an "assailant" enter the room from the side opposite the podium (about 20 feet), and start threatening me while brandishing the knife. I wasn't told what all would happen, just that I should respond accordingly. I decided not to draw my firearm initially, but the "assailant" ended up charging me. It felt remarkably real. I drew the firearm and got two very sloppy shots off just as my attacker reached stabbing distance. I don't even know if I would have survived it in real life. When it goes down, it happens fast.

 

[Blackstone]

Yeah, I'm aware of the Tueller drill, this video was just an example of how fast someone can move.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

The followup video is interesting since tweets from the scene had the female officer putting the suspects down with gunfire as they rushed. (Reminds me of all the caveats I have heard about eyewitnesses.*)

Personally, I think it is best to have the MP5 semi-auto carbine in an urban environment (from talking to police and military for decades) because a panic reaction with the submachinegun could be a full auto burst--not a good thing in an urban area. (Friday morning quarterbacking from the rocking char, I admit).



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*As far as eyewitnesses go, I am reminded of the opening of John Wyndham's "Out of the Deeps" aka "The Kraken Awakes" (1953) one of the first sci-fi novels I read as a kid, after H.G.Well's "War of the Worlds":

"I'm a reliable witness, you're a reliable witness, practically all God's children are reliable witnesses in their own estimation--which makes it funny how such different ideas of the same affair get about. Almost the only people I know who agree word for word on what they saw on the night of 15 July are Phyllis and I...."

 

[Odd Job]

The MP5s were also on single shot, and from a conversation I had with an armed police officer at an airport, he said that they weren't capable of automatic or burst fire.

That matches what two armed officers told me at a London hospital back in 2004. They had MP5s and G17s and were using ammunition manufactured by BAE. It was jacketed truncated round nose with exposed lead core. Very unusual, a kind of halfway step between FMJ and JHP...

 

[Odd Job]

Oh yes, I remembered a bomb and blast conference I attended in London 2004 or 2005. Some CO19 guys attended with various rifles. They had an MP5 which was semi-auto only, a .338 Lapua Rifle (IIRC it was a Blaser R93) and also they had an H&K G36.
The G36 was also semi-auto only.

 

[Creature]

They had an MP5 which was semi-auto only, a .338 Lapua Rifle (IIRC it was a Blaser R93) and also they had an H&K G36.
The G36 was also semi-auto only.

The police in the UK make extensive use of the H&K G36C as seen here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-stop-dangerous-shoot-outs-feuding-gangs.html

 

[kwguy]

this video was just an example of how fast someone can move.

It's a very good example. Many folks, understandably so, don't realize just how fast something can happen. Even when armed with a concealed weapon, that may not help, depending upon your state of readiness, the technical ability to even realize the threat, and then draw your weapon competently, etc. Once someone has initiated a hostile act and has gotten inside your react / decision cycle, it's tough to overcome. Even if you are trained and ready, since they are the initiators, they usually have the element of at least a little bit of surprise on their side. Overcoming that can be difficult as an individual. Having superior firepower helps (I believe the police had more than one shooter?). Or at the very least, one of the cops was more armed than the attacker, which helps.

I wonder how many hits the shooter made vs. misses. That would be interesting.

Those particular police officers were armed and ready for that guy, and he still got relatively close to them as they put him down.

Glad you found that video, it's good.