Vermont AFL-CIO releases pro-gun rights statement

[Ivy Mike]

https://vtdigger.org/2021/09/21/sta...-rights-to-counter-rise-in-domestic-extremism.


“We all know that the dangerous, violent, extreme right is armed to the teeth, and there is no law that can be passed on the state or federal level that would reverse that fact,” Van Deusen said Tuesday.

And if militant groups become a threat in Vermont, he said, union members and their allies will be prepared to “take reasonable measures” to ensure people are kept safe.

People of color, immigrants, the working class and low-income communities are most at risk of attacks by fascists, white supremacists and individual extremists, according to the two-page resolution.

This policy means that the Vermont AFL-CIO, which has a lobbying arm in the Statehouse, will “actively oppose any unreasonable gun control measures,” Van Deusen said."

About time more of my brothers and sisters on the left publicly embrace their gun rights. Gun Rights = Minority Rights

 

[Robert]

Well, except, this is aimed at us. We, conservative gun owners, are the enemy in their eyes.

 

[toivo]

Well, except, this is aimed at us. We, conservative gun owners, are the enemy in their eyes.

It's not aimed at us -- we're not dangerous and violent.

 

[DeepSouth]

It's not aimed at us -- we're not dangerous and violent.

Ask them, not us.
You may well get a different answer.

 

[Robert]

Antifa also made calls for people to arm themselves...

 

[edwardware]

Well, except, this is aimed at us. We, conservative gun owners, are the enemy in their eyes.

Given the persistent efforts of the left to equate "conservatism" (defined broadly) with white supremacy, hate speech, fascism, and domestic terrorism, it's clear to me that when they use those terms they are talking about me. The fact that some enlightened soul has noticed that an armed man is less likely to be a victim doesn't really change that.

You should not necessarily take your enemies literally; you should always take them seriously.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Ask them, not us.
You may well get a different answer.

Ask me. I am one of them.
Law abiding gun owner is a fine thing in my far left opinion. Radical nuts like Holden Matthews who firebomb churches are the ones I'm concerned with.

 

[DeepSouth]

Ask me. I am one of them.
Law abiding gun owner is a fine thing in my far left opinion. Radical nuts like Holden Matthews who firebomb churches are the ones I'm concerned with.

But is your opinion the majority opinion?

It’s certainly not the opinion of the ones that get the attention, namely the ones that stay in front of cameras. They seem to be the majority, but I do understand perception can differ from reality.

 

[toivo]

It’s certainly not the opinion of the ones that get the attention, namely the ones that stay in front of cameras. They seem to be the majority, but I do understand perception can differ from reality.

I don't think the ones who stay in front of the cameras are the majority in ANY group. They're just the attention-grubbers, and IMO usually the most extreme.

 

[Ivy Mike]

But is your opinion the majority opinion?

It’s certainly not the opinion of the ones that get the attention, namely the ones that stay in front of cameras. They seem to be the majority, but I do understand perception can differ from reality.

I can't speak for everyone but I can tell you that America's far left is probably more on-board with you than you might think. The biggest hurdles are ones that aren't actually all that tall. You have to remember though that American Liberals are NOT far left.

We (the far left) don't generally care much for liberals like Biden and Pelosi, whom many of us see as nothing more than the same corporate crony politicians as McConnell and any of the Bush family. Biden is a 70s Republican IMHO. The push of the Republican party towards the far right makes him seem more center left than he really is. Pelosi is a rich liberal living in San Francisco. I couldn't afford a house in the ****tiest part of the tenderloin district if I mortgaged myself to my eyeballs and sold a kidney. She has nothing in common with me.
Even the beloved Bernie Sanders isn't a Socialist as he claims, but is really a New Deal Democrat. It's just that in today's political climate, he sounds a lot more left than he is. Actual socialists don't care for Sanders' desire to preserve capitalism and make it work for everyone and would seek revolutionary change to eliminate capitalism entirely.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Antifa also made calls for people to arm themselves...

Yes they did, and they were generally facing groups of armed Proud Boys on a regular basis.
Black Panthers also armed themselves and were rewarded with the Mulford Act for their trouble.

 

[DeepSouth]

I can't speak for everyone but I can tell you that America's far left is probably more on-board with you than you might think. The biggest hurdles are ones that aren't actually all that tall. You have to remember though that American Liberals are NOT far left.

We (the far left) don't generally care much for liberals like Biden and Pelosi, whom many of us see as nothing more than the same corporate crony politicians as McConnell and any of the Bush family. Biden is a 70s Republican IMHO. The push of the Republican party towards the far right makes him seem more center left than he really is. Pelosi is a rich liberal living in San Francisco. I couldn't afford a house in the ****tiest part of the tenderloin district if I mortgaged myself to my eyeballs and sold a kidney. She has nothing in common with me.
Even the beloved Bernie Sanders isn't a Socialist as he claims, but is really a New Deal Democrat. It's just that in today's political climate, he sounds a lot more left than he is. Actual socialists don't care for Sanders' desire to preserve capitalism and make it work for everyone and would seek revolutionary change to eliminate capitalism entirely.

