Underwood Xtreme Defender Ammo

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TomJ

TomJ

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I've seen gel tests from Lehigh's Penetrator ammunition. From what I've seen, their 9mm ammo tends to penetrate more than I'm comfortable with (22 to 32 inches). I received an e-mail from Underwood Ammunition today regarding their Xtreme Defender ammunition, which uses Lehigh's Defender bullet and seems to be a little different than the Penetrator. Their specs and link to their web site are pasted below. I can't find any other information on this round, and was wondering if anyone was familiar with it. I'm happy with the SD ammo I'm using, generally Gold Dots, Buffalo Barnes, Cor Bon DPX or HST's, depending on what I'm carrying and am not necessarily looking to make a change, but am more curious than anything.

https://www.underwoodammo.com/9mm-luger-p-90-grain-xtreme-defender-1/

Technical Information
Caliber: 9mm Luger
Bullet Weight: 115 Grains
Bullet Style: Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defense
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1475 fps
Muzzle Energy: 435 ft. lbs.
Penetration" 16 inches
 
It's hard to tell from the link exactly what they are talking about. Is the bullet 90 or 115 grains? The link shows both in two different places.

Is it +P, or +P+? Again, both are shown in the link.

It also says it's designed to "punch through entry barriers." I guess that includes the walls in your house.

I think I'll pass on this, whatever it is.
 
a) they need to check their website... product description says "90 grains" and further below "115 grains"

b) it's a solid copper machined bullet so 90 grains seems more realistic

c) you are also certainly NOT pushing 115 grains @ 1475 fps regardless of +P or not...

d) why in the world would you need 16" of penetration with a 9mm bullet?

no - it's not good enough or powerful enough for a backwood gun against bears and for self-defense 16" of penetration is scary.....

and yeah... $30 for 20 rounds....
 
so basically this ammo is guaranteed to exit my house in a home defense situation in the event that i miss my target...
 
yup. anybody who uses a "Xtreme Penetrator" labeled round with a claimed 16" ( !!) of penetration for home-defense or carry is a :banghead:

A non-expanding, very fast and fairly light 9mm round will just punch one fairly small hole through the bad guy - I take expanding JHP any-day over that.... because in the WORST case they will get clogged up and not expand.... so basically performing like the penetrator round....
 
I've got the Underwood Xtreme Penetrator ammo in both 9mm and .40S&W. I've also got their Controlled Fracturing ammo in 9mm and .40S&W. The 9mm ammo I bought is all +p+ but the bullet weight is slightly different. I got the 124g for the Controlled Fracturing and 115g for the Xtreme Penetrator.

I've got the 124g CF ammo in my edc right now. As for the XP ammo, you never know when you are going to need better penetration...

Also, if you look closely at the Underwood sight, the have the 90g Xtreme Defender ammo in regular and +p.
 
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Interesting concept. I wonder if those fan blades slow the rotation of the bullet and would then destabilize it. I like the fact that companies are trying to improve bullet design and performance. But for now I'll stick to Ranger T's and PDX1.
 
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FWIW, I bought a box of Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrators in .380 and .45 ACP. I was mainly interested in achieving adequate penetration in the .380 with at least some chance of greater effectiveness than with FMJs.

I test fired both into water-filled milk jugs. I was unable to visually detect any real difference between the Lehigh .380 and the Cor-Bon DPX in terms of the amount of disruption of the jugs, however the Lehigh DID penetrate two more jugs than the Cor-Bon. :cool:

The .45 Lehighs also penetrated far deeper than Federal HSTs, but did not cause quite as much explosive disruption. Did not have enough jugs to stop the Lehigh rounds, so I don't know how much further they would penetrate.

The Lehighs provided MUCH more recoil than the JHPs in both .380 and .45. The 200-gr Lehighs were actually uncomfortable to shoot in my Springfield XDs, while the 230-gr HST +Ps were quite comfortable.

Although I did not do extensive reliability testing, I had no feeding or functioning issues with either the .380 or .45 Lehigh ammo.

I will continue to carry HSTs in my XDs, but have switched to Lehighs in my Ruger LCP for the extra penetration. I will have a spare magazine of Lehighs for each of my .45s in case I need extra barrier penetration, but IMHO they overpenetrate for ordinary defensive use, and the excessive recoil degrades my ability to shoot them accurately. YMMV.
 
1) The Underwood Xtreme Defender in 9MM is a 90 grain bullet, down from the 115 grains of the Xtreme Penetrator. In looking at the bullet it seems they have machined the cross legs to make a smaller cross at the tip.

2) The round comes in Xtreme Defender, Xtreme Defender +P, and Xtreme Defender +P+.

3) I notice many commenters are confusing the Xtreme DEFENDER with the Xtreme Penetrator! They are not the same round!!!
The DEFENDER has a different profile to the bullet. It is lighter also. TNoutdoors9 tested the Xtreme Penetrator and it was well over 32" penetration. I believe Underwood has figured out how to drop that to 16" by changing the profile of the Penetrator round.

