Video of me being pepper sprayed with FoxLabs

[GuyWithQuestions]

I just thought that I'd show this video of me being pepper sprayed on Strategies and Tactics, since pepper spray can be a form of self-defense. I decided to get pepper sprayed because I've heard that it's good to know where the strengths and limitations of it are, and just in case I go to court I could say that I've experienced it before. I asked my roommates if they could help me out and they were like, "Sure, if you ever want to get pepper sprayed, we'd be glad to help a roommate out! Anytime!" When I asked if they'd be willing to get sprayed also, they said no but that they'd be happy to help me out. Figures So I went to a nearby grassy field, with a 5 gallon bucket of water, FoxLabs sudecon decontamination wipes, baby shampoo, and FoxLabs pepper spray. It took about 10 minutes before I could open my eyes, 30 minutes to keep them open for more than a half second, 40 minutes to walk home, and a few hours until it didn't feel like I had a really bad sunburn. My eyes are still slightly itchy from when I was sprayed; I was sprayed last Thursday (4/26). When I was sprayed with FoxLabs, I had my eyes shut, then opened them. You know the feeling when you burn yourself on the stove, or when you skin your knees and you have that burning sensation? It was something of a hybrid between those two feelings, but in the eyes. Then it felt like someone was sitting on my chest. Here's the video, sorry a lot of the quality was lost when putting it online:

http://s178.photobucket.com/albums/w257/PepperSprayGuy/?action=view&current=Igetpeppersprayed.flv

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

So, after being pepper sprayed directly in the face, is it not uncommon to think that those who say pepper spray is ineffective are on pot? The effects of pepper spray were more powerful and painful than what I had expected, although less nauseating than what I thought. Some people say that they've test sprayed OC and felt back draft coming back to their face and that although unpleasant, found it not incapacitating. I've been collecting pepper sprays for a couple of years and test spray them every three months. I've experience back draft, which I’ve found to be a lot different than being pepper sprayed directly in the face. Comparing back draft and a direct hit is comparing apples to oranges. One time the back draft even completely slammed one of my eyes shut and I ran inside to wash it out with dishwasher detergent. I was still able to open that one eye for a few seconds, and it felt much different than a direct hit. I've sprayed fog units inside places that I've lived (no one else inside at the time) to see what it smells like, but that doesn't compare to getting it in your face. Some say they know Mexican cops who eat pepper spray on their food. I enjoy licking the nozzles of pepper spray bottles after test spraying them, and being sprayed directly in my face felt completely different than licking it. I love hot foods and put tabasco sauce on my pizza sometimes and I still thought that the FoxLabs pepper spray was effective on me. Even if you are determined, it's hard to function if you're blind and the unsuspecting intense pain could throw one off for a few seconds so that the victim could get away. Anyone else have similar experiences with "direct hits" from pepper spray, or not really?

 

[Damien45]

Don't know much about the Foxlabs, but I do have experience with what we use in the Navy:

 

[Damien45]

Now, after getting sprayed we went off to different stations to fight. The first stations where:
Knee Bag 15 seconds
Punches 15 seconds
Blocks 15 seconds
Batton strikes on a guy in a suit 15 seconds
Batton strikes on 2 people, forward and back 15 seconds
Batton retention and apprehention.

EDIT: Then we got to wash most of the stuff off our face....

After the first station I was able to open my eyes enough to function almost normally (visual). After the whole thing it took me about 20 min to function enough to guide my partner through it. After 30min I could take my sunglasses off in the sun. After 2.5hrs and a long, cold shower I was out drinking!

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

Is that MK-4 made by Defense Technologies? What strength is that? Looking at DefenseDevices.com http://www.defensedevices.com/mk4fir.html, it looks like the solution is 10% pepper spray and a capsaicinoid content of 0.18%. I can't find the Scoville heat units for the base resin. It looks like there may be different strengths of that type of pepper spray also. Pepper sprays can vary greatly in strength. I know that FoxLabs is 5.3 Scoville Heat Units, forgot what the capsaicinoid content is. I know that Defense Technologies makes an interesting pepper spray, BodyGuard Hi-Power (they bought out BodyGuard Personal Security Products, although the name is still on the package). It's 3 million SHUs, 15% OC, a capsaicinoid content of 3.0%, and comes as forced cone. It's quite strong when you spray it inside!

