"War on drugs" poster, edited 1/9

[taliv]

i'm not getting into the political discussion, but about the poster, oleg...

it just doesn't seem to work. i mean, she's holding a gun in a bathrobe with a 'come hither' pose and smile on her face that you'd expect on a dillon catalog cover. she doesn't LOOK like she's fending off knuckleheads or stormtroopers

none of your verbage on the poster indicates your issue is rifle vs shotgun (and btw, i was under the impression that the jackboots wouldn't be too keen on slugs. maybe a single-barrel breakdown shotgun ain't such a hot home-defense choice, but there are plenty of skeet guns that hold 5 or 6 rnds.)


perhaps instead, you could spoof a movie poster and do something like a picture of her in a bubble bath or kids playing with the family dog

coming to a wrong address near you soon...

_no knock warrants_

starring well-meaning LEOs "just doing their job"

directed by the DEA

brought to you by the War on Drugs

"The Constitution ain't what it used to be"

 

[taliv]

I guess I never realized before just how anti any form of government is this site and many of its members. I wish you all well after you overthrow the government and have to fend for yourselves each man for himself ebcause you obviosuly will not have any trust in government. I thought this place had been full of practical people not extremists, I have now seen otherwise, and it goes to the very essence of this site. Goodbye.

don't take it personally. just because we don't TRUST government doesn't mean we're against government. trusting the gov would be pretty friggin stupid, given, oh, say, the last 6000 years of recorded history.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Oleg,

As much as I like the majority of your work, for me this poster doesn't get across what you're apparently trying to say, based on your subsequent posts.

 

[fjolnirsson]

I guess I never realized before just how anti any form of government is this site and many of its members.

Um, ok. Actually, I sometimes feel as though this site is overun by big state advocates. Then I realize it's just all the Libertarians and Minarchists are logged off. I've found we actually seem to have large percentages of Republicans, Libertarians and minarchists, in equal amounts, with the occasional anarchist thrown in for good measure.

I wish you all well after you overthrow the government

Who said this? I didn't see it.

and have to fend for yourselves each man for himself ebcause you obviosuly will not have any trust in government.

Not our current government, no.

I thought this place had been full of practical people not extremists

,One man's extremist is another man's moderate.

I have now seen otherwise, and it goes to the very essence of this site. Goodbye.

Taking your ball and going home, eh? Too bad. I was enjoying your input. I wish you weren't so quick to cast judgement on nearly 25,000 members due to the posts of a few you disagree with. To each his own.
If not allowing myself and my family to be victimized makes me an extremist, so be it. I do know what a no-knock warrant is, and how it's executed. It has it's place, but the war on drugs has gone a long way toward destroying the bill of rights, and some of us are sick of it.

 

[fjolnirsson]

Anyway, back to the topic, which was Oleg's poster, I'd have to agree that it's a little unclear what it is saying. I like the message, but it's a little muddled. That said, I don't have any suggestions for making it better....

 

[AF_INT1N0]

I didn't have a problem with the message.. Or should I say.

The lady with the shotgun can defend herself against a criminal. = Good.

But the lady who thinks she's protecting herself from a criminal then shot by DEA/ SWAT/ BATFE etc = Bad.

The message---No knock warrants = bad..

Maybe it would help if you added a stack o DEA in the door..

 

[carebear]

Geez, I work with these guys. They don't practice and they are pathetic. Try taking a lot of drugs and then spending money on that stuff instead of decent food or clothing and see what occurs to your physique.

There are reasons these guys go for women. First, women tend not to be alert to threats or potential bad situations. Second, they don't react very fast when things start going badly for them. Third, they are weaker than the guys or at least are conditioned not to fight back very much. Instead, they plead or bargain.

Criminals practicing with weapons? Is this some sort of James Bond scenario? Where do you get your info? It sure isn't from my area.

Not sure which guys you work with. Much of my info comes from serving and former cops in Washington, Cali and up here. Some from my former Company Gunny who is a CO at Folsom. Some from associates of various biker brotherhoods. Some from personal contact during my time as a range officer at an indoor range here in Anchorage. Some from reputable sources here on THR.

Many of these bad guys aren't a problem for "civilians," just cops and others in the life. They operate outside the experience of most of us. But unless I'm being lied to, more and more of the street gangbangers and their extended networks, who do commit crimes on civilians, are taking a leaf from the pro bad guy playbook. The new immigrant gangs from current or recent war zones also tend to come with a better skill set.

I've never been particularly concerned about the odd mugger or crack head, it's getting caught up in the tres rare semi-pro or multiple assailant situation that I train and plan for.

 

[R.W.Dale]

This thread and all of it's nutty contents serves nothing but to give us gunowners a bad name. YOU HAVE TO BE SHURE OF YOUR TARGET ANYTIME YOU USE A FIREARM. Weither it's making shure that a deer is actually a deer in the woods. Or inshuring your long anticipated STHF senerio has a drug crazed bandito as a target or the neighbors daughter who is having a sleep over with your daughter.