I was speaking specifically about the general opinion on guns, the political stuff is not high road material nor do I really care the be honest.

It appears, at least to me, most (a majority) leftward people seem to hate us conservative gun owners. I could admittedly be wrong, I know very few leftists to have honest conversations with.

 

[Ivy Mike]

you did tell someone to ask "them". I was trying to give you some sense of what the left actually looks like in America.

But fair enough, I'll drop the political stuff. I was just happy to see organized labor take a solid pro-gun stance for a change.

 

[reddog81]

This policy means that the Vermont AFL-CIO, which has a lobbying arm in the Statehouse, will “actively oppose any unreasonable gun control measures,” Van Deusen said."

When I read it, it sounds like they're OK with "reasonable" gun control measures. You know those good old common sense solutions like universal background checks and such.... Maybe I'm wrong, but when you start to make qualifying statements like that it basically means you can be for any gun control as long as it's "reasonable".

 

[Robert]

solid pro-gun

The problem I have is, by virtue of my job, my background, my religious beliefs, my political affiliation, and a great many other off topic for THR things, I have been labeled as one of those extremists by the left and media. As have a great number of the other members of THR. While I try very hard to keep an open mind, I have a healthy amount of skepticism when it comes to one of the largest backers of the Democratic party support my rights. The same party who's members have publicly stated they want to take away my firearms.

And let me perfectly clear. I do not support any member of the political establishment, no matter their affiliation, who do not support my rights. Or that support "common sense" gun control. Whatever that is...

Shameless plug time. All those things I said are off topic for THR are totally fine for discussion at No Tech Tyranny. All the stuff that is off topic here is fair game there. It is moderated by some of the same staff as here, but we understand that the mission there is different. So if you want to talk politics or all the other non THR stuff head over there.
https://notechtyranny.com/index.php

 

[James Fonteneaux]

I find it interesting that my wife and I can be simultaneously considered "working class" and potentially "fascists" and/or "individual extremeists" depending on who you talk to. I'd like to try to understand the other side, to find that bridge... But too many times the flames are too high.

 

[AlexanderA]

Well, except, this is aimed at us. We, conservative gun owners, are the enemy in their eyes.

This is a gun forum, not a conservative forum. Gun owners come from all parts of the political spectrum. Therefore, the "we" in the sentence above is misplaced. I, for one, don't consider myself a conservative even though I have lots of guns.

And, in fact, the Left is arming up as never before. Who do you think is driving all these gun sales? New owners, who tend to skew Left. (The Right is already armed to the gills.)

The gun controllers are not the hard Left. They're actually well-meaning, but naive, centrists. Typical soccer moms that know nothing about guns.

 

[Basura Blanca]

Setting aside all the other stuff, in case anyone wants to read the actual resolution, it's linked in the article or just here.
If you read nothing else, read the last three bullet points as they're the meat of the matter. This isn't just for show. It's designed to allow the union to spend resources/member money on pro 2A lobbying causes and not run afoul of any bylaws --that's what I get out of it. Disregarding all the fluff (e.g. every instance of the word "fascism", etc.), what's being "resolved" is worthwhile to all gun owners because it's one more source of potential input where it can make a difference.

 

[Steve S.]

When it comes to my firearms and the 2A, the enemy of my enemy is not my enemy but my enemy’s friend is the neighbor of my friend’s enemy’s friend - or something like that. How do you people keep up with and understand all of these political labels????? I am a simple old white guy veteran that likes to shoot and hunt. I mind my own business and I am very respectful and polite to others until they are not. I like to live with people that look like me but there are lots of people that look like me that I simply do not like. I don’t really care if someone looks like me but I like for those that don’t look like me and many that do look like me to please leave me alone - I will not bother you if you do not bother me. Now with that said, what is my political label?

 

[DoubleMag]

Wow I'm all impressed all the way down to my starched shorts. Someone makes a shift 180 degrees position. Even in a relatively neutral- pro 2A state, I need to see results 1st. Stand the test of TIME.

When this fellow GETS THE OK from his union higher-ups to support pro-2A legislation and, more importantly CANDIDATES, I'll start to watch. I didn't color me skeptical, ''they'' did. That said, all who espouse 2A virtues are welcome to ALSO exercise their (POSSESIVE) God given 1A rights.

I'll be from Missouri on this one, ''show me.''

