Virginia gun bill killed

[zoom6zoom]

Yeah, me too.
When the one speaker was saying how there is almost no gun crime in Europe, I had to comment to my friend that it was because we are citizens and they are subjects. One of the Techies commented that I'd obviously never been to Europe. Well, I don't need to crawl inside a pig to recognize bacon, and I've studied history. She may have been to Europe, but I'm guessing the shopping and partying didn't leave much time for learning.

I had hoped to put more faces with screen names yesterday but there were just too many of us! I was standing midway along the right wall wearing a tan sportcoat.

 

[rainbowbob]

This morning on a talk show, I saw one of the victims of the Virginia Tech massacre and his father debating with another young man about the advisability of allowing 21-year-old, trained, licensed students to legally carry concealed on university campuses. Incredibly, the victim and his father were arguing against the idea! The student and his father were convinced that had there been armed citizens in the vicinity, there would have been more deaths as a result of cross-fire, poor aim, etc. How do you account for this attitude from someone who was fortunately found alive among the 31 dead? Even if there had been “collateral damage” from return fire – the net result would undoubtedly have been fewer deaths and casualties.

 

[ScottS]

The student and his father were convinced that had there been armed citizens in the vicinity, there would have been more deaths as a result of cross-fire, poor aim, etc.

According to one of the news reports I read, in at least one case, the students in a classroom tried to hold the door closed to prevent Cho from coming in, but he shot those holding the door closed. How can they think that an armed student in that classroom, with a gun trained on the door, could not have stopped Cho when he stepped into the "fatal funnel?" Unbelievable to have come through that ordeal and decide that it would be best to remain unarmed in that situation. I just don't get it.

 

[Mr. James]

What's a fatal funnel?

I mean, seriously, the folks advocating these laws would not have the slightest inkling of which you speak. Oh, I agree with you, and don't get it either, on at least one level, but consider the audience. Some of them really believe if you just make the guns go away, peace and felicity ensue . . .

Even after losing their children, they still don't get it. One fellow at the General Assembly yesterday, a clergyman "in uniform" had a color photo of a sailor on a big button. "Who's that?" asked one of the VCDL people. Without rancor, he answered, "My son; he was killed by a gun."

Didn't have the heart to say, "no, he was killed by a murderous b****** who had no moral grounding, and no regard for the value of your son's life."

 

[ZeSpectre]

My son; he was killed by a gun

I'm sorry, he was killed by whom?
(wait for answer)
Well isn't that who you should be going after?

Some folks think I'm a little cold on some of this stuff but I've had
-1 Close friend commit suicide (used a gun)
-3 Close friends killed by drunk drivers (one run down by an 18 wheeler while crossing the road in DC!)
-2 Close friends killed by robbers (one knife, one firearm)
-4 Close friends killed by terrorist attack (Pentagon)
and several other acquaintances either seriously injured or killed by "gang activity".

Not once, EVER, have I blamed the automobiles, knives, firearms, alcohol, etc. My sights always settle very firmly on the CRIMINALS and it drives me absolutely out of my mind when someone tries to shift blame from where it belongs (on the head of the criminal).

So someone like Cho moves himself "beyond justice". Hey sometimes that's how it works but the grief that is causing these folks to flail around and hurt others in their quest to "do something" should not be given legitimate status just because we sympathize with their grief.

 

[ScottS]

What's a fatal funnel?

I mean, seriously, the folks advocating these laws would not have the slightest inkling of which you speak. Oh, I agree with you, and don't get it either, on at least one level, but consider the audience. Some of them really believe if you just make the guns go away, peace and felicity ensue . . .

Even after losing their children, they still don't get it. One fellow at the General Assembly yesterday, a clergyman "in uniform" had a color photo of a sailor on a big button. "Who's that?" asked one of the VCDL people. Without rancor, he answered, "My son; he was killed by a gun."

Didn't have the heart to say, "no, he was killed by a murderous b****** who had no moral grounding, and no regard for the value of your son's life."

