cowboy77845
Member
Does anyone have an idea about a reasonable price on an Interarms Walther PP 22 LR. Includes box, papers box and 2 xtra magazines.
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WaltherPP in 22LR
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scaatylobo
Member
I bought a newer model and the S/A mode is just fine.
BUT the D/A mode is about 20 to 25 POUNDS.
And the gun is far heavier than the Beretta 70S that I own and carry as a BUG or small game pistol.
usp9
Member
First I'd have to ask what the "i" is about, as I've never heard or read about a PPi. Assuming we're talking about a normal Interarms PP, then the least I've seen as of a few days ago is in the $700 area and as high as $1000. I paid $750 for mine a few years ago in excellent condition with all the accessories. It was a 1971 manufacture. I would pay that again personally but not higher. At $700 you will retain the value in a resale. At near the $1000 mark the resale value is iffy IMHO. Of course the value is in the buyers desire...
cowboy77845
Member
A few typos. I am under the impression that the Walthers imported by Interarms are all German made. Is this in error?
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
After WW2 the original Walther factory in Zella-Melhis fell into the Eastern block and Walther had to move into new digs in Ulm. There is much debate about which (if any) parts were actually made there or if they just did heat treating/finishing/and assembly for parts made at the French Manurhin plant (who also made complete pistols themselves). German law allowed them to mark these guns "Made in Germany."
After 1968, the PPK and TPH did not meet US import restrictions and Interarms contracted with Ranger Machining to make these guns in the US under Walther license. The Ranger made guns are of excellent construction, but jam as readily as any PP-type unless you find a brand of ammo they like.
As far as I know, no actual full-size PPs were ever US made. Yours is most likely a French/German hybrid. Nothing wrong with that- Manurhin made excellent weapons.
Monac
Member
Thanks, NIGHTLORD40K! I like learning new things about guns, and I didn't know about Ranger Machining before.
Coyote3855
Member
I'm interested in Walthers and own a Manurhin PP, but get confused with the Walther variations made under license. I agree with Nightlord40K that there were no full-size PPs made in the US. Jim may be referencing the PPKS in .22 which is listed in his price range from various sources.
cowboy77845
Member
I remember reading about that years ago now that you mention it. Seems like Walther could not manufacture firearms at that time because of being a supporter of the regime. I know magazine are a bear to find. After mkt ones do not work and if some one says they do I have some I will send them. The Walthers have little guides on them about halfway. The guides keep the nose of the cartridge aligned with the chamber. Cost me $80 to learn of that. But that sucker will shoot.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Karl Walther was initially charged with being a Nazi "supporter" but was eventually found guilty of the lesser charge of "follower" and allowed to remain in business. The reason for shifting production to Manurhin, at first, was to comply with Allied restrictions on native German arms plants- and may have involved lower cost labor later on.
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Primary reason was the Walther plant was in what became East Germany. Walther lost most all their records and all of their equipment and had to start from scratch on manufacturing anything, permission or no. Rumor has it the Russians took all the paperwork and developed their 9x18 round after the original WWII experimental 9mm Ultra round Walther had made. Certainly you see PP derived guns all over the Eastern bloc after this.
kBob
Member
During the 1970's when I was technically stationed in Neu Ulm (my mail went there and my first year I slept there 27 nights total) my Polizi friends showed me a couple of "Lunch Pail Pistols" that were among the Banhof Pistols they confiscated....Banhof because black market pistols frequently changed hands at the train station and llunch pail because these particular P1 (P38) pistols were believed to be from parts smuggled from the factory. Neither guns bore any markings that I saw. Supposedly they were made from parts that gauged oversized that had been hand worked to fit. The one I shot worked quite well.
To show you what an idiot I was as a late teen and early 20's kind of Light Weapons Infantryman, The Gun club I belonged to had members from both the Walther and Anshutz families, and I never spoke to them. I lived an easy taxi ride from Kreighof, Walther, and Anshutz and never visited any. Most folks don't even know that Walther produced a center fire bolt action for the Olympic Running Game even back when it was Centerfire rifle event (it went to KKW(.22LR) and is now last I looked an air rifle event. I used a Walther loaner in my club to shoot .308 ammo in a few times and liked it a lot. I also used the Walther ISU 50 prone rifle they loaned to the cub a good bit.....any sport where you lay around on your belly all day appeals to me. I was told that the Walther rifles were made in Ulm. Whether the pistols were wholly made in Ulm or not I can not say but the club members certainly thought so. I under stand the new indoor shooting facility in Ulm has pretty much shut down my old club over on the Neu Ulm side of the river.
-kBob
To show you what an idiot I was as a late teen and early 20's kind of Light Weapons Infantryman, The Gun club I belonged to had members from both the Walther and Anshutz families, and I never spoke to them. I lived an easy taxi ride from Kreighof, Walther, and Anshutz and never visited any. Most folks don't even know that Walther produced a center fire bolt action for the Olympic Running Game even back when it was Centerfire rifle event (it went to KKW(.22LR) and is now last I looked an air rifle event. I used a Walther loaner in my club to shoot .308 ammo in a few times and liked it a lot. I also used the Walther ISU 50 prone rifle they loaned to the cub a good bit.....any sport where you lay around on your belly all day appeals to me. I was told that the Walther rifles were made in Ulm. Whether the pistols were wholly made in Ulm or not I can not say but the club members certainly thought so. I under stand the new indoor shooting facility in Ulm has pretty much shut down my old club over on the Neu Ulm side of the river.