 

[Megawatt maker]

Sadly, I'm a union member. I used to be proud of that, but not any more, not even close.
That changed because...well...the union left me..I didnt leave it. It ignores the rank and file, backed candidates that have publically campainged DIRECTLY against the same rank and file interests...even kept backing them when the flat out said...THEY WANT TO KILL OUR JOBS...straight up said it...yet the leadership kept pushing them on us (and giving them OUR money).

So, now the AFL CIO pulls this...too little too late for me. They will say they want to boost gun rights, but its only a lame attempt to placate their members who are screaming at them for endorsing candidates who hate guns...but mark my words, next election cycle, they WILL STILL BACK the same ones they always do...and they never support gun rights...

Unions and their leadership (but not a large growing percent of the rank and file) have become what Lenin called..."useful idiots"...that he used for his purposes then disposed off as soon as he was done with them.

These politicians and candidates the unions back these days are only the modern version of Lenin...

Sorry...just how IT IS, not as a see it.

 

[Megawatt maker]

I can't speak for everyone but I can tell you that America's far left is probably more on-board with you than you might think. The biggest hurdles are ones that aren't actually all that tall. You have to remember though that American Liberals are NOT far left.

We (the far left) don't generally care much for liberals like Biden and Pelosi, whom many of us see as nothing more than the same corporate crony politicians as McConnell and any of the Bush family. Biden is a 70s Republican IMHO. The push of the Republican party towards the far right makes him seem more center left than he really is. Pelosi is a rich liberal living in San Francisco. I couldn't afford a house in the ****tiest part of the tenderloin district if I mortgaged myself to my eyeballs and sold a kidney. She has nothing in common with me.
Even the beloved Bernie Sanders isn't a Socialist as he claims, but is really a New Deal Democrat. It's just that in today's political climate, he sounds a lot more left than he is. Actual socialists don't care for Sanders' desire to preserve capitalism and make it work for everyone and would seek revolutionary change to eliminate capitalism entirely.

With all do respect, you are not a liberal...you are a libertarian.

And no, Sanders is not a "new deal" Democrat. He is a straight up Communist. Moscow Bernie. Had his wedding in Moscow during the Soviet era. Video out there of him praising the virtues of Communism and Socialism while he was there.

Look it up...it will enlighten you!

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

https://vtdigger.org/2021/09/21/sta...-rights-to-counter-rise-in-domestic-extremism.


“We all know that the dangerous, violent, extreme right is armed to the teeth, and there is no law that can be passed on the state or federal level that would reverse that fact,” Van Deusen said Tuesday.

And if militant groups become a threat in Vermont, he said, union members and their allies will be prepared to “take reasonable measures” to ensure people are kept safe.

People of color, immigrants, the working class and low-income communities are most at risk of attacks by fascists, white supremacists and individual extremists, according to the two-page resolution.

This policy means that the Vermont AFL-CIO, which has a lobbying arm in the Statehouse, will “actively oppose any unreasonable gun control measures,” Van Deusen said."

About time more of my brothers and sisters on the left publicly embrace their gun rights. Gun Rights = Minority Rights

HAHAHAHA!

This reads like an attempted usurping of the conservative view point that EVERYBODY has a RKBA by making a claim that because those on the right are armed and violent, those on the left ought to be armed as well.

Conservatives have long been pointing out that gun control laws are heavily rooted in Jim Crow laws and suppression of minorities and that this isn't right.


"...the Vermont AFL-CIO, which has a lobbying arm in the Statehouse, will “actively oppose any unreasonable gun control measures...”"

If this is true, then the Vermont AFL-CIO should be advocating the abolishment of thousands of existing gun control measures, as they're historically heavily predicated on minority suppression. However, what they REALLY mean is they will actively oppose any gun control measures which don't meet their politically motivated ideology, which historically revolves around political power over people(s) and not the rights of the people themselves.


As for the opening statement in the OP, one could easily replace "extreme right" with "extreme left" and be 100% accurate.

 

[Megawatt maker]

If one cares to look around a bit, google search or in Reddit, one will find many examples of Antifa using one of Lenin's quotes quite often...

"Never disarm the working class!"...

Its become Antifas moto.

The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.
However, in this case, The enemy of my enemy are not really enemies. Antifa is only the public wing, the tool, the "brownshirts" of those on the hard left.
It's funny the call the right "fascists", when its them themselves who are using the EXACT same tactics the real faschists used 90 or so years ago.
Anyone who has read about that period of history of central Europe can pick this right out.

While I'm all for "spreading the gospel" of gun rights, we must be careful. I dont want to have to rely on, or even have to call...the likes of Antifa my friend just because we all like guns....

Same goes with this AFL CIO thing....be careful of who else is laying in that bed before we jump in it.

 

[JR24]

The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.

Can’t recall where I read it but I recall reading a quote that always makes more sense than the more common adage.

“The enemy of my enemy is my enemy’s enemy, nothing more, nothing less.”