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Expiration dates on pepper spray

Does anyone know how quickly pepper spray degrades? Has anyone been sprayed with "expired" pepper spray?

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

I know a lot of pepper sprays are three or four years to expire. My BodyGuard Hi-Power says 2012 on the bottle. I don't think that pepper spray loses potency so much as its propellant pressure. I've heard of people carrying pepper spray that's a few years expired and then just having a drizzle when a dog attacks them. I've heard it's good to test spray your bottle once every three months, to not only test the pressure but to make sure it doesn't clog (rare but it happens). Using this method, it's good to throw it out after a year and get a new one, even if it's not expired, just so that you can make sure you still have a lot of sprays left while keeping it unclogged. Most pepper spray canisters cost only $10-20 anyway.

 

[TheFederalistWeasel]

3 to 4 years is the norm but I replace mine out of my own pocket about every 6 months. I end up with 2 or 3 spare cans in my bag, good for large crowd calls or stirring up all the neighborhood dogs at 4 AM when I'm bored

 

[Dravur]

It is weird

But I eat alot of VERY spicy food and I have a fairly high tolerance for scoville units and I have been sprayed with pepper spray. It did make my eyes water but that was it. I honestly think I could have continued a fight, especially if I had blocked some or most of the spray with my arms.

I am not sure if eating very spicy foods and building a tolerance to them has any effect, but it may be worth noting

 

[Rattlesnake]

Is that MK-4 made by Defense Technologies? What strength is that? Looking at DefenseDevices.com http://www.defensedevices.com/mk4fir.html, it looks like the solution is 10% pepper spray and a capsaicinoid content of 0.18%. I can't find the Scoville heat units for the base resin. It looks like there may be different strengths of that type of pepper spray also. Pepper sprays can vary greatly in strength. I know that FoxLabs is 5.3 Scoville Heat Units, forgot what the capsaicinoid content is. I know that Defense Technologies makes an interesting pepper spray, BodyGuard Hi-Power (they bought out BodyGuard Personal Security Products, although the name is still on the package). It's 3 million SHUs, 15% OC, a capsaicinoid content of 3.0%, and comes as forced cone. It's quite strong when you spray it inside!

all I know is that the DefTech stuff sucks monkey nuts. atleast on the receiving end.

 

[Damien45]

It is weird

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But I eat alot of VERY spicy food and I have a fairly high tolerance for scoville units and I have been sprayed with pepper spray. It did make my eyes water but that was it. I honestly think I could have continued a fight, especially if I had blocked some or most of the spray with my arms.

I am not sure if eating very spicy foods and building a tolerance to them has any effect, but it may be worth noting

It doesn't. The fact is everyone will react differently. Some feel no effects at all, while others go fetal and scream. There are general reactions, as noted in the video. I got the benefit of getting trained on what to expect and therefore preparing mentally for the spray.

I don't remember the SHU's of the spray, but I believe it is 2%. The way the equation works actually differs from manufacturer to manufacturer. I do know it was a kick, both good and bad. I am glad I did it, but never want to have to do it again.

 

[kir_kenix]

ive been peppersprayed before (by a friend in a pasture for "fun") and been subject to CS gas on several occasions, and while very annoying, wont imho stop a determined attacker. granted, we had a $22 can of spray from cabellas (or maybe scheels) that might not be up to snuff w/ the spray you had. my eyes watered and burned, but i could still have continued fighting thru the pepper spray, and was expected to continue training thru the CS gas.

i should look into getting some of the stuff u used for my wife however.

