Vertical forward grip vs angled grip on a firearm over 26"

[Bcwitt]

I have recently read that a VERTICAL forward grip may be used on an AR w short barrel so long as the overall is greater then 26. Also read that an angled grip gets around the foreword grip rule entirely on a pistol. I cannot imagine that is so. Would anybody w experience be willing to clarify?

 

[The_Quartermaster]

Wait until the ATF makes their illegal gun legislation determinations known in DEC.

But what I would if I had a pistol rifle, I'd use the Magpul AFG and have no brace. The AFG will be easier to use that way (to me at least) and is already legal for a pistol anyway.

 

[12Bravo20]

As of right now, adding a VFG to a pistol with an OAL 26" or greater changes the legal definition of what it is. With a pistol great then 26" in OAL will become a "firearm", commonly called "other", once you add a VFG. The reason for this legal definition change is the fact that the firearm in now intended to be fired using two hands AND does not meet the definitions of either a pistol or rifle (no shoulder stock).

Note, that as soon as you conceal a "firearm" it instantly becomes an unregistered AOW.

Currently, angled grips are okay to have on a pistol. IF the proposed brace rule change goes into effect, then any and all types of fore grips will add 4 points to the Worksheet 4999 if a brace installed. Even a small hand stop will add 2 points per the ATF Worksheet 4999. Any score of 4 points or more will indicate a shoulder fired design per the worksheet.

 

[Bcwitt]

So i can carry my 26&1/4" ar conceiled, provided it is not a firearm? Very odd.

 

[12Bravo20]

So i can carry my 26&1/4" ar conceiled, provided it is not a firearm? Very odd.

Yes you can, depending on your state laws, if it is truly a pistol. As always, check your state laws as some states have a maximum pistol length set in law.

 

[Ryanxia]

Note, that as soon as you conceal a "firearm" it instantly becomes an unregistered AOW.

Part of a requirement of an AOW is that the gun in question is 26" or LESS in OAL so even if you conceal your 'other' that is over 26" that shouldn't change the definition of the gun or am I remembering that incorrectly?

 

[12Bravo20]

Part of a requirement of an AOW is that the gun in question is 26" or LESS in OAL so even if you conceal your 'other' that is over 26" that shouldn't change the definition of the gun or am I remembering that incorrectly?

You are remembering incorrectly. Any gun classified as a "firearm' becomes an AOW if concealed. This also goes for the Mossberg Shockwave and similar guns too. Remember, a "firearm" does NOT meet the definition of a pistol or rifle.

We will use the determination letter that Mossberg received for the Shockwave for reference. The section I will point out is on page two of said determination letter.



https://www.williamsmullen.com/sites/default/files/files/Mossberg 590 Shockwave Letter NC.PDF

So yes concealing a gun classified as a "firearm" that does NOT meet the definition of a pistol or rifle can result in it instantly becoming an unregistered AOW.

 

[Bcwitt]

You are remembering incorrectly. Any gun classified as a "firearm' becomes an AOW if concealed. This also goes for the Mossberg Shockwave and similar guns too. Remember, a "firearm" does NOT meet the definition of a pistol or rifle.

We will use the determination letter that Mossberg received for the Shockwave for reference. The section I will point out is on page two of said determination letter.

View attachment 1111936

https://www.williamsmullen.com/sites/default/files/files/Mossberg 590 Shockwave Letter NC.PDF

So yes concealing a gun classified as a "firearm" that does NOT meet the definition of a pistol or rifle can result in it instantly becoming an unregistered AOW.

It says classification MAY change. 26" has been determined to be the limit of conceilability.

 

[12Bravo20]

It says classification MAY change. 26" has been determined to be the limit of conceilability.

Which means that it is up t the individual agent, Just like how the ATF Worksheet 4999 states basically the same thing about braced pistols too. The ATF leaves things vague on purpose.

 

[12Bravo20]

Here is the same vague language on the Worksheet 4999.



And if the ATF says something "might" change the classification of a firearm, then the ATF can and will say that it does change the classification. The same statement has been made about AR's classified as a "firearm" when concealed too.

 

[12Bravo20]

And a lot of states with concealed cary laws, only allow firearms classified as a pistol by federal law to be carried concealed. So even if something is allowed by federal law, it very well could be illegal in the state you reside in.

 

[Bcwitt]

How can they call it conceiled if over 26"?

 

[12Bravo20]

How can they call it conceiled if over 26"?

If you hide it under a trench coat then it is most definitely "concealed" and then becomes an unregistered AOW. And yes you can easily hide a "firearm" that is 26" in OAL under a trench coat.