What Does a Bad Guy Look Like?

[Kleanbore]

In the latest edition of his Rangemaster Newsletter, Tom Givens inluded an excellent piece from Greg Ellefritz.

The news in my area in the last week or so has related assault after assault, and robbery after robbery. Increasing numbers of the victims have been motorists.

It's a bit like the fictional "Wild West", but it's real.

In screen fiction, the good guy always recognizes the bad guy timely and dispatches him with martial arts, fists, or firearms.

In real life, we do not want to react that way, even if we think we are equipped to do so. Our objective is to mitigate the risk and to avoid being victimized. We want to not stop at that location at that time, or if we have already stopped, we want to scoot. We want to get gas elsewhere. We want to go back into the store. We will only resort to something rougher if it has come to the last resort for self preservation.

Of course, we do have to recognize the bad fellow timely. Unlike screen fiction, they do not all have long sideburns and black hats; the camera does not focus on them before they strike; and there's no ominous music to let us know that danger is upon us.

Greg Ellefritz has prepared a good article on the subject, linked below.

This is not something to be read once and filed. Unless the reader thinks carefully about everything having to do with the subject and starts practicing the observation skills discussed in the article, this will be wasted.

Do with it what you wish.

www.activeresponsetraining.net/how-to-spot-a-bad-guy-a-comprehensive-look-at-body-language-and-pre-assault-indicators

 

[bdickens]

It isn't about their clothes or their grooming. Its about their behavior.

Bad guys don't look a certain way. Bad guys behave a certain way.

 

[Old Dog]

Ellefritz's article is a good review. Much of what he says, though, gets back to one central issue: situational awareness. Understanding attack indicators is all good, but often by the time you recognize them, the fight is already on.

Bad guys don't look a certain way.

Well, actually, sometimes they do look a certain way... The good news, however, is that prison ink (and gang tattoos) for the most part, is easily recognizable. Teach your family how to identify it. Ellefritz seems to be a tad bit p.c. in his final, brief comments about profiling based on appearance and other factors, but for the private citizen, if you're not profiling, you're not paying attention. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I try to steer clear of the guy in the Wal-Mart check-out line -- or out on street -- who's got "187" and "5150" tattooed on his face, dual lightning bolts or "13" inked on his neck, along with three teardrops under one eye...

 

[1942bull]

Interesting article that ought to be carefully considered. I think it offers good pointers. Situational awareness always includes your surroundings, escape lanes, available cover, and threats which are normally people but could be an animal. I employ a threat assessment standard that we used in Nam. It was relavent because we were always exposed to attack i]anywhere by Viet Cong. That was a specially true when off duty in town or city.
We defined four threat levels: threat, probable threat, possible threat, and no threat. Here are four examples. Two Marines are walking toward you = no threat. A woman is approaching and is pushing a baby carriage = possible threat. The approaching woman stops abruptly and reaches into the carriage = probable threat. The woman pulls out an AK 47 = threat. Awareness must be accompanied by assessment. Assessment must be accompanied by evasion if required.

 

[Lnf Crzr]

Situation awareness is always needed, And reading between the lines.

Image is just a attempt at some humor- Yet this is a very serious subject. And a very good one to bring up.

Excellent thread to start Kleanbore

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

What's the saying, something like "Be professional, courteous and have a plan to kill everyone you meet."

That thought process doesn't involve stereotypes or race, just a constant general awareness.

 

[Kleanbore]

What's the saying, something like "Be professional, courteous and have a plan to kill everyone you meet."

A indicated in of our stick threads, that one has helped to cause great problems among juries for persons who have quoted that phrase.

 

[JTHunter]

What's the saying, something like "Be professional, courteous and have a plan to kill everyone you meet."

That thought process doesn't involve stereotypes or race, just a constant general awareness.

"Shoot 'em all. Let God sort it out !"

 

[Jeff White]

I don’t know what to say. It’s late in 2021 and pithy comments online have been used in criminal and civil trials to convince juries that someone was looking for a fight and therefore he might have not used good judgement in a self defense encounter.

Once again, you aren’t in the line at the range, you aren’t enjoying an adult beverage after a good day’s shooting and you aren’t chewing the fat with the guys at the gun shop counter on a rainy Saturday afternoon.

You are on an Internet gun forum saying something that will be there forever. If you are involved in a self defense shooting the investigators will find it and some attorney may decide those words can be used to help convict you or get a nice fat settlement for their client that the attorney will collect a nice percentage of.

 

[Kleanbore]

I employ a threat assessment standard that we used in Nam. It was relavent because we were always exposed to attack i]anywhere by Viet Cong. That was a specially true when off duty in town or city

I should not think that that approach would have any use whatsoever here at home.

It certainly does not cover any of the things that Greg Ellifritz mentioned.

