UPDATE on tenn church shooting.

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Wow first i've read of someone taking shots and being a human shield!

Here in South Carolina we have to have permission from our pastor to carry in church. Being close friends with my pastor, I did'nt even have to ask, knowing that i carry he requested that i carry concealed while at church. I would like to here more on Church carry. Whats everyones thoughts on it?
 
Now a 2nd fatality from the shooting:
http://www.volunteertv.com/home/headlines/25960934.html


Also, regarding the shooter...

A neighbor who says she has known church shooting suspect Jim D. Adkisson, 58, for a few years tells Volunteer TV's Stephen McLamb that Adkisson has a problem with religion that stems from a childhood of being forced to attend church by his parents. The neighbor says Adkisson believes the Bible contradicts itself.
 
Whats everyones thoughts on it?

In the little isolated country church that I attended before moving 3 years ago...the pastor had a .38 Special revolver behind the pulpit, and he...like yours...asked me to carry whenever I was there. I suspect that a few others carried, too. One old farmer in particular was and is known for his lifelong habit of carrying a revolver in his bibs at all times...which he wore to church. If I had to put money on it...I'd bet that didn't change on Sunday.

There are people who have no respect for anything or anybody...including a church congregation. Makes more sense to carry to church than not.
 
I attend a small church of maybe 150-200 on the California coast. Just straight up no hype , no excitment bible preaching to a mixed race crowd.The church is attached to a medium sized drug and alchohol rehab center that my son in law runs and my wife is the dietician.Lots of ex cons and whacked out street people in attendance but they are 99.4% sober, BUT I CCW my Glock 26 or My Colt Officers .45 with my reservist badge! Just in case but zero incidents in 10 years! Praise the Lord.
 
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/jul/27/church-shooting-leaves-several-injured/

I live in Knoxville.

I've attended services at the TVUUC.

I have shooting buddies that are members of the congregation.

This madman came in during a children's play, not the Sunday service.

Why this happened is still unknown and may not make any sense when it is.

What happened is pretty clear.

Church shooting: 2nd victim dies; authorities search accused man's house

A second victim has died from this morning's shooting at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church.

Linda Kraeger, 61, died this evening at the University of Tennessee Medical Center, according to City of Knoxville spokesman Randy Kenner.

She attended Westside Unitarian Universalist Church in Farragut and was visiting the Kingston Pike church to watch the children's play.

A church member, Greg McKendry, 60, was killed when he confronted the gunman as he entered the church.

Jim D. Adkisson, 58, of Powell has been charged with first-degree in the death of McKendry.

Knoxville police, the Knoxville Police Department bomb squad and FBI agents are executing a search warrant at Adkisson's house, 1919 Levy Road.

The presence of the bomb squad is precautionary, according to authorities, and the FBI is providing investigative support.

Adkisson is being held on a $1 million bond at the Knox County Detention Facility in the death of McKendry.

Adkisson is accused of opening fire during a children's play, shooting eight people with a 12-gauge shotgun, according to Knoxville Police Chief Sterling P. Owen IV.

Seven of the wounded were taken to the University of Tennessee Medical Center, according to spokeswoman Becky Thompson.

All were adults: four women and three men.

Earlier today, some of those patients were listed in critical and serious condition.

Another victim was trampled and was treated and released at a hospital, Owen said during a press conference this afternoon.

McKendry confronted the gunman during a children's presentation of the musical, "Annie Jr!"

"He was the first person he encountered," according to Owen.

"Greg McKendry stood in the front of the gunman and took the blast to protect the rest of us," witness Barbara Kemper said.

"Make sure everyone knows that Greg McKendry was a hero, a total hero," Taylor Bessette said of the man who has been his foster father just a few months.

The gunman was described as having no connection to the church and was taken into custody within minutes of the shooting, according to Owen, and no motive was immediately available.

The church is located just west of the University of Tennessee.

Police dispatchers received a report of the shooting at 10:18 a.m. and took a man into custody at 10:22 a.m.

He was carrying the shotgun and had some sort of bag with extra ammunition, according to authorities.

The FBI is assisting in the investigation, Owen said, "In the event it turns out to be a hate crime."

