United Methodist Church 2008 Anti-Gun Resolution

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Well, I do salute you in your efforts. I knew many good PCUSA pastors. Two of my favorite pastors were PCUS. However, more recently, I did have problems with two, one who placed God's creation of the world on the same level as the Pueblo and Aztec stories from the pulpit (I was there, it was in Montevallo, AL) and another who allowed a member of the congregation to sell beauty products from the fellowship hall because she was sharing half of her profits with the church.

All the same, keep up the fight. I left because my voice seemed to be unwelcome. However, you do have my prayers in your efforts!

Ash
 
ASH,Yes,and I am not questioning anyone's right to switch for any reason which seems appropriate to them, but I think there is also much to be said for standing and fighting. Having said that I admit that at times the cause seems lost.
 
What happened to the other parts of the Bible that says "eye for an eye" and other passages that tell you it's not a sin to take up arms in your defense?

Religion that starts preaching politics from the pulpit loses it's status as religion in my book.`

Patton asked for a prayer for good weather to kill Germans during the Battle of the Bulge. I guess God picked sides that time.
 
Except that whole drinking and dancing thing and there are Missionary Baptists, Primative Baptists, Southern Baptists, Independent Baptists, Reformed Baptists...

;)

Ash
 
Thin Black Line wrote:


LOL, the former methodists chiming in on this thread are kind of making my
point on being that lone voice left in the UMC.

So where have most of you gone? Small independent churches or no where
now?
Click to expand...


I joined a Southern Baptist church.


While I applaud preachnut's arguement of standing and fighting, I found that it is truly pointless in the management structure of the UMC.

As I mentioned on THIS thread...


I discussed my concerns on RKBA issues with the bishop and was basically told to go screw myself.

On a seperate issue that was so severe that literally the entire doctire of the local church was highjacked by key persons in key positions, the bishop was no remedy.

It was explained to him that the MAJORITY was against the new issues, and my father was told by the bishop that is WASN'T a question of what the majority wanted. He said that if the members had a vote on those matters, we would be Congressional Methodist and not United Methodist.

My family, along with over 50% of the church did the exact same thing that I did-- left.

I think the bishop made it LOUD and clear what the "management" view of the peons is.

As I said earlier. When I am expected to have no voice, I will not have a presence there.

Any UMC members who wanted to know the details of what I just wrote, feel free to PM me.


-- John
 
Oh yeah, then there's that little bit in (I think?) Nehemiah about re-building the city wall with one hand and holding a sword in the other.
Click to expand...

+1

My people built the Nauvoo and/or Kirtland Temples with their swords and rifles hidden in the sawdust of the construction site.
 
I grew up in the Methodist church, but left it many years ago (1982 to be exact) for lots of reasons. This, if it had been a hot button then, would have been one of them. I am a member of a Conservative Baptist Association church now. I do not know if they have an official position on these things, but my pastor goes shooting with me, and has even carried alongside me when we were out together! He, as well as the elders of our church, are appreciative that I am there and armed every Sunday.
 
Wow, My church is very pro-gun. One Saturday we had about 25 of our congregation meet for a shooting day out in our local desert. There was easily about 60 guns there between the bunch of us. Shotguns, Pistols, Rimfires, Cowboy guns, Bolt rifles, an M14, a couple of AR's, an AK, a .500 S&W revolver, some Tannerite, etc, etc.
The Youth Leader just had "Airsoft Wars" in the church gym last Saturday night. There was about 25 teens there with all kinds or airsoft guns from the cheap clear spring pistols to high tech MP5 replicas.
Our senior Pastor is a big game hunter.
The Church I attend is a Baptist Church. And it is in Las Vegas, Nevada.
The Baptist Church I attended in Santa Clarita, CA (North of Los Angeles) Before I moved away from there also had alot of pro gun members. We went on a Mens Ministry weekend hike and out of about 15 guys at least half of them brought their handguns. There were quite a few LEOs that attended there at that church.
Too bad about the United Methodists, I'd rather be a "gun totin' Baptist".:D
 
A pastor we once had would go target shooting with me and another member who owned land in Louisiana. He owned a 20ga 870. He enjoyed shooting my M1 as well as Webley.

Ash
 
Some one asked if there are any major religions that are pro gun.

I would think that Mormons probably are. I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong but they believe the consitution is an inspired document and God was instrumental in the founding of this nation (cannot say I disagree there). As far as I am aware they apply that to all of the consitution.

Utah has some of the best gun and self defence laws in the nation and a fair number of CCW permit holders.

When I was a kid I went with some of my friends who were mormon on a church sponsored activity. We went shooting, we even shot evil black rifles and tacticool shotguns. In fact my dad went with his friend to take the mormon kids in our neighborhood shooting once. They were shooting hand guns, AKs, etc.

In terms of doctrine I believe that they believe strongly in ones right to protected themself and their loved ones.

Most mormons tend to be politicaly conservative.

Utah is one of the few states that allows ccw on campus on in schools. The mormon dominated legislature fought it out in court with the Univesity of Utah to assure those rights. Utahs attorney genral (is he mormon?) is a big advocate of guns rights.

John Browning was a mormon. The guys that own robinson arms and make the XCR I think are.

Based on the above evidence I would say they are pro gun. Maybe not supprisin considering they were oppressed very badly and even had a governor, of IL I believe, sign an extermination order. What is interesting is that law apparently wasn't removed from the books untill relatively recently or so I heard. This is part of the reason I wasn't worried about Romney.