-kBob
Gordon
Member
all this said : I got the urge to have a .22 Walther PP back in early 80s when Skeeter Skelton and others pronounced the the best small .22 LR made, indeed, the German Kit Gun. With real Walther mags and good hot .22 ammo they are indeed reliable and very accurate. I have all three caliber Walther PP in their boxes. I like the .32acp best of all as it does what the .22 does and more. The .22 and the .380 PP are the most expensive. I also have a Walther Sportmodel .22 with 6" barrel and a finger rest n mag extension and adjustable sights and a lighter SA trigger that is a wonderful little plinker. $1000 for an excellent .22LR PP would not be out of line. You can get an excellent .32 PP for $600-700 and Wonderful Mecgar Italian made mags are available only in .32 and cheap.
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NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Seems the .32s are the best as far as function, would make sense as the gun was designed for this round- adapting it up or down in caliber resulted in decreased reliability.
If I ever stumble across a stainless Interarms .32, I'm snatching it up!
BTW, they did make a pre-war PP in .25acp....uber rare and pricey these days!
Gordon
Member
I never heard of the .25acp Walther PP. Don't want one tho
Monac
Member
I think Skeeter Skelton was wrong. The best 22 built on a pocket pistol frame was the Beretta 71, IMO. I think the Israeli Mossad agreed with me.
bannockburn
Member
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Monac
Have to agree with you somewhat though I think that the best .22 Kit Gun in a semi-auto is the Beretta Model 70S. Mine is super reliable (as in never has had a single problem with how it works), fairly accurate with most any kind of ammunition (did I mention it has a terrific single action trigger and an adjustable rear sight), and is light and small enough to carry comfortably all the time.
Have to agree with you somewhat though I think that the best .22 Kit Gun in a semi-auto is the Beretta Model 70S. Mine is super reliable (as in never has had a single problem with how it works), fairly accurate with most any kind of ammunition (did I mention it has a terrific single action trigger and an adjustable rear sight), and is light and small enough to carry comfortably all the time.
usp9
Member
The Beretta 71 is one of my favorites too, but the sights are tiny. IMHO the absolute best small .22lr is the Daewoo DP52, a PP clone but better and much cheaper than a PP. Reliable, very robust and easier to shoot well. In a side to side shoot off I prefer it to either the PP or the 71 although all are top of their class, world class and worth owning.
that's a .32 PP shown.
that's a .32 PP shown.
kBob
Member
I keep seeing references to the Mossad and the Beretta 71.....they used the .22Short only Match pistol made for the turning target ISU/ Olympic rapid fire pistol game for "wet work" as even unsuppressed it drew little attention. I believe the .22LR version was called the 76 but do not recall what the short only was called (I used a Walther in that game) At ranges of under three feet and nasal cavity/eyes "T" shots they worked mostly very well. The frame of these guns does resemble the 71 but they have a much more robust "upper" and longer barrel.
For a bit in the mid 70's to mid '80s the first thing Euro police thought on finding spent .22 Short hulls at a crime scene was "Wonder what this guy did to tick off the Israeli's?"
Not that I do not like the 71, I wouldn't mind having either a normal one or the extended barrel model.
For all I know they may have also used the Model 71s.....but not what they were known for that decade and cleaning up after the '72 Olympics at least.
-kBob
For a bit in the mid 70's to mid '80s the first thing Euro police thought on finding spent .22 Short hulls at a crime scene was "Wonder what this guy did to tick off the Israeli's?"
Not that I do not like the 71, I wouldn't mind having either a normal one or the extended barrel model.
For all I know they may have also used the Model 71s.....but not what they were known for that decade and cleaning up after the '72 Olympics at least.
-kBob
Gordon
Member
I have a switch barrel Beretta Jaguar .22 and while nice the Walter is smoother and accurate, has DA so is safely carried ready to go and seems a little more reliable in 25 years of experimenting. I'll take the Beretta suppressed tho, they actually seem more reliable that way
Monac
Member
The Beretta 76 was a 22 Long Rifle target pistol based on the Beretta 70/71 frame. It has a long heavy barrel assembly and a somewhat different safety mechanism, IIRC. It had extended grips that took a ten round magazine. The 76W was the same gun with factory walnut grips. The 22 Short "Tipo Olimpico" would seem like a big awkward thing to carry aound, and given that 25 ACP has an iffy reputation regarding penetrating skulls, and 22 Short is even less powerful, would seem kind of sub-minimal to me.
PS - the safety setup on the Model 71 is essentially just like that of the Colt 1911.
PS - the safety setup on the Model 71 is essentially just like that of the Colt 1911.
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Monac
Member
Are you sure you mean the Beretta has tiny sights? I have a Beretta 71 and a Daewoo 380, and although the Beretta sights are shallower, I would have thought they were about as wide. Now, the early Bersa 22s had uselessly tiny sights, which nobody seemed to mention, and I only found out after I bought one over the Internet. Buying target guns over the Internet can be tricky....
Monac
Member
BTW, I guess I have been writing "Beretta Model 71" in all these posts when I probably meant "Beretta 70S". What I have been talking about is the gun in bannockburn's picture, although the factory never offered hard chrome plating like that, unfortunately - it looks good and wears better.
usp9
Member
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
Friend of mine was way behind in child support. I gave hime the money in exchange for a Bersa 380 and Bersa 22.
and he had to install my dishwasher.
He claimed they were like the Walther. They are not.
and he had to install my dishwasher.
He claimed they were like the Walther. They are not.
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