Owen said when authorities learned of the shooting, police officers were sent to other churches to provide security.

"We've gone to some in the county and in other counties as well," Owen said. He declined to identify the churches targeted for additional security, however, the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church was a strong proponent of gay rights in the community.

The chief declined to release the suspect's name but said the shooter lives in the Knoxville area.

"We want to make sure we have all the places covered that he frequents before others start heading out to talk to some of these people," Owen said.

Asked about the children who were performing, Owen said the shooting was "in sight of them and all the people shot were in the line of fire."

McKendry's foster son Taylor was a member of the cast, getting ready to take the stage and said the shooter was carrying a guitar case.

Church member John Bohstedt said in addition to the guitar case, the gunman carried a smaller case that could have been a photo bag. Bohstedt said the man took a shotgun out, walked to the back door on the right back corner of the sanctuary and took two shots,

Kemper said the gunman walked into the side of the sanctuary after firing one shot from a hallway.

She said the gunman was yelling "hateful things" and was wearing a red, white and blue T-shirt.

"He looked like bad guy." Kemper said.

The gunman was shooting indiscriminately, Kemper said. She said at least four shotgun blasts were fired on the Second Presbyterian side of the church.

She said church members who were in the play, Bohstedt and Terry Uselton, jumped on the gunman and restrained him.

Members began telling McKendry to take a breath.

Kemper tried to comfort a little boy whose mother had been shot in the head. She said there was a handprint of blood on the back of the boys's shirt.

Religious Education Director Brian Griffin stepped forward and oversaw efforts to calm the crowd and talk to authorities, witness Ted Lollis said.

"Everybody is shocked," Lollis said, but "there was a lot of heroics."

After the shooting and after the gunman was restrained, all the members of the church left out the doors behind the front of the sanctuary.

Drevik said he saw three men and two women with gunshot wounds, described as shotgun pellets to the scalp.

The suspect was taken to KPD's headquarters on the third floor of the Safety Building downtown where he is being interviewed, according to Owen.

"The church was full," police Lt. Jerry Armstrong said.

The musical was a culmination of a summer theater workshop conducted by the Church Music Director, Vicki Masters.

According to Lollis, congregants were expecting the unexpected in the inter-generational service because it was a children's performance.

Masters reportedly turned around with a look of horror on her face and started running towards the sounds.

Everyone was "wrapped up listening to these kids because they were doing a great job," said witness Sheila Bowen, a retired nurse who delivered babies.

She said she heard six or seven shots.

"Oh my God, they were so loud," she said.

At first she said she thought the loud noises might have been part of the play.

She said she heard a man say "get out, get out of here."

She did not see the suspect because "he was on the ground and a really strong hefty guy had him pinned down."

Church minister the Rev. Chris Buice, who was on vacation in Asheville, N. C. at the time of the shooting, stood outside the church today and asked for the public's prayers.

"We have been touched by a horrible act of violence," Buice said.

Leigh Ann Dickert, who lives next door to the church, said when she first heard the shots, she thought the church was having some kind of race and the screams were cheers.

When the cheering went on too long she said she realized they were screams. She looked out her window and saw people running through the parking lot.

Dickert said she went up to one of the parishioners who told her that a man came into the church with a shotgun concealed in a guitar case.

The man apparently walked up to another man in the back of the church, shot him "point blank, right there" and then opened fire on the crowd, she said.

The man was tackled when he paused to reload.

By early afternoon, about five police chaplains were on the scene, the Knoxville chapter of the American Red Cross was providing water, and witnesses continued to be questioned inside the church building.

Members who were not witnesses were being permitted to leave the grounds.

"The Red Cross is … providing counseling and meals to all the personnel that are there, congregation and emergency service workers," Knoxville Fire Department Capt. Brent Seymour said. KFD provides first-responder emergency services and sent three vehicles to the scene immediately. An on-call EMS worker was on the nearby Cumberland Avenue Strip, heard the call and went to the church as well, Seymour said.

The Red Cross is "bringing in mental health workers for anyone who wishes to talk."

Shortly after 1 p.m., members of the Red Cross walked into the church with their arms filled with teddy bears. Bears are often used to comfort children.