They have become a church that officially has asked members not to carry in church but this was a result of a specific incident where any idiot had a ND in the church building and nearly struck a child. This is what I was told when I took the course for my Utah permit. I think it was more of an official liabilty thing. I know moromons who carry to church and it is not an issue at all apparenty.
 
this guy notes a percentage drop in relation to the us population occuring shortly after the United Methodist Church emerged:
http://www.ucmpage.org/articles/rwall.html

"What if Methodist Members continued to be 5.3% of population? The table below shows that if the Methodist Church had continued to maintain its level of membership at a constant 5.3% of the population as it was in 1970 that we would now have almost 15 million members. The actual loss in membership is about 22% since 1969, however, considering the drop to 3% of total US population from a high of 5.3% in 1970, there is an overall real decrease in membership exceeding 42%."

this was published in 2003 and his main thrust seemed to be to achieve an honest count of church members/ participants so that employee recruitment would reflect the actual membership rather than dated membership rolls or meretricious reporting of earlier figures.

He does not deal with reasons member ship is in a steady decline but thinks the church oligarchy should undertake a study. He thinks"hot button" issues -specifically sexual orientation might play a part but seems clueless about possible negative reaction to the anti americanism of the "leadership."

He also solicits comments.
 
How disappointing a decision like this is to me. I apparently focused too much on scripture and not enough on 'church office politics'.
 
I have been a life-long United Methodist and probably will be for this lifetime unless something dramatically changes. Remember that just because someone belongs to a particular group whether is it Republican, United Methodist, or NRA etc., does not necessarily mean that the individual holds every belief that the organization does.

So everyone subscribes fully to all the teachings and positions of the humans governing their religion? Not me, sorry. And I don't believe the ABA has any business taking many of the positions that the leadership has over the years. And I could pick a few bones with the NRA althought I've been a life member for 20-odd years. Take the good, leave the bad. They're all a mixed bag.
Click to expand...

There are several other responses like this one above. Don't judge a whole denomination just because some misguided leaders try to "make decisions for all of us" etc.
 
The LDS church's position on concealed carry in Utah is no carry in church. They are the only church in Utah that will not let you CC. And the state stands by it. Most of us with our CFP's that are members of the LDS faith do carry at church. If they find out you are asked to put it in your car or leave. If not you are in violation of trespass. But you can CC in any other LDS ward in other states, just not in Utah.
 
Thin Black Line wrote:



LOL, the former methodists chiming in on this thread are kind of making my
point on being that lone voice left in the UMC.

So where have most of you gone? Small independent churches or no where
now?
Click to expand...

As I said way back on post #... whatever.. in this thread, I am a current UMC member, was baptised into the UMC and am a Trustee of my church.
The Trustees control the physical facility and "run" the church. The pastor is sent from the UMC and not hired directly by us.

As a matter of fact one of the reasons I stay a Trustee is because the Trustees are who decides things like, who is allowed to carry concealed in the church- and although the pastor forced through a measure saying he did not want members carrying concealed since guns and killing were (to him) an affront to UMC and God... :rolleyes: as a Trustee I can give myself permission to carry.
Sophistry? Probably. But I like the pure simplicity of sophistry as opposed to the machinations of ignorant minds.
 
okay, wel, this seems like a hot thread with a lot of informed people so i will pose a question that has been floating around in my head for a while.
i was raised in a non christian home. i managed to pick up some faith along the way. i attended a baptist church for a couple years but it seeemed to change slowly but surely. a little more bass guitars, drums, and singing, a little less preaching and learning.
at this point i am non denominational, but would still like to attend church for fellowship and study with some like minded individuals.
are there any conservative, nondenominational, bible centric churches left? there are so many, i havn't a clue where to start.
 
This is my favorite "whereas":
WHEREAS: a recent survey, by Greenberg Research, demonstrated that most Pennsylvanians
(70%) support enactment of a One Handgun A Month law, and almost all Pennsylvanians (96%)
support a law to require the reporting of lost or stolen handguns.
Click to expand...

So...the popularity of a belief makes it right? Does that mean that Christians should accept premarital sex as okay? Sure, the Bible is against it, but I bet a survey of Pennsylvanians would disagree! Or taking the Lord's name in vain? Or coveting your neighbors...oh, wait, everybody accepted that one long ago when they voted in the income tax. But I digress...

Some years ago, my ex and I (both Methodists, then) got married in Northern Michigan and had our reception in an area that used to be a Methodist retreat. We couldn't have live music or serve alcohol after 10:30pm because of the blue laws still on the books there. Amazing how the church has changed.

I'm not a Methodist anymore (or anything else for that matter), but I have watched with amusement as the UMC has tossed overboard every tenet they held in an attempt to appeal to everyone. They're like that girl in high school who goes from being mousy but nice, to being a drunk, promiscuous party girl. Or that guy who morphs from a clean-cut honor student into a hipster wannabe fashion disaster. It seems like they're new motto should be: "The United Methodist Church: Changing the Bible in a desperate attempt to become more popular!" Very sad.
 
are there any conservative, nondenominational, bible centric churches left? there are so many, i havn't a clue where to start.
Click to expand...

Careful, if you find one and join it you might get labeled a religious fanatic. The Bible itself is full of such hate-filled, judgemental concepts as:

Thou shalt not commit adultery. (Ex. 20:14)
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. (Ex. 20:17)
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (Lev. 20:13

I mean, once you cross that line and say something's wrong and that it's immoral to do whatever feels good, you'll be accused of "hate speech". :rolleyes:

Why is it that Christians can be accused of hate speech but no other religion ever is? Must be that "diversity" thing. :banghead:

ETA:

A lot of folks have no problem ignoring the things in the Bible that are unfashionable or that make them uncomfortable. By extension, it's no great surprise when they ignore those same sorts of "inconvenient" things in the Constitution, like the 2nd Amendment.
 
Separation of church and state.
Separation of economy and state.
Right to life, right to property, right to liberty.

This stuff was figured out by Aristotle what, 2500 years ago? Come on.
 
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