 

[CWL]

GuyWithQuestions,
Good video you made. What I noticed most was that you never appeared severly incapacitated by the OC because you were in command of your body functions the entire time.

You spoke calmly the entire time, you were able to calmly open (the 1st) decon wipe as well as locate the water bucket and shampoo several times in order to wash your eyes out in a calm and determined manner. I also noticed that you didn't have much trouble using your hands.

Had this been a SD situation and you had a knife or baton, it appears that you would still have been able to swing away with them. I don't know how your vision was so I don't know how accurate gunfire would be, but I would guess that you wouldn't be incapacitated to the point of dropping a firearm.

Can we talk you into doing this again? This time, you are holding a rubber knife (or rolled-up newspaper) and your target is the 'sprayer' (he can't move more than 1-2 yards to simulate a person being backed-up against a wall or car).

I'd like to see how long you can slash away at the 'sprayer' before the OC made you so uncomfortable that you had to wash.

 

[shadowalker]

Fun video, I agree you seemed to be in relative control, much different reaction than the last person I saw get sprayed with Fox Labs OC. I've been thinking of doing this, I could easily get a few guys from work together, most of us are shooters. Now I just have to convince my wife it is a good idea.

 

[Damien45]

Actually, I am curious if there is a "minimum distance" with the fog. I know there is one for the stream (which I had) to avoid Hydraulic Needle Effect (when the OC penetrates the tissue of your eyeball....VERY painful). I would think the application distance would generally be closer in a SD situation.

Additional note....you got one spray. Generally when used in SD....the person spraying wont stop spraying until attacker stops attacking.....just another thing to consider.

 

[Damien45]

Fun video, I agree you seemed to be in relative control, much different reaction than the last person I saw get sprayed with Fox Labs OC. I've been thinking of doing this, I could easily get a few guys from work together, most of us are shooters. Now I just have to convince my wife it is a good idea.

Start with her mom.....she'll probably help convince her! AND she'll probably offer to hold the video camera (which I suggest using a tripod). We all know how Mother-In-Laws can be sometimes!

 

[GuyWithQuestions]

I enjoy hot foods and licking pepper spray bottle nozzles after spraying them, but getting it in your eyes feels a lot different. Quite a few studies have shown the pepper sprays can be more than 5 times more or less potent than each other and they can be from 50-95% effective depending on what they are.

I was quite impressed with the pain and power of the type of pepper spray I was sprayed with. I'm just not that much of a screamer, and I couldn't see by the way. If I was determined and knew where a punching pad was or was led to it, I could punch it. If someone with a punching pad were to run around like a piñata, I would have trouble finding them. In an actually self-defense situation, you're supposed to move diagonally away from the attacker, or in L-shape fashion. I was able to find the bucket, baby shampoo, etc, but it was from feeling around, not by sight. If someone's been trained to do a particular movement in a certain space, they can still do it after being sprayed if they're determined, such as a punching pad. To tell you the truth, I would actually be quite confident in spraying someone with a knife or bat if it's strong pepper spray. The pain was quite a deterrent in itself. In the video I had been expecting to get sprayed. If you used the element of surprise when spraying someone in self-defense with a potent spray, I could see how it would startle them long enough for you to run away, even if it didn't blind them. However, if someone were to have you in a head lock, I probably wouldn't spray them unless there's something I don't know about pepper spray, because it would probably make even a law abiding citizen so mad that they would break your neck. In a real life SD situation, you probably wouldn't spray them one time, like in all those youtube pepper spray videos, but multiple times. I've heard that 9/10 when it doesn't work, it's because you didn't get them well enough.

 

[Byron Quick]

Folks, how pepper spray of whatever make or strength works on you is just and only that-how it works on you.

The effects of most things will graph out on the bell curve for the entire population. Most in the middle but look down there at the ends.

There's a prison near my hospital. There was an asthmatic there who would get brought into emergency department everytime that pepper spray was used anywhere in his cellblock. And he was on the verge of dying. The physician finally added a note to his official medical record that using pepper spray on him was no different than using lethal force. At that point, the prison transferred him to a medical prison.

