Very light 9mm loads

[benzy2]

I'm looking to make some very light 9mm loads. I've got a CZ75 along with a complete recoil spring kit. This gun is purely a range toy. I've got a bunch of 124gr lead bullets to load. Since I'm not competing and don't need to make power factor I want to load these down as far as possible while still allowing the weakest recoil spring function fully. While 9mm is certainly no beast to begin with I don't see a need to run them full power to shoot steel spinners.

I've got plenty of load data for lead 9mm rounds at normal velocities. What I don't have is load data for reduced loads that will still cycle a 10lb recoil spring. At this point my thought was to load 25-50 up at a starting load, start with the heaviest recoil spring, and work down to see if it will cycle at any point. If not I'll bump powder up slowly until it is reliable.

The problem/question comes at the point of what if the starting loads all cycle fine on the lower weight recoil springs? I've heard quite a bit of mixed thoughts on reducing loads from there and detonation. Not sure I buy the concept of detonation but it's also one of those things where I'd rather not mess around to try to find out. I know you could always call it a day if this case happens. What would be a good further reduced load for 9mm be? I'm not familiar with light loading pistol rounds as I've always had one reason or another to load them to typical power levels. I know some rifle powders are used for reduced loads but as said, don't really know what is comparable, if anything, in pistol powder.

 

[henry-ctc]

As far as I know detonation with low charges only may happen in rifle ammo. The main concern about low charges in handguns is a bullet that got stuck in the barrel. It´s easy to notice if you feel a very low recoil. It´s easy to avoid by shooting just one round in the mag and cheking if it left the barrel.
Im the owner of a CZ75 pre B model. It´s factory spring is capable of cycling at very low chamber pressures, at least mine. Try a fast powder as Bullseye with a low charge. There is plenty of load data out there for lead bullets.
It´s like shooting a .32 and very accurate.

 

[kingmt]

Just work down & see where the slid stops functioning.

 

[Walkalong]

Use a fairly fast powder, watch for double charges, and keep an eye out for a squib where the bullet does not leave the barrel. Firing another round with a bullet stuck in the barrel can bulge a barrel, or worse. Double charges can blow guns up. Do not go so low the bullets barely leave the barrel. Give your self some leeway. You can go pretty light in 9MM, and still have 100% function, even with normal strength springs.

 

[777TRUTH]

Try this

3.8gr if Bullseye under 124gr FMJ or plated with a 1.14 COL.

 

[ny32182]

If they are in danger of not leaving the barrel, they will not even come close to cycling the slide no matter how light your recoil spring is. There is a vast difference between a squib and something that will run reliably with a 10lb recoil spring. The latter will still produce plenty of bang and you will not be able to confuse it with a squib.

I'd drop in the lightest recoil spring you have, start at the starting load, and work downward if it works. I'd second the fast powder: Titegroup, etc.

 

[wankerjake]

I use 3.5gr titegroup which is just under min for a 124/125gr LRN. Has cycled every slide I've shot them it, at least 6 different handguns, is very accurate and is a powder puff. Has been a very good load for me.

 

[mdi]

Many powders will burn erratically when loaded below minimum listed loads. They need some pressure to burn cleanly and consistantly...

 

[mackg]

In 9 Luger, I usually start superfast powders around 3.3 grs with a 125grs RN cast bullet (LEE), as most guns have a fairly weak recoil spring and seem to group better with such loads.

Did it with Titegroup and 700-X (3.4 grs both).
Since 700-X doesn't meter well under about 4 grs in my Auto-Disk, I elected Titegroup the winner (using a spherical powder really helps here).

 

[1SOW]

Many powders will burn erratically when loaded below minimum listed loads. They need some pressure to burn cleanly and consistantly...

Very true. That's why you need a fast powder for those light loads. At low pressures the powder residue/unburn't powder is noticeably present. Fast Single based powders tend to burn cleaner at low pressures.

Re the 10# recoil spring: The recoil springs "primary function" is to strip off a round from the magazine and push it into battery. A CZ 75B will do that with a 10# spring(*). I run an 11# recoil spring using 124/125gr jacketed bullets at 1040-1050 fps. It's 100% reliable.

Work up your load "IN REVERSE". Start at the low end and go down "slowly" with maybe 5 rds each decrease in powder. You'll likely have a FTFeed before you get a squib. Just MAKE SURE there is a hole in a target before you fire the next shot. (*) Keep the pistol clean and well-oiled with a synthetic light weight motor oil like Mobil1 (or the gun oil equivalent), especially the slide rails.

 

[jfremder]

Try this

3.8gr if Bullseye under 124gr FMJ or plated with a 1.14 COL.