The "fatal funnel" is the area of the doorway where the person entering is silhouetted from the perspective of defenders inside the room.

I didn't advocate using those terms as an argument. I was merely pointing out that an armed student could have covered the door and shot Cho when he entered and stood in the doorway...the same way one takes cover in one's bedroom and waits for Mr. Badguy to enter the room. It wasn't a matter of roving assault teams of students in the corridors seeking him out.

 

[rainbowbob]

One other thing that blew my mind on that talk show this morning (where the VT victim and his father argued against the right to carry on campus). They asked for a show of hands in the studio audience who would favor the right to carry on campuses. Not one hand went up! This is an indication of how deep the fear of self-defense has taken root.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Not one hand went up! This is an indication of how deep the fear of self-defense has taken root.

Or it's an indicator of a hand-picked audience.

 

[Mr. James]

ScottS,

Thank you - I understood, but was responding to your last sentence - that even after undergoing such an ordeal, there was no change in their thinking, and they still think being disarmed is best. Consider the following:

Colin Goddard, who survived despite being shot four times by Cho, was taken aback when a member of the Firearms Coalition approached him and said students could have stopped the rampage if they were allowed to carry handguns on campus.

"I would have stopped him," Jeff Knox, director of operations for the Manassas-based group told Mr. Goddard. "Because when I went to school, I carried a gun. It was legal, I did it."

Mr. Goddard responded quickly.

"I feel sorry for you — the fact that you feel you need to protect yourself in every situation," the Virginia Tech senior said. "You're afraid of crazy situations happening. I've lived through this, and I know that I can't continue in my life afraid of things. Things are going to happen out of my control.

"There are people within our society who we deem capable and correct, our police forces who are supposed to protect us — and I put my full trust in them."

Mr. Goddard and fellow survivor Lily Habtu, both strong supporters of closing the loophole, watched the lie-in but did not join those on the ground.

"I was one of the people who were lying down when [the shootings] happened," Mr. Goddard said. "So I've done my lying down."

From The Washington Times coverage of Monday's rally.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps...080122/METRO/197189161/1004&template=printart

 

[Vern Humphrey]

This morning on a talk show, I saw one of the victims of the Virginia Tech massacre and his father debating with another young man about the advisability of allowing 21-year-old, trained, licensed students to legally carry concealed on university campuses. Incredibly, the victim and his father were arguing against the idea!

Those same 21-year olds can carry a gun openly in Virginia without a license. Those same 21-year olds can carry a gun concealed in Virginia with a license.

What is it about Virginia Tech that turns them into idiots or killers when they step over the campus boundary?

 

[ScottS]

ScottS,

Thank you - I understood, but was responding to your last sentence - that even after undergoing such an ordeal, there was no change in their thinking, and they still think being disarmed is best. Consider the following:

:
Colin Goddard, who survived despite being shot four times by Cho, was taken aback when a member of the Firearms Coalition approached him and said students could have stopped the rampage if they were allowed to carry handguns on campus.

"I would have stopped him," Jeff Knox, director of operations for the Manassas-based group told Mr. Goddard. "Because when I went to school, I carried a gun. It was legal, I did it."

Mr. Goddard responded quickly.

"I feel sorry for you — the fact that you feel you need to protect yourself in every situation," the Virginia Tech senior said. "You're afraid of crazy situations happening. I've lived through this, and I know that I can't continue in my life afraid of things. Things are going to happen out of my control.

"There are people within our society who we deem capable and correct, our police forces who are supposed to protect us — and I put my full trust in them."

Mr. Goddard and fellow survivor Lily Habtu, both strong supporters of closing the loophole, watched the lie-in but did not join those on the ground.

"I was one of the people who were lying down when [the shootings] happened," Mr. Goddard said. "So I've done my lying down."

From The Washington Times coverage of Monday's rally.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/...plate=printart

I'll never understand this. He might as well be speaking ancient Greek, or describing a color I just can't see.