There's people whose eyes will roll back in their heads as they go into convulsions and die on you after being hit with pepper spray and there are people who will lick their lips and ask for more. Both groups together are probably less than 2% of the total population.

The drill during basic with CS gas? Where I was supposed to say my name, rank, and serial number? I could not say 'By' to get Byron out. If they hadn't let me go, I'd be there yet.

 

[Damien45]

The drill during basic with CS gas? Where I was supposed to say my name, rank, and serial number? I could not say 'By' to get Byron out. If they hadn't let me go, I'd be there yet.

Yeah, I love how they call that the "Confidence Chamber" now. All in the idea of building your confidence in the mask's given. Must say, it worked. Although I did manage to spit out all the requested information....now if it was actually MY information, I couldn't tell ya....

 

[mbt2001]

I use the triple action mace... The pepper spray / tear gas / dye stuff. The dy is kind of useless, but I certainly think that the combination of pepper spray and tear gas with a swift kick to the knee or groin would render assainlent unable to do much else but moan....

I have a lot of confidence in pepper sprays... I don't know why some states have made them illegal or questionable. But I am sure it boils down to a "Police only" type of mentality.

 

[flashman70]

I remember the gas chamber even though it was 35 years ago. I got name, rank and serial number out in one breath and was ready to rush out as previous trainees had, but the drill sargeant then asked me where I was from. I had to suck in a big breath of CS. Needless to say I got out "Norfolk, VA" and bolted for the door, crying and coughing. Sgt. Jackson never did like my attitude.

 

[willbrink]

(1) I would think there would be a huge difference between eyes open and eyes closed responses

(2) whats very clear is the spray would not have prevented you at all from charging in and stabbing the sprayer to death had it been the real thing.

I could not be less impressed with the effects of the pepper spray from what I just saw. Eyes wide open might be a totally different outcome, don't know.

 

[jcoiii]

We did the pepper spray funtime at the police academy and the results were varied. Most, like myself, took about 30 minutes to recover to the point of being able to keep eyes open and function fully. Some took a few hours. One guy had burns on his head from the spray. And the lone female was good to go in a couple of minutes. Her response, "I've been through childbirth. That was nothing!"

 

[Damien45]

(1) I would think there would be a huge difference between eyes open and eyes closed responses

(2) whats very clear is the spray would not have prevented you at all from charging in and stabbing the sprayer to death had it been the real thing.

I could not be less impressed with the effects of the pepper spray from what I just saw. Eyes wide open might be a totally different outcome, don't know.

In responce to:

1) Yes, very different. The idea of getting sprayed with eyes closed in training, is to:
A: Prevent possible injury (contact lenses are NOT good with OC)
B: You have an idea what to expect should someone manage to block/shut eyes.

2) You don't seem to take into account a couple things:
A: His friend didn't give him a blast with the spray. He did enough to get the spray on him.
B: If you were to use the spray in SD you would keep spraying until you felt the BG was having difficulty continuing the attack.

Yes, there is the chance the BG will charge upon being sprayed. No, he can't see, so he will go to the last place he knew you to be. SO MOVE! Two steps back, one step sideways and repeat if necessary.

Unless you have been sprayed, you wont understand the potentials and the what ifs.

 

[Jeff White]

I have sprayed a lot of people over the years. I've never seen it have no effect, but I have seen some subjects react better then others to it.

I arrested a man for DUI one night. As soon as I told him he was under arrest the fight was on. I sprayed him, cuffed him and took him to the jail. I was still in the jail about 10 minutes later when he started coming out of it and getting combative with the correctional officer. I walked over to him, and told him to settle down while reaching for the OC on my belt. As soon as he saw me reach for the OC, he became compliant; "Man, I'm cool, there isn't any need for more of that." he said. He recovered from it quicker then a lot of people, but he clearly didn't want to be sprayed again.

Jeff