dukefan70
Member
What's the difference (besides the weight) between a G.I. Pencil barrel on an AR and a regular barrel? Bushmaster has one on their "Superlight" carbine. Anything to be wary of w/ a G.I. Pencil barrel? Pros and cons?
What is a G.I. Pencil barrel?
- Thread starter dukefan70
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Cons: Thinner bbl is going to be less rigid, it is going to heat up quicker effecting accuracy during sustained fire, lighter front end means there will be more recoil, leading to slightly lower double taps.
Pros: Light weight, less metal means it cools down faster, the 5.56 does not kick real hard anyways.
I'm an Hbar fan myself do to the heat/recoil absorbtion factors, but I pay for that with a heavier rifle. But the lighter profiles DO have their place.
Pros: Light weight, less metal means it cools down faster, the 5.56 does not kick real hard anyways.
I'm an Hbar fan myself do to the heat/recoil absorbtion factors, but I pay for that with a heavier rifle. But the lighter profiles DO have their place.
briansmithwins
Member
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Pencil refers to the thinner profile of the original A1 barrels.
If you're going to carry the rifle for any length of time, the pencil barrel is hard to beat.
BSW
This 20" AR has a A1 (pencil) profile barrel.
If you're going to carry the rifle for any length of time, the pencil barrel is hard to beat.
BSW
This 20" AR has a A1 (pencil) profile barrel.
OP
OP
dukefan70
Member
Yeah I def. hear the less weight argument. However I'm pretty sure I'm going w/ a 16" barrel so I won't be lugging a 20" HBAR anywhere. Shoulda thought of this myself but the pencil barrel heating up quicker kinda seals the deal for me.
R.W.Dale
Member
IMO you're missing out on the sweetest part of the AR15 experience till you ditch the goofy useless dead weight hBAR in favor of a pencil or other lightweight profile.
I used to think a chrome lined bbl couldn't be accurate and doubly so for a thin one but the rifle pictured below had me completely reassess this stance.
I used to think a chrome lined bbl couldn't be accurate and doubly so for a thin one but the rifle pictured below had me completely reassess this stance.
Oh, the light weight is very nice no doubt, and first and second shot accuracy is probably going to be the same as an Hbar... until both units get to shot's 15-30... then that is where you really start seeing the accuracy seperation from my experiance.
I guess it all depends on weather or not eh weight bothers you personally, I really honestly do not notice much of a diffrence...
I still wanna do my Bushmaster A1 in the exact same config as the one in your pic though. I love the simplicity of the old school A1.
I guess it all depends on weather or not eh weight bothers you personally, I really honestly do not notice much of a diffrence...
I still wanna do my Bushmaster A1 in the exact same config as the one in your pic though. I love the simplicity of the old school A1.
R.W.Dale
Member
I consider shots 15 to 30 to be suppressive fire at which point knife edge accuracy isn't too critical. Besides I'm not an operator nor do I play one on TV so I'm not really to concerned with sustaining accurate volume fire.
Another plus for me is without the excess weight downward pulling on the rifle's muzzle I'm a better offhand and iron sight shot in general with the A1 profile
I'm not an "Operator" either, but I do shoot ALOT of ammo (300-800 rounds) when I go out to the range with my real "Operator" buddies, and I normally shoot at more then 400 yards while I am there.
And trust me, the BBL's heat up, operator or no.
Did you build that A1?
And trust me, the BBL's heat up, operator or no.
Did you build that A1?
ThomasT
Member
Krocus you have the type of AR that I want. If I could find one of those right now I would happily peel off the C-Notes to get it.
I like the "Pencil" barrel. I don't want a 9 pound AR rifle. I do a lot more carrying than I do shooting. And I want the velocity boost of the 20" barrel. I have been looking at a BM police carbine at Academy. It is light weight. I just wish it had a 20" barrel. It would be a sale.
I like the "Pencil" barrel. I don't want a 9 pound AR rifle. I do a lot more carrying than I do shooting. And I want the velocity boost of the 20" barrel. I have been looking at a BM police carbine at Academy. It is light weight. I just wish it had a 20" barrel. It would be a sale.
ThomasT
Member
GPWA I am going to the GS in Ft Worth this weekend to buy a stripped lower so I can do just that. I have been looking at Del-Ton rifle kits that have everything but the lower. I didn't see the triangle handguard on their selector boxes and will call to see whats available. I want a rifle that looks like the one krocus posted with a 1/9 twist barrel. I don't even care if its chrome lined or not. Hopefully I can stay in the 7.5 pound range. Less is better.
Can't wait to see the final result! I have a BM 11.5/5.5" A1 Commando (my first AR) that I think I want to do the EXACT same thing to. Figure all I need with be a new 20" Pencil BBL, Gas tube, and A1 stock set and I'll be in business.
OH, and some 20 rnd mags.
I thnk the only way to get this package, is by rolling your own. I cannot wait to see your results on this build bro!
Edit...
http://www.gundealeronline.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DPRFA1L20
Well, I stand corrected the DPMS whore in me found a 20" A1 already built... but I think you can do it cheaper buy rolling your own.
