Warning by NRA Past President Marion Hammer to NRA Members

[Hummer70]

A long time shooter friend in Florida just sent this to me.

EMERGENCY ALERT! Don’t Let Them Blame You For Parkland

DATE: February 23, 2018
TO: USF & NRA Member and Friends
FROM: Marion P. Hammer
USF Executive Director
NRA Past President

Today, Governor Rick Scott, the Florida Senate and the Florida House announced their respective plans to stop future mass shooters in our schools.

There are components of the plan that we should all support. Hardening our schools, putting law enforcement in all schools when students are present, training volunteer teachers to use guns and protect children, keeping guns out of the hands of the dangerously mentally ill, and allowing law enforcement and administrators to deal with people who are a danger to themselves or others, are all things that need to be done. Unfortunately, there are gun control measures being considered as well.

The legislature is considering the following gun control measures:

1. A three day waiting period (3-Day Wait) on the purchase of all firearms. There is no way a 3-day waiting period would have stopped the Parkland murderer. He bought his gun many months before committing a planned, premeditated murder of 17 high school students and teachers. Proponents of a 3-day waiting period claim the waiting period is supposed to stop a person from running out in the heat of passion and buying a gun to kill someone. But they ignore the fact that mass shootings have all been planned in advance.

2. Ban on Bump Stocks. This was pulled out of the air to add more gun control to appease anti-gun groups. The regulation of Bump Stocks is currently being addressed by the U.S. Department of Justice. Banning something that is being worked on at the federal leveI is just an excuse to add another gun-ban-type item to the list. It had nothing to do with the Parkland shooting.

3. Raise the age limit to purchase rifles and shotguns from 18 to 21. 18 year-olds can vote, purchase a car, sign a legal contract, become a law enforcement officer, join the military and go overseas and die for our country – but they shouldn’t be able to buy a rifle or shotgun for self-defense, hunting or target shooting? This is a punitive, misguided and failed approach. The result is that a 20-year-old man or woman would not be able to purchase ANY firearm for self-defense, hunting or any other lawful purpose.

If raising the age to purchase a long gun would have stopped the Parkland killer from purchasing a gun legally how could it have stopped him from purchasing one illegally?

We must address BEHAVIOR -- and that is not accomplished with gun control. Punishing law-abiding gun owners for the acts of a criminal, instead of focusing on the abject failures of the FBI, Broward Sheriff’s office, Dept. of Children and Families, and a Deputy Sheriff who wouldn’t go into the school and stop the shooter is the wrong way to deal with this situation. We can do better.

Please EMAIL Governor Rick Scott, Senate President Joe Negron and House Speaker Richard Corcoran, incoming Senate President Bill Galvano and incoming House Speaker Jose Oliva IMMEDIATELY and tell them NO GUN CONTROL.

Urge them to provide armed security in schools and tighten mental health laws to keep guns out of the hands of those who are a danger to themselves or others BUT LEAVE THE RIGHTS OF LAW-ABIDING GUN OWNERS ALONE.

IN THE SUBJECT LINE PUT: DON’T BLAME GUN OWNERS FOR PARKLAND

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To Point 3 I would add that a young man joins the military goes to AGN by the time he's 19, loses a leg or two to a IED and comes home and is told he can't by a AR is very likely to occur. CIP I had friends who enlisted right after high school and six months later was told they were killed or maimed or MIA in Nam. One of my buddies lasted 72 hours in Nam and got mortared and was back home in 5 months.

 

[psyopspec]

I thought the NRA endorsed the banning of bump stocks. They don’t seem to be saying anything about the POTUS they endorsed supporting a ban. If the NRA’s position has changed it would be good communications strategy to share why that’s so.

 

[Cayce Charles]

I thought the NRA endorsed the banning of bump stocks. They don’t seem to be saying anything about the POTUS they endorsed supporting a ban. If the NRA’s position has changed it would be good communications strategy to share why that’s so.

Maybe some here do read the NRA site daily, I don't. Is it members fault or the NRA's to keep us updated.

 

[AlexanderA]

I learn from other sources that Marion Hammer was responsible for killing Florida open carry, and Florida campus carry. For that she's paid $300,000 a year. Some Florida gun activists hate her with a passion.

 

[barnbwt]

"Don't blame us, blame yourselves (<21 NRA members) and your things (bump stocks)"

Well, except now that her endorsement of these policies convinced the anti's to make a putsch that is realistically going to pass, she spins around and begs donations to oppose the same people she emboldened.

Do not forget she called people fed up with these compromised NRA leaders "the enemy within"

 

[psyopspec]

Maybe some here do read the NRA site daily, I don't. Is it members fault or the NRA's to keep us updated.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at WRT frequency of visiting the site. Can you say more?