The church's minister, the Rev. Chris Buice, was on vacation in Asheville, N.C., and drove immediately back when he was notified of the shooting.

"Greg McKendry - we loved him," Buice said, his eyes filling with tears at the afternoon press conference.

"We loved Greg McKendry, please pray for this congregation because we are grieving the loss of a wonderful man."

In a statement, Mayor Bill Haslam said, "Today Knoxville suffered a tragedy. Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims, their families and the church community," Mayor Bill Haslam said in a statement.

A special meeting has been called at 6 p.m. Westside Unitarian Universalist Church, 616 Fretz Road in Farragut, to update members of the church on the events and "help us deal with this tragedy," according to a church e-mail.

In an e-mail Bohstedt stated. "As far as we know, this has nothing to do with the church. the production, personal conflicts or anything else. Please, let's not speculate." He asked, "Let us all pray for the victims, including the children that were traumatized by this terrible event. Church leaders did a fine job of helping people come together. Blessings on us all- a very tragic day for our blessed community."
 
Unitarian Universalist churches are pretty leftist, which they would call progressive but usually a little bit right of Chairman Mao. I doubt they'd even consider allowing CCW in their church.

With that said, I suspect that unless a congregate with a CCW was in the rear of the church at the time he/she would have no way to engage the active shooter with all the badlam, the church was standing room only.
 
Wow a whole 8 post before someone is already starting this thread down the same path as the other one.

My sympathies to the Families and friends of the people injured and killed.
 
Police are searching the shooter's apartment. He has no real property in Knox County and is a tenant in a duplex at 1919 Levy Road,Powell,TN.

You can get a street view of the duplex if you paste into google maps.
 
Just goes to show that nowhere is safe from this kind of violence. I am glad that there were men there with the courage to confront this madman and stop him before it got worse than it did.
 
Posted by hso:
I live in Knoxville. I've attended services at the TVUUC. I have shooting buddies that are members of the congregation.

The TVUUC is an official member of the Unitarian Universalist Association, as documented here:
http://www.uua.org/aboutus/findcongregation/results.php?state=TN

The Unitarian Universalist Association's official stance on gun control, as documented here:
http://www.uua.org/socialjustice/socialjustice/statements/14420.shtml

"Gun Control

1991 General Resolution

BECAUSE Unitarian Universalists affirm the inherent worth of every human life; and

BECAUSE safe coexistence within society requires reasonable compromise with the concept of absolute personal liberty; and

WHEREAS the General Assembly of the Unitarian Universalist Association passed, in 1972, a resolution advocating mandatory licensing for the purchase and possession of all usable guns and, in 1976, a resolution urging the passage of legislation restricting the ownership or possession of handguns;

WHEREAS in the United States legislation regarding firearms varies widely from state to state;

WHEREAS according to the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) in a report covering the period 1986-1988:

1. firearms are a leading cause of accidental death among children ages 14 and under in the United States;
2. an estimated 130 million firearms exist in the United States, one for every two households;
3. and
4. every year there are over 1 million "gun incidents," including nearly 11,000 murders involving firearms, 15,000 suicides, 1,900 accidental deaths, 175,000 criminal assaults committed with firearms, 221,000 armed robberies, 90,000 forcible rapes, and over 200,000 gun-related injuries;

WHEREAS many consumer products sold in North America are regulated to protect the public from hazards associated with their use; and

WHEREAS machine guns and semi-automatic and automatic assault weapons are highly powerful weapons designed for the efficient destruction of life;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the Unitarian Universalist Association, its member congregations, and individual Unitarian Universalists be encouraged to petition legislators to enact and support laws such as:

1. the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1991 (HR7) in the United States, which is intended to place nationally uniform, effective limitations on individual possession of
2. handguns, including waiting periods, licensing, and registration;
3. the "Mitchell Compromise"; and
4. Bill C-80 (1991) in Canada, which is intended to make the purchase of firearms more difficult;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Unitarian Universalist Association, its member congregations, and individual Unitarian Universalists be urged to petition legislators to include safety training programs as a mandatory condition that must be met before firearms can be owned and used; and

BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED that the Unitarian Universalist Association, its member congregations, and individual Unitarian Universalists in the United States be urged to petition legislators to enact and support laws banning private ownership or use of machine guns and semi-automatic and automatic assault weapons.