Bottom line if that lady does not put down whatever firearm she has really quick in the face of the DEA wrong house or not she is gonna die

How many of you keyboard Kommandos who THINK your ready for everything have a fire extinguisher and smoke dectectors in your home?

 

[fjolnirsson]

YOU HAVE TO BE SHURE OF YOUR TARGET ANYTIME YOU USE A FIREARM.

Absolutely. That doesn't mean I should ask for ID when a man busts down my door carrying a gun. That means I should be sure who or what I am shooting at. A man who breaks down my door,IMO , is threatening my family. He's gonna get shot, no matter what he's yelling. I don't do things to recieve visits from SWAT, therefore anyone who breaks down my door is a criminal, and will be treated accordingly.

Bottom line if that lady does not put down whatever firearm she has really quick in the face of the DEA wrong house or not she is gonna die

I'm not convinced of that. Look at Cory Maye.

 

[R.W.Dale]

If I posted anything close to this it would be shut down in a nano second.

Hypothetically shooting cops? Isn't this the high road?

+1

 

[fjolnirsson]

This thread and all of it's nutty contents serves nothing but to give us gunowners a bad name.

How does calling people "keyboard Kommandos" make it better?

I think I've said all I'm gonna on this topic. If Oleg puts a new poster up, I'll say something, but I don't want to get the thread shut down by conversing with beligerent people.

 

[Malice]

Oleg, I have an idea for a piece in the tradition of the AWB images.

A split-screen. On each side, a guy in black para-military type swat fatigues.

Caption: One of these men is a LAPD SWAT officer. The other is a criminal pretending to be one. Could you tell out of a dead sleep at 2 AM?

 

[Herself]

.

 

[Herself]

I kinda like that suggestion, malice!

Being a middling sound sleeper with a bedroom so located that I have a few seconds to grab my shootin' iron between front door-kicking and being confronted but no extra; and being a non-user of controlled substances, I will conclude persons making any violent entry into my home are bad guys. If it happens to be some level of LEO making a wrong-address no-knock, then there is going to be hailstorm of lead followed by a very embarrassed group of survivors. I may or may not be among 'em. Tough.

I have been held up at gunpoint twice, accosted in public by nutjobs on several occasions, and had strange and dangerous-acting men follow my car and try to run it off the road. (It must be my winning personality? Actually, it's my job, the hours I work and the neighborhoods where my apartments were, along with having lived a lot of years).* I'm not takin' chances. I used up my luck long ago.

As nearly as I can tell, ludicrous arrest techniques like no-knock raids only make life more unsafe for everyone (including SWAT team members) while doing little to curb the kinds of crime they are used against. It might do a little good to remind the LEOs -- and more to the point, their bosses! -- that they are not the only sheepdogs among the many sheep and few wolves.

The poster's semiotically vague, Oleg; I gather that you are trying to reflect the endangered citizen's own uncertainty but the plain truth is, she hasn't any: a man who kicks in the door of a peacable citizen without being invited to is a bad guy, no matter how noble his intentions or how splendid his uniform.

--Herself
_______________________
* Yes, keep on breathing and you, too can have Exciting True Tales to tell. Or, better yet, you can be careful and lucky and not have such experiences.

 

[mustanger98]

Oleg, I have an idea for a piece in the tradition of the AWB images.

A split-screen. On each side, a guy in black para-military type swat fatigues.

Caption: One of these men is a LAPD SWAT officer. The other is a criminal pretending to be one. Could you tell out of a dead sleep at 2 AM?

Now, to me, this post makes sense. I say that because I've read of people being murdered by housebreakers who used this ruse. I've also read of burglars who wore "tactical clothing" and committed murder with so-called "assault weapons" and when caught, they claimed the were "bounty hunters" and had the wrong house. In these scenarios, armed self defense makes the most sense as the way to have a chance to survive if one has the chance at said armed self defense.

 

[chrisTx]

this reminds me of those "blue helmet invasion," "SHTF," and red dawn threads i always see.

in the words of the great captain jack sparrow, "you need to find yourself a girl, mate."

 

[Kodiaz]

A long time ago (before Giuliani) in a galaxy far away (NYC). A new lucrative commodity came into existence(crack). This commidity was sold by the smart and the dumb, the weak and the strong. It was very profitable. Now those that were dumb talked way too much and would have half the known universe know when and where they would count their money. Now those that were smart would pay attention to this information and verify it. And then when the dummy had pounds of untraceable unreportable sums of money lying around these people would run in there like a bat out of hell and have all the money and be gone before anyone knew what was going on. Well other people decided this was a great way to make money so they started busting into every decent looking place in the bad areas thinking they would do the same thing. Needless to say just because someone smashes into your apartment and clears the corners doesn't make them police. Giuliani and Bratton were the best thing that ever happened to that city. But Darwin should get some credit too you can't be a dummy and operate a drug business forever.

 

[Herself]

this reminds me of those "blue helmet invasion," "SHTF," and red dawn threads i always see.

in the words of the great captain jack sparrow, "you need to find yourself a girl, mate."