And yes, I do believe any organization owed its members (and potential members) reasonable communication with updates in timely issues, changes to positions, etc.

 

[Sav .250]

NRA-ILA...... Legislation Action.

 

[Bigmike79]

I'm actually somewhat OK with a 3 day waiting period for first time gun owners providing the state offers some form of a safe-house for those which claim to have a direct threat. You can't get a carry permit in 3 days in every state that requires one anyways. It wouldn't have done anything in the Florida shooting, but crimes of passion happen all the time.

 

[BSA1]

I learn from other sources that Marion Hammer was responsible for killing Florida open carry, and Florida campus carry.

What is your source?

Or just Internet trolling?

 

[LiveLife]

I'm actually somewhat OK with a 3 day waiting period for first time gun owners providing the state offers some form of a safe-house for those which claim to have a direct threat. You can't get a carry permit in 3 days in every state that requires one anyways. It wouldn't have done anything in the Florida shooting, but crimes of passion happen all the time.

10 day waiting period has not stopped crimes in California.

And we have one handgun a month limit (no such limit on long gun) ... Yeah, I am trying really hard to meet that quota each year (only bought 5 guns last year ... told my wife I have to try harder in 2018).

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I'm actually somewhat OK with a 3 day waiting period for first time gun owners providing the state offers some form of a safe-house for those which claim to have a direct threat. You can't get a carry permit in 3 days in every state that requires one anyways. It wouldn't have done anything in the Florida shooting, but crimes of passion happen all the time.

Florida already has a 3 day wait on handguns, and crimes of passion are very rarely committed with long guns......

 

[Bigmike79]

Florida already has a 3 day wait on handguns, and crimes of passion are very rarely committed with long guns......

Oh, I was under the impression that it was for all guns. I agree that if makes very little difference with a rifle.

When I think about a crime of passion, I think about your typical scumbag stalker type that can't handle the fact that his girlfriend broke up with him. Honestly, a lot of those types of murders are done with bare hands and melee weapons, so who really knows how much a waiting period even on a handgun helps? I want to say that I remember reading something about women being murdered by their partners or former partners being just about as high in western Europe as it is in the states despite the fact that there are very few guns.

 

[Bigmike79]

10 day waiting period has not stopped crimes in California.

And we have one handgun a month limit (no such limit on long gun) ... Yeah, I am trying really hard to meet that quota each year (only bought 5 guns last year ... told my wife I have to try harder in 2018).

Neither have cops, prisons, or any other law.
Nothing will stop crime completely, but to say that no lives have been saved because of waiting periods is ignorant. It can be debated all day as to how many lives or if it's worth it, but obviously in a state with over 40 million people, there have been scenarios were a crime was prevented because someone had a little bit of time to cool off or ponder the consequences of the crime they were about to commit.

There are normal clean cut guys that have never committed a crime in their life that snap. It happens all the time. A lot of these guys don't already own a gun, and wouldn't even begin to know where to buy one on the black market in a reasonable amount of time. Waiting periods are designed for these types, not Johnny gangbanger who will just buy a piece from some thug down the street any time he wants.

 

[LiveLife]

My point is, if someone was determined to kill somebody, waiting period whether 3 days or 10 days, won't change the outcome.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Oh, I was under the impression that it was for all guns. I agree that if makes very little difference with a rifle.

When I think about a crime of passion, I think about your typical scumbag stalker type that can't handle the fact that his girlfriend broke up with him. Honestly, a lot of those types of murders are done with bare hands and melee weapons, so who really knows how much a waiting period even on a handgun helps? I want to say that I remember reading something about women being murdered by their partners or former partners being just about as high in western Europe as it is in the states despite the fact that their are very few guns.

Nobody drives to the gunshop, fills out a form, waits for the background check and drives home to shoot their significant whoever. They grab what's at hand- handgun, kitchen knife, beer bottle, etc. And if the folks doing the background check(usually Florida Department of Law Enforcement through the NCIS here) need more time, they can always give you a conditional non-approval and delay the process by days or weeks.

It would be an incrediblely foolish FFL that would expose themselves to litagation or media vilification by selling to someone seething with anger too- though I guess it probably does happen.

No need to seek out a back-alley dealer either- the easiet ways to obtain a handgun in a hurry without a BC would be a (legal), person-to-person transfer arranged via Armslist or the local classifieds that still accept gun related ads.

These waiting period schemes are nothing more than props politicians have used to say "Look! I'm doing something about guns! Vote for me!"

 

[Bigmike79]

Nobody drives to the gunshop, fills out a form, waits for the background check and drives home to shoot their significant whoever. "

It's not the norm, but it does happen more often than one would think.

