Varget vs IMR4064

[elktrout]

What is the difference between these two powders? Many years ago, when I hunted whitetails, I used

IMR4064 with Hornady 150s with excellent results in my 30-06. Is Varget a good option? Is it one of the EXTREME series?

 

[Hugger-4641]

What is the difference between these two powders? Many years ago, when I hunted whitetails, I used

IMR4064 with Hornady 150s with excellent results in my 30-06. Is Varget a good option? Is it one of the EXTREME series?

Varget is more temperature stable and just a little slower, so you may like it a little better for the heavier bullets in 30-06 like 180's. With 150's, the temperature stability and metering are probably the biggest benefits.

 

[Megawatt maker]

I've found that Varget and 4064 are very near interchangeable, with slight load differences of coarse.

I have formulas for both using the same bullets and primers, for several different calibers.
It's come in handy with the current unpredictable component shortages as of late.

The only real difference I've found..other than the grain or two difference I load weight between them is...4064 doesn't seem to be effected by different primers. All brands work just fine with it.

Varget, on the other hand...while does OK with Federal, Winchester and CCI...it really loves Remington primers for some reason. Rem 9 1/2 for 308, 30/06' 8MM Mauser, 7.62 Russian..

For 223/556 Remington 7 1/2s are simply SUPREME! NOTHING ELSE works nearly as well..don't know what it is..but there is no doubt about it.

Oh..while on the subject...Varget is just fine for the M1 Garand and M1A. Varget is faster than BLC2..and BLC2 is on the "approved" powder list for both those rifles...

 

[Laphroaig]

While I agree that Varget isn't the smoothest powder to throw charges from a measure, it can be done. I throw all of my Varget charges without many problems.

4064 kernels are so big I wouldn't even try.

They are both in similar territory on burn rate charts. I still load .308 from an old metal can of 4064 that I have.

 

[MikeInOr]

What is the difference between these two powders? Many years ago, when I hunted whitetails, I used

IMR4064 with Hornady 150s with excellent results in my 30-06. Is Varget a good option? Is it one of the EXTREME series?

Years ago I switched from IMR 4064 to Varget for the majority of my rifle loads. The biggest difference for me was that Varget meters better through my Dillon powder measures than 4064 so I get a more consistent charge. Throwing charges is fine for hunting and practice. I weigh individual charges for target ammo.

 

[Chief TC]

I use both. In general I find IMR4064 is one grain more than Varget for the same velocity. I have had some differing experiences that some of the other posters. I think they are about equal in performance from what I can tell with my rifles. Varget is more expensive. I am actually trying to dial in my rifles with AA4064. It is cheaper and seems to work great in everything I am reloading. So far, I am getting great results with AA4064.

 

[lightman]

I use both and consider them about equal. Charge weights vary slightly and recommended publish load data should be followed. Varget meters somewhat better than 4064 but anything that I'm likely to use either of these in gets scale weighed charges anyway so metering well is a mute point for me.

 

[Howa 9700]

I load for 308 Win, and use both 4064 and Varget. Don't load for 30-06, but was led to believe that good if not better alternatives for 06 was one of the 4350's, with IMR 4350 at the top of the list.

 

[.45Coltguy]

IMR 4064 and Varget are both very good powders. I used/use IMR 4064 in 30-06 with 150gr spire point bullets, 7x57 Mauser with 139gr spire point and 22-250 with 55gr bthp bullets.
Varget was used in 22-250 also. Worked well, just couldn't quite beat 4064. These were my findings in my rifles.

 

[Blue68f100]

Varget is a Extreme powder. Not sure if 4064 is or not.

 

[Thomasss]

You may find variations from lot to lot using Varget. But it's still a very good temperature insensitive powder . I use it mostly in my Garand and when powders were in short supply, it worked out very well as a 4350 substitute for deer hunting. It's also good for making reduced youth loads.

 

[entropy]

I like Varget in .223 better than IMR4064. IMR 4064 is a good all around powder though, particularly for .30 cal. cartridges. I've used it in .30-06, .30-30, 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R, as well as .223.

 

[Chief TC]

You may find variations from lot to lot using Varget. But it's still a very good temperature insensitive powder . I use it mostly in my Garand and when powders were in short supply, it worked out very well as a 4350 substitute for deer hunting. It's also good for making reduced youth loads.

I assume all powder lots vary but do you think Varget seems to vary more than others?

