Weapons assessment

[ojibweindian]

I need some input concerning my current home and self-defense weaponry. I currently own a Winchester Model 70 in .30-06, a Yugo M48A, a .38 Special revolver, a .22 mag, and a single-shot 12 gauge.

My .30-06 serves as my GP hunting rifle; the mauser serves as a back up. The single-shot 12 gauge and the .22 mag serves in small game hunting and pest control duties. Obvioulsy, the .38's role is home and self defense.

I do believe I need something with a bit more oomph to it to serve as a dedicated HD weapon, and I am torn between a 4" .357 and a 12 gauge pump. I am aware of the obvious advantages to each; what I need to know are the subtle differences that would sway me in one direction or another.

Thanks for any input.

 

[Logistar]

Personally, I would stay with the .38 special (with +P ammo maybe). As far as shotguns go I'd better let someone else help with that one.

Inside the house, the extra noise and muzzle flash of the .357 is not worth it to me. (I have a .38 special as my primary HD weapon.)

YMMV
Logistar

 

[azrael]

stick with the .38 special for a HD pistol...

get yourself a mossberg 500 pump...either 20 gauge or 12...doesnt matter much...Pistol grip is fine but I prefer a shoulder stock...add a weapons light and a side saddel shell carrier w/ some 2 3/4 buckshot and your ready to go..


my .02 peso's

 

[Werewolf]

I do believe I need something with a bit more oomph to it to serve as a dedicated HD weapon, and I am torn between a 4" .357 and a 12 gauge pump. I am aware of the obvious advantages to each; what I need to know are the subtle differences that would sway me in one direction or another.

Personally I'd go with the .357 (or a good .45ACP). Here's why...

I know a lot of folks say Shot Gun for home defense but in my opinion and based on my personal experience they are too big, too heavy and just get in the way in a home sized environment. (If sawed off's - say with a 10" to 12" barrel were legal I'd probably think differently).

If one is serious about home defense then it seems to me that one should have their weapon with them at all times. Lugging around a shotgun (or just moving it room to room) all the time is pretty much not viable - packing a pistol on your hip is. After all - one doesn't know when a break in is going to occur, whether it will be day or night or while you are awake or sleeping. One cannot assume that any breakin will occur at night while you are in the bedroom and all you need to do is reach over and grab a weapon. In my estimation any robber with half an IQ is gonna do his thing when no one is home but if not then he oughta go in during the hours when folks are awake, watching TV in the family room and their weapon is locked up in the safe or tucked away in the bedroom. Home defense is not a part time job though I suspect most folks treat it as such.

My situation is such that if my home is ever invaded it's layout makes it imperative that I go into a search and destroy mode. Moving around in narrow hallways with a shotgun is just plain out of the question. Would using a shotgun increase my chances of getting a hit in a hallway - maybe - but it would definitely reduce mobility and mobility is critical in my estimation.

If my situation was such that I was willing to let invaders do as they will with the house and I would only respond if they entered my bedroom then a 12 ga with 7 or so shot magazine might be the way to go if the scenario is breakin after dark - everyone asleep.

The weapon(s) you choose for home defense should be based on:

1) your experience and training level with the weapons available to you
2) the tactical situation you imagine that you may find your self in
3) the ability to respond flexibly to a situation you may not have anticipated

Think ahead of the game and choose accordingly.

 

[sturmruger]

I have the 12 ga and a .38 if I was holed up in one room, or needed to go outside I would stick with the shotgun. If there were ever a reason to move around then I would opt for the .38.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Shotgun. Rule 2 of gunfighting: Bring a bigger gun. Make mine a shotgun with extended magazine.

 

[MikeJ]

I currently use a .357 loaded with .38+P 125 grain Speer Gold Dots for HD and feel relatively well armed. As has been mentioned before, the blast and flash of the .357 might be more of a hinderance than a help. I have to admit that I have debated this subject with others and myself many times over as to what is the ideal HD gun/caliber etc. A shotgun is obviously more potent than a .38 so if I were in your shoes and wanted to up my HD capabilities I would add a shotgun to the mix and not worry about a more powerful handgun. With modern day .38+P hollowpoints you should be well served in that capacity.

 

[roo_ster]

I love my revos and dearly love my S&W 686.

But, have you ever fired a revo with full-power .357 mag rounds in a low-light situation? It ain't the muzzle flash that'll blind you...it is the cylander/forcing cone gap flash, esp with hot 125gr .357s.

A lower pressure round like the .38 spl, while not sexy, ought to be OK. If you can get a lower pressure round in a larger diameter, better.

Lotsa trade-offs in HD. Make the trades you think best. Being armed with a .38spl with the classic 158gr LSWC +P is not poorly armed, IMO.