Last updated on Wednesday, March 28, 2007."
 
Yep, that's the official postion, but there is a chartered gun club for Unitarian Universalists in Ft. Lauderdale.
http://uucfl.org/gunclub/index.htm

Make no mistake that UUA is very politcally and socially active, and well-within their rights to do so, regardless of those who would hoist the flag for separation of church and state.
 
1. firearms are a leading cause of accidental death among children ages 14 and under in the United States;
2. an estimated 130 million firearms exist in the United States, one for every two households;
3. and
4. every year there are over 1 million "gun incidents," including nearly 11,000 murders involving firearms, 15,000 suicides, 1,900 accidental deaths, 175,000 criminal assaults committed with firearms, 221,000 armed robberies, 90,000 forcible rapes, and over 200,000 gun-related injuries;
Anybody else think these numbers are trumped up, or at least very misleading? 90,000 forceable rapes involving firearms in just 2 years?Also, I thought drownng was the number 1 killer of children? And 200,000 gun related injuries in 2 years? Maybe thats all correct, but it sure doesnt sound right to me, especially the firearm related rapes and children parts. Wonder if they got the stats from some anti-gun group as oppossed to the FBI and/or CDC and got suckered into believing they were true...

Other than that, getting sick of whackos shooting up malls, churches and schools. If you want to go out in a blaze of glory, be a man and try that crap on a Marine base or a police station or something.Cowards.:cuss:
 
Lets keep it high road,

Does not matter WHO it is, I am sorry there was a shooting at the church that killed two people. My they rest in peace.

apparently he used a shotgun, which is good for those who enjoy the 2nd amendment as that will derail most anti-gun issues, he did not use EBR or a handgun.
 
Summer carry at church with a PT-111 in a pancake has become a little bit of a challenge for a guy like me who doesn't like to wear untucked shirts. If the shirts got tails, I tuck it in.

Unfortunately I only have one "camp" style shirt that would suit my personal dress code for church.....and I've now worn it three Sundays in a row. :eek:

I asked my lovely wife last Sunday if she could tell that I was carrying, and she replied that she only knew that I was because I was wearing an untucked shirt.

So last night she get's back from grocery shopping at Wally world (not having yet seen the news headlines) and announces that she got three nice camp style shirts on clearance for $7.50/ea.

I think it's safe to say she gets it! ;)
 
It's really a nice proof of the argument that many make over in S&T that it really is software over hardware. The guy was subdued and hauled off to stand trial.

It's a tragedy for sure though.

Hopefully, lives in other churches/holy places will be saved as a result of the lives lost in this shooting with others noticing and being more vigilant.
 
The neighbor says Adkisson believes the Bible contradicts itself.

Indeed it does, but does that require a shooting rampage?? :rolleyes:

My wife gives me grief sometimes about carrying to church, but I do it anyway. Usually an SP101 or LCP. I also sit in the back of the church (I'm a Baptist afterall :D). I don't do this for any strategic advantage, just because of habit and preference.
 
Adkisson is being held on a $1 million bond at the Knox County Detention Facility in the death of McKendry.


Adkisson is accused of opening fire during a children's play, shooting eight people with a 12-gauge shotgun, according to Knoxville Police Chief Sterling P. Owen IV.

These two things do not compute. Rampage shooting and the guy is eligible for bail?? So if he came up with 100,000.00 he could post the 10% required and be bonded out.

That's insane.
 
These two things do not compute. Rampage shooting and the guy is eligible for bail?? So if he came up with 100,000.00 he could post the 10% required and be bonded out.

That's insane.

I am speechless myself...makes me tempted to go and finishing buying my handgun...today...
 
Why this happened is still unknown and may not make any sense when it is.

KPD is reporting they found a letter in the car, that indicated he chose that church because it was liberal and had received press recently for its acceptance of gays.
 
These two things do not compute. Rampage shooting and the guy is eligible for bail?? So if he came up with 100,000.00 he could post the 10% required and be bonded out.

The changes of someone posting his bail in Knoxville is as likely as his being elected mayor. Actually, given the state of politics around here, he's more likely to be elected mayor than being bailed out.
 
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