I think the argument is that if they couldn't, they're probably going to just use something else. Especially with male on female attacks.

No need to seek out a back-alley dealer either- the easiet ways to obtain a handgun in a hurry without a BC would be a (legal), person-to-person transfer arranged via Armslist or the local classifieds that still accept gun related ads.

If you live in a state that you can do that in. They just changed the law with person to person transfers in my state. The banned temporary transfers too. I can't even let my brother borrow one of my hunting rifles now.

 

[Sistema1927]

I'm actually somewhat OK with a 3 day waiting period for first time gun owners providing the state offers some form of a safe-house for those which claim to have a direct threat. You can't get a carry permit in 3 days in every state that requires one anyways. It wouldn't have done anything in the Florida shooting, but crimes of passion happen all the time.

Somewhat OK with infringement? Even if it wouldn't do anything? Sheesh, We have met the enemy, and it is us.

 

[LiveLife]

We have been pushed by the antis for decades.

My sentiment is all the "compromises and sacrifices" we gave in to are never going to be enough for antis.

I say we stop and push back like antis have for the next several decades.

Let them "compromise" for a change.

 

[barnbwt]

Well, if we ever saw an example of someone who tried & failed to murder in a crime of passion because of a wait period, let alone someone who was dissuaded, you might have a point.

Life isn't like some half-baked storyline in your head. Really think like a murderous scumbag; nothing else matters but killing the target, and there is no plan for afterwards.

Now, how does lack of a handgun stop them from doing wrong?

I've found nearly all of these 'it could save some lives' arguments largely stem from lack of earnest thought about the specific mechanisms of these policies & their consequences. Heck, in my youth I thought I was so intellectual and reasoned since I thought murders could be prevented by banning 9mm handguns, as opposed to assault rifles which kill hardly anyone by comparison. I didn't eveb know about 40S&W, or 380ACP (let alone planet-killer 45ACP). Obviously banning 9mm would simply push killers and crooks to alternatives.

Lack of thought and knowledge.

 

[barnbwt]

We have been pushed by the antis for decades.

My sentiment is all the "compromises and sacrifices" we gave in to are never going to be enough for antis.

I say we stop and push back like antis have for the next several decades.

Let them "compromise" for a change.

Well, we're sure swinging for the fences in going for a ban on bump stocks and raising the age limit. Unilaterally. Oh, and farting around on doing anything with the massively popular HPA and Reciprocity bills, until a statistically predictable mass shooting of some type scares them off the docket (again)

 

[LiveLife]

Obviously banning 9mm would simply push killers and crooks to alternatives.

I am sure people in countries where guns are banned wish they had something more than knives to protect themselves when they get attacked by gun wielding attackers.

I prefer to bring a gun to a knife fight.

I prefer to bring a bigger gun to a gun fight ... why I sleep with an AR chambered for .300 BLK as a "nightstand" gun in addition to 40S&W Glocks.

And why do we need guns for self protection? Because there are deranged and crazy people who keep killing other people.

 

[barnbwt]

Exactly; whether or not crooks choose other means (and they always do) the law abiding cannot. At least not in a way that retains effectiveness (see all the idiot teachers suggesting baseball bats instead of guns, quite possibly the most brutish mean possible for defense, and hopelessly unsuitable to the vast majority of teacher demographics. I've had one giant ethnic Norseman as a teacher; even he would have a hard time making a bat a useful weapon against a gunman)

 

[Bigmike79]

Somewhat OK with infringement? Even if it wouldn't do anything? Sheesh, We have met the enemy, and it is us.

Waiting periods save lives. To say otherwise would be to deny reality. I come from a law enforcement background, so my perspective is different than a lot of gun owners on some of these boards.

If your stance is that you don't care that they save lives because you feel that compromising a first time gun owners rights is the more important variable, I can respect your view. However, if your stance is that waiting periods don't actually stop crimes of passion, I will wholeheartedly disagree with you because I know better.

I realize admitting something like this is often the kiss of death on an online forum. Look, I get it. My dad thought having to even show a valid ID to buy a gun was an infringement on his rights. I understand that mindset very well.

 

[hdwhit]

Hummer70 wrote:
A long time shooter friend in Florida just sent this to me.

People who do not live in Florida should not waste their time responding to the politicians named in the e-mail. If you're not a Florida resident, you can't vote in Florida elections so Florida politicians don't care what you think.

 

[hdwhit]

Nightlord 40K wrote:
Nobody drives to the gunshop, fills out a form, waits for the background check and drives home to shoot their significant whoever

Sure they do.

In fact, some people use the three days as an opportunity to nurture their hated rather than as a cooling off period.