 

[eyz]

Your well armed as is but if you should decide to adjust to a more tactical collection.

12g single shot - trade, sell, or keep then get a 12g pump with 18" barrell
38 revolver keep as a second house gun but add a good compact or subcompact in 9,40, or 45(preferred). A mount for a light would be good too.

I have shot a 357 indoors and do not use it for home defense. You can't hear squat for hours. How do you talk to police or lawyer if you can't hear.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Shotgun.

Those who say it hampers your movement are subtly telling you to be moving around. In a home intrusion, STAY PUT. Let the bad guy come to you.

 

[ojibweindian]

I can't sell the single-shot 12 gauge as that was my first gun, ever. My father gave it to me as a present on my 10th birthday; as such, it has great sentimental value.

 

[SLCDave]

Staying put is only an option if your whole family is already in one room. If you have to defend the lives of family members in other rooms, staying put is not an option. You must prepare for different situations.

 

[Werewolf]

SLCDave pointed out that:

Staying put is only an option if your whole family is already in one room. If you have to defend the lives of family members in other rooms, staying put is not an option. You must prepare for different situations.

Exactly - as they say the best laid battle plan lasts until first contact.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
----------------------------------------
Staying put is only an option if your whole family is already in one room. If you have to defend the lives of family members in other rooms, staying put is not an option. You must prepare for different situations.
-----------------------------------------

Only people who have planned and prepared have options. What this sounds like is advice not to plan and practice.

Pick the safe room. Practice assembling in the safe room.

If you think there might be reasons why you can't safely assemble, write them down, develop appropriate actions, and drill them until you know they work.

I spent over 40 years developing doctrine and training for the Army (and for other forces) and always heard the complaint "every situation is different."

But as George Frazier McDonald said, "The Kama Sutra purports to have 99 positions for having sex. It's all balderdash -- number 87 is the same as number 3, but you have your fingers crossed."

And that's how tactical situations usually work out -- you can pretend there are unlimited scenarios, but when you examine them, you find there are really only two or three.

And in a home invasion, staying put is usually the best solution for all of them -- after all, in a home intrusion, a dead defender is the most useless thing imaginable.

 

[itgoesboom]

Easy answer:

Get the shotgun.

Really, it comes down to the fact that handguns, whether .25, .380, 38sp, 9mm, .45, or .44mag are all reletivly poor stoppers compared to a rifle or a shotgun. The saying goes "you use a pistol to fight your way to your rifle/shotgun", and its true.

If you are ever in the situation where you have to defend your life and the lives of your family members, you will want a weapon that is capable of ending the fight decisivly.

A pistol may or may not stop the bad guy quick enough. That is one of the reasons why you see all the 9mm vs. 40 vs .45 debates that go on in forums. Notice that you don't ever really see any 9mm vs 12ga debates?

That tells you something.

I.G.B.

 

[Drjones]

I'm a bit concerned that you actually have to think about choosing between a .357 or 12 for primary defense.

No offense intended.

 

[ducktapehero]

I say stick with the 38. Like has been mentioned, it's a lot more pleasent to shoot than a 357 inside your house. Also quicker and easier to make follow up shots. I only had a 38 for years and felt very safe with it. Get some good ammo and a few speedloaders and you're good to go. I sure as hell wouldn't argue with someone who was pointing a 38 at me.

 

[Drjones]

I sure as hell wouldn't argue with someone who was pointing a 38 at me.

I wouldn't argue with someone who was pointing a BB gun at me.

That doesn't mean it should be your first choice for home defense.

 

[itgoesboom]

Jones just hit the nail on the head.

Also, just because a person felt that they were well armed with a .38 doesn't mean that they actually were well armed.

I felt well armed when I carried a .380 daily, but I am a lot better armed with a 9mm now.

Keep your .38, but let it be your backup to something better suited for the job.

I.G.B.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

A shotgun has two very real advantages.

First of all, it's designed to be shot by pointing, not by being sighted. The physical construction of the gun, the way it aligns your eye with the direction of fire, the separation of the hands, all allow you to shoot it even in poor light.

On the other hand, a handgun is very difficult to shoot well under those conditions.

And let's face it -- guns are for shooting when the chips are down.

Secondly, it has a very high intimidation factor. When you're holding a handgun, and your knees are knocking and your teeth chattering (and they WILL be) you're sending a message, "you can take this gun away from me."

When you're holding a shotgun the message is, "This thing is about to go off!"