I used 3.9 gr Bullseye under a 124 gr MB Smallball. Needed to be seated @ 1.07" COAL because of the short throat of my CZ-75b and unique ogive of the Smallball.

No leading, cycles reliably with stock spring. Not the best accuracy, but OK for plinking.

 

[LiveLife]

As many posted, with lighter charges some powders may not burn consistently enough to produce consistent chamber pressures for accurate shot groups.

As indicated by Alliant, I use Promo with Red Dot load data by weight. 2004 Alliant load data lists 4.5 gr max charge for 125 gr lead bullet. I did load tests from 3.8 to 4.2 gr using Missouri 125 gr RN with 1.080" OAL and even lighter 3.8-4.0 gr charges produced accurate loads that cycled the slides of G22/G27 with Lone Wolf 40-9 conversion barrels that were fairly clean burning (I can group 1.5" at 15 yards off hand with these loads).

Use a fairly fast powder, watch for double charges

Promo is a large flake powder and even at 3.8-4.0 gr, it will fill the 9mm case almost to the bullet base. You could try incrementally decreasing the powder charge (3.7, 3.6, etc.) and see which load will still cycle the slide and produce accurate shot groups.

 

[Walkalong]

American Select is another one that will do well filling the case, is low nitro content, and burns very cleanly at low pressure. A.S. kind of runs under the radar with many folks. Good stuff.

 

[ljnowell]

it wont fill the case nicely, but AA#2 would be perfect for what you are looking for, and it would meter well at low charge weights also.

 

[1KPerDay]

3.6-3.8 Red Dot under a 125 grain LRN is a good shooter and runs all my 9s fine. Recoil is light. May not be as light as you're looking for but try it and see what you think.

 

[918v]

3.7 grains of 231 under a 125 TCFP loaded to 1.050" OAL will cycle a Beretta M9 with a stock recoil spring. It feels like a 22LR and the bullet actually leaves the barrel.

 

[rbernie]

4gr. of Unique under a 124gr/125gr cast bullet will yield a very soft load that cycles most any semiauto.

 

[blackfoot5]

Bullseye is working for me in a RRA 1911. 8# recoil spring with 1 coil cut off.
2.9g BE with Penn 115g LSWC, CCI primers. I load as long as the chamber allows and taper crimp .376". Not a 50 yd load but works very well at 25 yds and in our indoor 50 ft. bullseye league. - gene

Use this and all loads off the net with caution.

 

[TonyT]

Try American Select it burns cleanly at low pressures since it was designed for shotshell use.

 

[bluetopper]

4.0gr of either Green Dot or American Select is my target load for a 125gr bullet.....and 3.7 with a 147gr bullet. Cycles my 9mm 1911 and shoots soft and very accurate......pure joy & sweetness.

 

[RandyP]

After re-reading your original post, I think that you will find using any of the starting load data you have will result in a very mild 9mm range plinking round. Factory ammo IMHO is 'usually' loaded to what we'd show as closer to max in our reloading data sheets. I don't think I'd go below any stated min's but that's just what keeps ME happy.

I have an SP-01 Tactical that is my fav range gun and load about 'mid' data for it with no negatives to report.

When I really want NO recoil at the range I shoot my .22's.

 

[BBDartCA]

Lightest recoiling loads I've ever shot through my CZ75, Witness and Jericho (competition springs) has been with AA #7 and 147gr FMJ & plated bullets. Second lightest is with 124g. Zero issues cycling. This is a slow burning powder that has very little muzzle flip. More of a shove than a flip. In my Witness, others have said that the 147's "fell like a 22." Its also great for mouse 9's. Look at the Loadbook or Lee book - you will see #7 has lower max pressures despite it having higher max velocities than most. Also does nicely with reduced loads. Good case fill. Burns very clean. Quiet. Titegroup and Power Pistol are the most violent and loud I've shot. Titegroup is pretty dirty and has scary-low case fill.

AA publishes 7.5 to 8.3g (1017 to 1156 FPS) for 125g lead.

 

[Owen]

hmm, never thought of using promo or american select in 9mm. I have a few pounds of TG left. Maybe i'll give those a try next.

 

[benzy2]

Finally got around to trying out a few loads. I had some light load data for clays laying around with lead bullets. I went from 2.9 gr which is hodgdons starting load down to 2.0 grains. All cycled fine at even the 14# spring. Extremely soft cycling, though clearly the 9mm isn't a huge recoiler to start. I may play with a few others but clays has worked well and accuracy was great, and with about 4lbs of it laying around I've got enough powder to last nearly 15,000 rounds

 

[1SOW]

benzy2, I suspect you may need a rag, a brush and some Hoppe's every 100 rds with that load..