 

[Ranger99]

That guy ^ ^ ^ with the tattoos
Guy with saggy britches and his drawers
hanging out
Uses em eff every other word
Reeks of dope smoke
Lots of things

 

[westernrover]

The "bad guy" is the one in court called the "defendant." There, all the state's prosecution team is determined to convince everyone that he is the bad guy. On the street, nobody is going to act as convinced or as convincing. If you have become particularly adept at bringing "bad guys" to court to become "defendants" as evidenced by a high conviction rate, you might have some business looking for them on the street. Otherwise, you are better off making sure that you're not one of them yourself.

 

[earlthegoat2]

The military, unfortunately, teaches you very little about the nuances of civilian self defense even if it does teach you about the tools and raw techniques.

Doing as much damage as possible to your enemy is simple and effective but really has no place in civilian self defense situations unless you want to find yourself removed from society.

 

[FL-NC]

sadam hussein was a very snappy and well-groomed dresser. As was al capone, el chapo, and pablo escobar. I don't ever recall seeing pictures of hitler in anything but a finely tailored uniform, or nicely dressed in civies. For me (especially during the warmer months) with my buzz-cut, visible tattoos, scars, and missing teeth (all souvenirs of military service) and Harley, I have been told I look like a "bad guy". I don't consider myself one, nor do people who actually know me. Don't judge a book by its cover.

 

[1942bull]

I should not think that that approach would have any use whatsoever here at home.

It certainly does not cover any of the things that Greg Ellifritz mentioned.

You made a good point that made me realize I had described a situation not likely to be encountered here. The the threat standard I described do not directly address Ellifritz’ described criteria, but they do support his approach. That approach is to be aware of the environment and people that might be a possible or probable threat. He actually was advocating that threat analysis by observations of other’s actions, body language, etc is an important facet of self defense.

My threat analysis categories simply rely on the kind of observations Ellifritz recommends. With that thought in mind I offer some scenarios that are firing to our daily life here.

No threat: A man is up the street from you has a baseball bat in his hand. You notice that he is with a boy that has a baseball glove on his hand. It is reasonable to assume it is an innocent situation that presents no threat.

Possible threat: A man up the street has a baseball bat in his hand. He is alone and watching you approach. His gaze does not waver. He is watching you as you approach. His motivation is unknown, but he might possibly be sizing you up. It is possible he intends you harm.

Probable threat: The man up the street is acting like the man described above as a “possible” threat. As you get closer he places the bat on his shoulder and grips it with both hands as he stay fixed on you. As you approach. His body actions indicate that he could be getting ready to swing the bat (a possibly at you). You have to assume he likely is a threat.

Threat: The above “probable” threat scenario suddenly changes. The man starts to run toward you. You feel threatened. Than he raises bat as he gets even closer. He is a absolutely a threat.

So I am saying Ellifritz is correct, and I am describing how I classify threats based upon a situation, which is what Ellifritz wrote about.

 

[Jack Ryan]

sadam hussein was a very snappy and well-groomed dresser. As was al capone, el chapo, and pablo escobar. I don't ever recall seeing pictures of hitler in anything but a finely tailored uniform, or nicely dressed in civies. For me (especially during the warmer months) with my buzz-cut, visible tattoos, scars, and missing teeth (all souvenirs of military service) and Harley, I have been told I look like a "bad guy". I don't consider myself one, nor do people who actually know me. Don't judge a book by its cover.

NO ONE considers their SELF to be a "bad" guy.

 

[Seedy Character]

"Situational Awareness" is the main objective. Stay focused. The "bad guy(s)" wants the distracted, easy prey.
Is there a bad "look"? Yes, but it doesn't mean 100% of those are bad. Doesn't mean your profiling or situational awareness should be overlooked, either. The key point is "actions".
Are they paying particular to you? Following you? Unnecessarily approaching you? Surrounding you? Pay attention.
Looking like a "bad guy" can be a defense, also. Looking like a "victim" is what you want to avoid.
A major part of situanal awareness is to know areas to avoid to begin with. I live in a small town, but we go to the city a couple times a month. There are 2 Wally Wawa there. We avoid that place, if at all possible. There are a couple of items, we can't get anywhere else. The closest store is known throughout the area as "Ghetto Mart". Robberies and car jackings happen regularly (3/week), regardless of time of day. We do not go there, but drive 15 miles, across town, to the other store.
Situational awareness can begin long before the situation arises.

Good article/great thread

 

[Dibbs]

As to "touching the neck and face", junkies do a lot of face and neck scratching. If a junky is close to you, he's probably not collecting for the Red Cross.
IME, when I've recognized BGs, (they've decided to select easier prey, up to this point) you may notice a complete stranger, usually a little seedy or creepy, is paying you an undue amount of attention. Most folks are going about their day, doing their tasks, and chores, and applying their attention to their mission of the day.