 

[ducktapehero]

Let me add to what I said. Dr Jones said it shouldn't be your 1st choice. I (kinda) disagree with him. As far as handguns go it is an excellent choice. Low recoil, double action revolvers are very easy to manipulate under stress, will not deafen or blind you if you have to use it. If you have to move around the house I would suggest sticking with the 38. Of course other low pressure handgun rounds would work too. The 45 comes to mind.

If you plan to stay put then get you the pump 12 gauge. I don't think long guns are the best idea when searching your house at nighttime. The guy who broke into your house is a lot more awake than you and might know where you are at. But if you're in your bedroom armed with the 12 gauge and he decides to break into the room you're in then it would suck to be him.

 

[Drjones]

Low recoil, double action revolvers are very easy to manipulate under stress, will not deafen or blind you if you have to use it.

A few thoughts:

- A Glock would be ideal too, due to its lack of any external safety.

- Reloading a revolver is NOT something I would like to try under stress. If you have years and years of practice and experience with them, fine. Otherwise, I think its a bad choice. Putting six little pegs into six little holes = fine motor skill. We all know that's the first to go under stress.

- Many people do not really hear the gunshots. You kinda get "tunnel vision" and "tunnel hearing" in SD situations.

- As far as muzzle flash goes, well, it shouldn't be an issue because you shouldn't be walking around your house in the dark if you are investigating a noise.

 

[ducktapehero]

I agree with ya on the Glock. But if I already had a 38 I would buy a shotgun before I got a new handgun. As far as reloading it, your mostly right but most home break ins are usually resolved in a couple shots. I said mostly right because I have a 45acp revolver with moonclips and it's a breeze to load. As easy as putting a magazine in. Of course its got bigger holes than the 38. That's why I got it. I love my 38 but wanted something I could load faster if I needed to. I didn't get an auto because I shoot revolvers better.

 

[itgoesboom]

DuckTapeHero,

Let me address a few of the things you mention.

1st. If a shotgun or rifle are too long to be usefull in clearing a house, than why is it almost all police SWAT teams, warrant teams, or any other entry team mainly use carbines and shotguns when they clear houses?

2nd. The aggressor may be more awake, true. But that is just one more reason to use a weapon that is easier to point and score hits with.

3rd. Really, honestly, when you honestly think someone is in your home, and you reach for a weapon, you wake up dang quickly, trust me.

4th. You know your home best!!! He is an invader, and he probably has never been in there before. YOU have the advantage, you know the angles, where there is decent concealment, and maybe even cover.

5th. Every firearms trainer will teach you that clearing a home by yourself is asking for trouble. It is almost impossible to clear a house properly with only one person. So, realistically, you should plan on going forward only as far as you need to to get between the threat and your family. Get your family to a safe room baricade, and guard the door while the cavalry arrives. No point acting like John Wayne and getting your butt shot off just so that don't have to replace your $69 DVD player. It ain't worth it.

I.G.B.

 

[ducktapehero]

1st. If a shotgun or rifle are too long to be usefull in clearing a house, than why is it almost all police SWAT teams, warrant teams, or any other entry team mainly use carbines and shotguns when they clear houses?

They also go in in groups. If someone grabs one of their guns they get shot by someone else. You don't have someone behind you covering you.

2nd. The aggressor may be more awake, true. But that is just one more reason to use a weapon that is easier to point and score hits with.

You're right but I still think a handgun is better to search your house with. Practice Practice Practice with your handgun or whatever you use.

3rd. Really, honestly, when you honestly think someone is in your home, and you reach for a weapon, you wake up dang quickly, trust me.

You're right but he will be a lot more ready than you. He planned this, you didn't.

4th. You know your home best!!! He is an invader, and he probably has never been in there before. YOU have the advantage, you know the angles, where there is decent concealment, and maybe even cover.

You're right, but this also depends on the house. In my house it isn't much of an advantage. In a bigger house this helps more. He may know a little about your house though. If he is not just a drugged up junkie he has probably tried to learn as much as he could about the layout of your house.

5th. Every firearms trainer will teach you that clearing a home by yourself is asking for trouble. It is almost impossible to clear a house properly with only one person. So, realistically, you should plan on going forward only as far as you need to to get between the threat and your family. Get your family to a safe room baricade, and guard the door while the cavalry arrives. No point acting like John Wayne and getting your butt shot off just so that don't have to replace your $69 DVD player. It ain't worth it.

Absolutely, I agree with you 100%. I never said that I suggest going out and looking for him. I just think IF you have to leave your room then a handgun is better in most circumstances. What if you have to carry a baby to your safe room. Of course if you live in a big house with lots of room to maneuver then use your best judgement. I will admit I am using my house as I think about this. In my house I would use a handgun IF I had to search, which I wouldn't, I'd grab my shotgun and wait there.