 

[Megawatt maker]

I assume all powder lots vary but do you think Varget seems to vary more than others?

This is true. Of all powders, Varget does seem to vary lot to lot more than others. In the past, when I'd buy a pound or two, and make loads using those...and use up the powder. Later, after buying a few pounds from a different lot..and loading it using my previous lots data..the results were indeed..different..some times by a good bit.

The remedy to this...even though it's said to be a bad idea....I mix all lots together. As a person rule..I keep 8 pounds on hand, and as I use it..I'll mix in new purchases in the keg and make sure it's well blended. I've found this to produce pretty consistent results.

That's just the nature of Varget. Yes..I'm very aware of the risks of mixing lots. If a lot ever gets recalled..and its one I have mixed in, I'll dump it all in the garden. I also extremely cautious only to make sure it Varget I'm mixing with Varget.

 

[anothernewb]

I am unable to tell load performance between them at my skill level.
4064 was on the shelves when varget wasn't and at a significantly reduced cost. good enough for me.

I debate back and forth whether or not it is a good thing or a bad thing that my savage 308 has the same accuracy with every powder I have tried in it. varget, 4064, 2460, 2520, RL15, H335, BLC2, W748. 150, or 168s. They all shoot about the same for me. POI vs POA varies - but always within a little over MOA. Same as FGMM match.

 

[hdwhit]

Thanks, everyone who posted.

I load .223/5.56 and I've been sitting on four pounds of IMR 4064, since it was all I could get back in the 2000's "drought" and I've been looking for support in its use.

 

[Chief TC]

This is true. Of all powders, Varget does seem to vary lot to lot more than others. In the past, when I'd buy a pound or two, and make loads using those...and use up the powder. Later, after buying a few pounds from a different lot..and loading it using my previous lots data..the results were indeed..different..some times by a good bit.

The remedy to this...even though it's said to be a bad idea....I mix all lots together. As a person rule..I keep 8 pounds on hand, and as I use it..I'll mix in new purchases in the keg and make sure it's well blended. I've found this to produce pretty consistent results.

That's just the nature of Varget. Yes..I'm very aware of the risks of mixing lots. If a lot ever gets recalled..and its one I have mixed in, I'll dump it all in the garden. I also extremely cautious only to make sure it Varget I'm mixing with Varget.

Thanks a lot. I didn't realize there was so much variance in Varget. I will keep that in mind.

 

[Megawatt maker]

Thanks, everyone who posted.

I load .223/5.56 and I've been sitting on four pounds of IMR 4064, since it was all I could get back in the 2000's "drought" and I've been looking for support in its use.

While it does work in 223, the problem with 4064 is the large size of the powder itself. It's rather hard to get it to fit into the 223/556 case. Even with a drop tube..it's nor very easy to get a max load to fit..or even any load approaching max. That's why I prefer Varget in 223. Smaller powder, max loads fit easier (compressed loads mind you..but not much a problem). Of coarse, if you are using 62 grain..or 55 grains..this is less a problem.

 

[elktrout]

Thanks for your replies. I will try Varget. I only have a limited supply of 4064 anyway.

 

[TEXASJD]

Varget is my favorite powder for 308, it does vary lot to lot quite a bit. One of the main reasons at the top end of 308 loads that I work up on hot days my point of impact won’t shift on a cold day much. 4064 is a bit more temperature sensitive. It does ok in 06 with 150s on mid range

 

[jmr40]

Varget is a great powder for 308. It doesn't have the best burn rate for 30-06. It is usable as long as you stay with 150 gr bullets , but there are simply better 30-06 options, especially if you move up to 165 or 180 gr bullets.

You'll get better performance with your 30-06 using one of the 4350 powders. The H4350 version is more stable in a wide range of temperatures and I prefer it only for that reason. I've done just as well with IMR4350. Load data is close, but not interchangeable.

If you can't find those RE17 is another good 30-06 choice as is Ramshot Big Game.

4064 is an old school very versatile powder. I have gotten very good accuracy with it in 308 and once again it is acceptable in 30-06, but not the best choice. It is much more affected by temperature than newer powders. But it is usually available and priced better. I use a lot of it for loads that I only intend to use at the range. I prefer Varget for my 308 hunting loads and as said H4350 for my hunting 30-06 loads.

H4350 is considered THE powder for 6.5 CM and I also use it for that cartridge. But that is also why it can be harder to find right now.