 

[Seedy Character]

" decided to select easier prey, up to this point) you may notice a complete stranger, usually a little seedy or creepy, is paying you an undue amount of attention. Most folks are going about their day, doing their tasks, and chores, and applying their attention to their mission of the day."

Exactly! Lack of awareness.
When they see that you are watching them, their attention shifts elsewhere. Being noticed is not conducive to their agenda.

 

[luzyfuerza]

Greg's presentation of these principles is great. Here's another presentation discussing the same ideas from Mas Ayoob:

https://www.backwoodshome.com/body-language-and-threat-recognition/

Going beyond the principle of threat recognition itself, how do we use the cues that we now see? Paraphrasing Mas' concluding paragraphs,

1) We escape and evade, if it can be done safely,

2) If the threat comes so quickly that we cannot avoid it through escape, then threat recognition can sometimes buy us just enough time to react swiftly enough to effectively defend ourselves and our loved ones. The early warning can sometimes make the difference between life and death for us and other innocents.

 

[Kleanbore]

Here's another presentation discussing the same ideas from Mas Ayoob:

Thanks much!

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

A indicated in of our stick threads, that one has helped to cause great problems among juries for persons who have quoted that phrase.

Anyone care to translate this for me?

I'm not sure what happened to Mr Bore but this response doesn't seem very Klean at all.

 

[Jeff White]

Anyone care to translate this for me?

This is what Kleanbore is referring to:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/the-rules-please-read-before-posting-in-st-t.561603/
Regarding the second, members of the public, like most of us, abhor violence and do not generally approve of those whom they perceive to advocate unnecessary harm to others. For this reason, “blood lust” is off limits here. Comments such as “we have the castle doctrine, and anyone who comes into my house has forfeited his right to live”, “I’ll shoot to kill”, “dead men do not tell tales”, or “move out of your liberal state and move to Texas where we shoot ‘em” will not be permitted. This list is intended to be illustrative and is not all-inclusive.

ST&T is in effect a “one room school house” in which experienced and new “students” can learn together and share knowledge. Many of our members have less knowledge and less experience than others. We do not want anyone put off by a curt or critical response to a legitimate question. Serious questions deserve serious answers. Personal attacks on other members will not be tolerated.

Everyone who posts here or anywhere else on the Internet should understand that such posts are permanent, and they may be subject to discovery in legal proceedings at any time in the future. Should any member ever find himself or herself involved in such proceedings, posts containing comments that could be interpreted unfavorably could prove damaging.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I don’t know what to say. It’s late in 2021 and pithy comments online have been used in criminal and civil trials to convince juries that someone was looking for a fight and therefore he might have not used good judgement in a self defense encounter.

Once again, you aren’t in the line at the range, you aren’t enjoying an adult beverage after a good day’s shooting and you aren’t chewing the fat with the guys at the gun shop counter on a rainy Saturday afternoon.

You are on an Internet gun forum saying something that will be there forever. If you are involved in a self defense shooting the investigators will find it and some attorney may decide those words can be used to help convict you or get a nice fat settlement for their client that the attorney will collect a nice percentage of.

You are correct on all fronts.

We ARE talking stereotypes in this thread so I feel it only fair to point out what most/many are thinking but don't want to say. If you are a straight, white, conservative God fearing person who defends themselves against anything other than that, you will be crucified.

Your options are few but they're there. Come to terms with them, I know I have.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

This is what Kleanbore is referring to:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/the-rules-please-read-before-posting-in-st-t.561603/
Regarding the second, members of the public, like most of us, abhor violence and do not generally approve of those whom they perceive to advocate unnecessary harm to others. For this reason, “blood lust” is off limits here. Comments such as “we have the castle doctrine, and anyone who comes into my house has forfeited his right to live”, “I’ll shoot to kill”, “dead men do not tell tales”, or “move out of your liberal state and move to Texas where we shoot ‘em” will not be permitted. This list is intended to be illustrative and is not all-inclusive.

ST&T is in effect a “one room school house” in which experienced and new “students” can learn together and share knowledge. Many of our members have less knowledge and less experience than others. We do not want anyone put off by a curt or critical response to a legitimate question. Serious questions deserve serious answers. Personal attacks on other members will not be tolerated.

Everyone who posts here or anywhere else on the Internet should understand that such posts are permanent, and they may be subject to discovery in legal proceedings at any time in the future. Should any member ever find himself or herself involved in such proceedings, posts containing comments that could be interpreted unfavorably could prove damaging.

Well thats much clearer.

I don't see how that fits with what I posted that he responded to though.

The second part of my quote which seems to be causing some frustration, "have a plan to kill everyone you meet", is simply preparedness. Its not "blood lust" or anything else.

I don't doubt though, that commie DA's or general lawyers would have a field day trying to twist that statement.