BIGBORE44: The flutes cause a large wound channel for 8-10", then the bullet starts tumbling for another 6".
 
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If you go to the Lehigh 9mm Luger +P 90 grain Xtreme Defender web page, there is a video available from the Military Arms Channel that is about 29 minutes long with penetration tests using ballistics gel.

The person conducting the testing is really clear in his explanation of testing using ballistics gel, and that it is only useful for providing a common media for different people to conduct tests and compare their results - and that it does NOT represent penetration in humans, or animals.

He conducted some tests with four layers of denim + some pork ribs to simulate penetration through clothing and the rib cage. The penetration was about 17-inches.

It also appears that the large wound channel may be caused by the bullet tumbling when it hits the gelatin as in all of the penetration tests (without the rib bones) the bullet comes to rest backwards.

He never addresses that orientation or speculates how many times the bullet may have tumbled - so, it could have been once or many times.

In any event - the testing is quite interesting to watch.
 
BigBore44 said:
Interesting concept. I wonder if those fan blades slow the rotation of the bullet and would then destabilize it. I like the fact that companies are trying to improve bullet design and performance. But for now I'll stick to Ranger T's and PDX1.
Click to expand...
+1
Winchester PDX1 124gr 9mm+P... (cuz Black Talon sounds way too scary), the best a Glock can get :D
 
texasgun said:
a) they need to check their website... product description says "90 grains" and further below "115 grains"

b) it's a solid copper machined bullet so 90 grains seems more realistic

c) you are also certainly NOT pushing 115 grains @ 1475 fps regardless of +P or not...

d) why in the world would you need 16" of penetration with a 9mm bullet?

no - it's not good enough or powerful enough for a backwood gun against bears and for self-defense 16" of penetration is scary.....

and yeah... $30 for 20 rounds....
Click to expand...
16 inches in a "FAT GUY"? OR BIKER/BOUNCER TYPE TOO MUCH? REALY???? LIKE I WAS ALWAYS TAUGHT, "OVER PENETRATION" might get you "SUED" But "UNDER PENETRATIOM" would get you killed
 
All these exotic bullets have a very long history of being ineffective compared to conventional, tested bullet designs. Using them is ridiculous, since all popular calibers have a wide range of available ammo that is known to be very effective.
 
My experience with Underwood hasnt been good. They push the limit of whats doable in any case. My experience is with the 10mm product and I could count on 1/3 of the recovered cases being split in a Glock barrel and in a Lone Wolf barrel. I have no issue with the bullet going fast and hitting hard but splitting cases isnt good for the chamber. SAAMI seems to be a serving suggestion and not a rule over there
 
TomJ said:
I've seen gel tests from Lehigh's Penetrator ammunition. From what I've seen, their 9mm ammo tends to penetrate more than I'm comfortable with (22 to 32 inches). I received an e-mail from Underwood Ammunition today regarding their Xtreme Defender ammunition, which uses Lehigh's Defender bullet and seems to be a little different than the Penetrator. Their specs and link to their web site are pasted below. I can't find any other information on this round, and was wondering if anyone was familiar with it. I'm happy with the SD ammo I'm using, generally Gold Dots, Buffalo Barnes, Cor Bon DPX or HST's, depending on what I'm carrying and am not necessarily looking to make a change, but am more curious than anything.

https://www.underwoodammo.com/9mm-luger-p-90-grain-xtreme-defender-1/

Technical Information
Caliber: 9mm Luger
Bullet Weight: 115 Grains
Bullet Style: Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defense
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1475 fps
Muzzle Energy: 435 ft. lbs.
Penetration" 16 inches
Click to expand...
Have you tried to use those instead of drill bit to make holes in concrete wall or perhaps driving in large phillis head screws in?
 
TomJ said:
I've seen gel tests from Lehigh's Penetrator ammunition. From what I've seen, their 9mm ammo tends to penetrate more than I'm comfortable with (22 to 32 inches). I received an e-mail from Underwood Ammunition today regarding their Xtreme Defender ammunition, which uses Lehigh's Defender bullet and seems to be a little different than the Penetrator. Their specs and link to their web site are pasted below. I can't find any other information on this round, and was wondering if anyone was familiar with it. I'm happy with the SD ammo I'm using, generally Gold Dots, Buffalo Barnes, Cor Bon DPX or HST's, depending on what I'm carrying and am not necessarily looking to make a change, but am more curious than anything.

https://www.underwoodammo.com/9mm-luger-p-90-grain-xtreme-defender-1/

Technical Information
Caliber: 9mm Luger
Bullet Weight: 115 Grains
Bullet Style: Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defense
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity: 1475 fps
Muzzle Energy: 435 ft. lbs.
Penetration" 16 inches
Click to expand...
The biggest problem I see in the Underwood link is that the 10% ballistic gelatin testing block should be at approximately 38°F. The tester began with a 44.4°F outside surface temperature. By the end of the test, surface temp was upwards of 55°F.....it's a bad test because the 10% ordnance gelatin is way too hot.
 
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