 

[Chief TC]

Varget is a great powder for 308. It doesn't have the best burn rate for 30-06. It is usable as long as you stay with 150 gr bullets , but there are simply better 30-06 options, especially if you move up to 165 or 180 gr bullets.

You'll get better performance with your 30-06 using one of the 4350 powders. The H4350 version is more stable in a wide range of temperatures and I prefer it only for that reason. I've done just as well with IMR4350. Load data is close, but not interchangeable.

If you can't find those RE17 is another good 30-06 choice as is Ramshot Big Game.

4064 is an old school very versatile powder. I have gotten very good accuracy with it in 308 and once again it is acceptable in 30-06, but not the best choice. It is much more affected by temperature than newer powders. But it is usually available and priced better. I use a lot of it for loads that I only intend to use at the range. I prefer Varget for my 308 hunting loads and as said H4350 for my hunting 30-06 loads.

H4350 is considered THE powder for 6.5 CM and I also use it for that cartridge. But that is also why it can be harder to find right now.

Thanks for posting this. I don't use 150s. I started with Varget and find it to work great but IMR4064 is a touch better and I am also finding AA4064 to be outstanding as well. If I can come across 4350 for my 168, 178 and 180 bullets I will definitely try it.

 

[Poper]

You can take what jmr40 said to the bank.
I have and use IMR4064, IMR 4350, IMR 4831 and Varget for 75%+ of my bottle neck rifle loadings.
In my experience, .308 Win. gets Varget first and IMR 4064 second with bullet weights up to 168 gr. IMR 4350 with bullet weights of 170 gr up to 180 gr. Anything heavier goes in the .30-06.
.30-06 gets IMR 4350 for bullets from 150 gr to 190 gr. 200 gr and above get IMR 4831.
Varget is awesome in the 6.5 x55 Swede up to 140 gr bullets with IMR 4831 being outstanding with 140 gr and heavier bullets.
Varget also works very well in .243 Win, & 6mm Creedmoor.

Overall, Varget is a very good choice for most rifle cartridges. The old standbys of IMR 4064, IMR 4350 and IMR 4831 are really tough to beat, though. Find what your rifle likes and buy an 8lb. jug.
But there will always be us old guys that just plain like to putter around in the loading shop so we will buy a powder, try it and end up going back to our old favorites.

 

[Chief TC]

You can take what jmr40 said to the bank.
I have and use IMR4064, IMR 4350, IMR 4831 and Varget for 75%+ of my bottle neck rifle loadings.
In my experience, .308 Win. gets Varget first and IMR 4064 second with bullet weights up to 168 gr. IMR 4350 with bullet weights of 170 gr up to 180 gr. Anything heavier goes in the .30-06.
.30-06 gets IMR 4350 for bullets from 150 gr to 190 gr. 200 gr and above get IMR 4831.
Varget is awesome in the 6.5 x55 Swede up to 140 gr bullets with IMR 4831 being outstanding with 140 gr and heavier bullets.
Varget also works very well in .243 Win, & 6mm Creedmoor.

Overall, Varget is a very good choice for most rifle cartridges. The old standbys of IMR 4064, IMR 4350 and IMR 4831 are really tough to beat, though. Find what your rifle likes and buy an 8lb. jug.
But there will always be us old guys that just plain like to putter around in the loading shop so we will buy a powder, try it and end up going back to our old favorites.

I've been using Varget in my 6.5 Swede rounds but will experiment with IMR4350 and AA4350 as well. Thanks for detailed post!

 

[2ndtimer]

FWIW, I am one of the few who haven’t shared the positive Varget experience. IMR-4064 has provided better accuracy for me in .308 Win and worked well years ago in .30-06 with 150 gr bullets.
In my old Howa 6.5x55, IMR-4064 and Sierra 120 gr Pro Hunters was the most consistent load I found (contrary to the slower powder heavier bullets that most people recommend).
Also had positive results in 30-06 150 gr bullet loads with IMR-4895 and Accurate 2700, with 2700 giving the highest velocity out of the 20” barrel.
Out of curiosity, I grabbed an 8 lb keg of Shooters World Precision Rifle powder a while back (before it jumped in price). Many refer to it as the Czech Varget, as it claims to be temperature insensitive. I find it runs better through my Uni-Flow powder measure than Varget and works well with heavy bullet .223 loads. I haven’t tried it yet in .308 Win, but anticipate it should be decent, but will be surprised if it outperforms IMR-4064.