Ew. I'm not really into girls, mate!

--Hersef

 

[jsalcedo]

The hipocricy of this site and its moderators has gone to the extreme.

I am out of here. goodbye

 

[Zundfolge]

I guess I never realized before just how anti any form of government is this site and many of its members. I wish you all well after you overthrow the government and have to fend for yourselves each man for himself ebcause you obviosuly will not have any trust in government. I thought this place had been full of practical people not extremists, I have now seen otherwise, and it goes to the very essence of this site.

I love how whenever there is a thread questioning some power or behavior of our government there are still people here who get all carried away and read "desire for limited government" as "desire for anarchy".

I'm assuming you consider yourself a "conservative" ... isn't limited government a "conservative value"? Or like a lot of cops who support "No-Knocks", do you think making your job "easier" and/or "safer" is more important than protecting the rights of us proles? (I put easier and safer in quotes because I don't believe no-knocks do either ... they just make cops more powerful).

Goodbye.

So are you leaving because you're afraid if you stay here that you'll end up on some government list (thus validating the fear of too much government power)? Or do you just not stick around where people might have different opinions than you...especially us serfs you're supposed to "protect and serve"?...can't stand it when your lessors get all uppity and question your authority eh?




I guess the real problem I have is with the continued militarization of our police forces.

The primary job of the military is to kill people, however the occasionaly "arrest" folk too (ie take POWs).

The primary job of law enforcement is to arrest people so that they can answer charges of criminal activity in a court of law with due process, and occasionaly are put in the unfortinate position where they have to kill someone. Thus they both protect society from criminals while at the same time protecting the accused from caprecious and unfair prosecution.

Once you start confusing military and police you end up with doing away with both the protection of society and of the rights of the accused ... you end up with Judge Dreds running around offing those they think are criminals and you end up with more "oops ... killed another innocent civilian ... oh well."



As for this poster, Oleg, I think you're trying to oversimplify a rather complex subject ... often that is the point of posters, but in this case I think there's just too little information conveyed (and no real way to convey it ... a picture is worth 1000 words, but this subject requires about 10,000 words).

Is the target of the poster the WOD? No-Knocks? Effective self defense tools? What?

 

[Zundfolge]

Bottom line if that lady does not put down whatever firearm she has really quick in the face of the DEA wrong house or not she is gonna die

I agree 100%. We must be realistic.


However I think its extremely un-American that she should ever have to face that choice.


Yes mistakes happen, but there is no legitimate reason for the large number of "No-Knock" warrants issued and executed. Clearly in a hostage situation, or terrorists setting up a bomb or something it would make sense to kick the door down and take the chance, but there have been plenty of "No-Knock" warrants issued and executed for minor drug posession charges.

Getting drugs "off our streets" is not worth the price of no American being "...secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects..."

 

[outofbattery]

I'm still wondering about Oleg's pictures of cops with guns that most of us can't own.So are those particular "JBT's" not badguys because they're special and why do they need a SAW or a suppressed M4?To mow down the poor woman with the sXs or to be able to do it in silence?Is it to come take down lawful gunowners or to persecute innocent methamphetamine enthusiasts who happen to also just like to make enough for their friends?

 

[Oleg Volk]

A split-screen. On each side, a guy in black para-military type swat fatigues.

Caption: One of these men is a LAPD SWAT officer. The other is a criminal pretending to be one. Could you tell out of a dead sleep at 2 AM?

Great idea, and more direct than the current poster. Will make it. I bet I can make an outfit that would pass for a cop in bad light for under $20 and ten minutes.

 

[carebear]

Cops aren't bad guys. LE in general is using some (to many minds) needlessly violent tactics to prosecute a WOD that many don't believe needs to be fought. At least not in that manner.

I don't have a problem with police using the guns they're issued. Easier non-LEO access to FA is a different issue.

LE and govt. are not evil, they are simply heading down an unConstitutional path and need to be reined in in some areas and reduced/removed in others.

 

[Oleg Volk]

So on one hand you make posters showing LEO's armed with belt fed weapons and in all sorts of ninja poses and then you show the need to be armed against them.Play both sides against the middle,perfect

I have no problem with LEOs using a .50 rifle to take out a hostage taker or a robber or placing contents of a Beta magazine into a carjacker.

I have serious problem with cops tossing concussion grenades into home of people not guilty of anything (by mistake or through negligence) or shooting at people whose sole crime is growing weed. The zombie manufacturing (meth) has been the unintended consequence of making more behign narcotics (opiates) harder to get...not the cops' fault, rather the fault of the same busy-bodies who brought us the previous Prohibition. The neo-Prohibitionists are the ones playing cops against other citizens, with the bad consequences for both sides.

I like most cops I know. That's what makes America different from Russia, among other factors: cops here are largely decent, resonable people. THR staff has many cops on it. My living room has a lot of cops in in on most days. I just don't think that any cops, including my friends, should be no-knocking people for any reason except saving lives from imminent harm (such as hostage extraction).