OH, and some 20 rnd mags.
I thnk the only way to get this package, is by rolling your own. I cannot wait to see your results on this build bro!
Edit...
http://www.gundealeronline.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DPRFA1L20
Well, I stand corrected the DPMS whore in me found a 20" A1 already built... but I think you can do it cheaper buy rolling your own.
ThomasT
Member
GPWA I had forgot about those. You can order from DPMS direct for $789 and for $32 more you can upgrade to a chrome lined barrel. It shows 7.5 pounds which is perfect. Then all you have to do is endure the wrath of the shooters who don't like DPMS. Or anybody else as far as I can see.
I wonder how far right on the Holy, Sacred chart these land?
I wonder how far right on the Holy, Sacred chart these land?
Zerodefect
member
The Hbar will stay on target a little better for follow up shots, but it's harder to move it to another target. No free lunch. The pencil can move quickly from target to target more accurately. With some practice I think that keeping the AR on one single target is easier than moveing to each target. So I lean towards lighter pencil and M4 type barrels for 5.56 Ar's
Everyone has a sweet spot for weight. Mine is 6.5lbs with optic, no mag.
Everyone has a sweet spot for weight. Mine is 6.5lbs with optic, no mag.
ThomasT
Member
Well I am answering my own question. The DPMS falls all the way to the right on the chart. Oh Dear, I better pass on that one. LOL.
Maybe the S&W rifles will be better priced at the GS this weekend. They are well liked by the chart.
Maybe the S&W rifles will be better priced at the GS this weekend. They are well liked by the chart.
Yeah the S&W's are also great rifles, with great prices right now due to what I have heard is overproduction. But they will not have one in that A1 20" Light Pro bbl Configuration.
[sarcasm]Also, I agree DPMS is so teh suxxerz
, so maybe that means some "sucker" out there will sell me theirs for a "DPMS sucks" price?
Please... they really do suck... [/sarcasm]
Man, I'd buy DPMS even if they were more expensive. Hard to put a price on that kind of accuracy.
[sarcasm]Also, I agree DPMS is so teh suxxerz
, so maybe that means some "sucker" out there will sell me theirs for a "DPMS sucks" price?Please... they really do suck... [/sarcasm]
Man, I'd buy DPMS even if they were more expensive. Hard to put a price on that kind of accuracy.
Joe Demko
Member
If you have, and know how to use, a sling the pencil barrels can shift POI when you are "slung up."
A good many years back, I had a Colt SP1 and the government was kind enough to lend me an M-16A1. One thing that stands out in memory is that the skinny barrels would get screeching hot after relatively few shots. OTOH, they cooled off pretty quickly too.
A good many years back, I had a Colt SP1 and the government was kind enough to lend me an M-16A1. One thing that stands out in memory is that the skinny barrels would get screeching hot after relatively few shots. OTOH, they cooled off pretty quickly too.
ThomasT
Member
GPWA my last post was a tonge in cheek thingy. I have come to the conclusion that about 2-3" is the best I can do with open sights at a hundred yards. For what I want most rifles to do that is just fine. The gun may be able to do better but I can't. Just one of the hazards of getting old.
I don't believe a lot of what I read on the internet either. i have read 10/22s are jam-o-matics. I have two and have never had a single malfunction unless I was trying to get them to feed on shorts or CBs or something like that. The groups I get at 50 yards with them scoped is in the 1.5" range. not great but good enough for hunting.
I will look for a DPMS when at the GS saturday. I don't expect I will find the light weight gun but if I do I will have cash in hand. I may go watch Platoon or Southern Comfort and get an AR buzz going. It works everytime.
I don't believe a lot of what I read on the internet either. i have read 10/22s are jam-o-matics. I have two and have never had a single malfunction unless I was trying to get them to feed on shorts or CBs or something like that. The groups I get at 50 yards with them scoped is in the 1.5" range. not great but good enough for hunting.
I will look for a DPMS when at the GS saturday. I don't expect I will find the light weight gun but if I do I will have cash in hand. I may go watch Platoon or Southern Comfort and get an AR buzz going. It works everytime.
I figured as soon as the "list" (which by the way, if you understand it, is an amazing collection of facts for buyers who are seeking certain options on their rifles) made its appearance you were just mukin' around so the adult thing that I tried to do is "out sacrasm" you LOL.
Nice to meet people with common intrests. ;-)
Nice to meet people with common intrests. ;-)
Love the Colt SP1. A 20'' Gov't barrel feels a little too clunky compared to the pencil, but both have their pros and cons. I also really like that Pencil barrel with A2 handguards. I don't care for the retro handguards on the SP1 but I'll keep em for the retro look, its not a rifle I shoot regularly.
ThomasT
Member
GPWA. I know what the list is. It is a collection of features written by the enlightened for the enlightened who want their rifles to have every possible upgrade feature offered. Nothing wrong with that. Its a free country. For now anyway.
I wonder if the truck they drive has every possible bell, whistle, upgrade and addon availible on the market added to it? Do you think they realize a plain jane ford f100 or base model chevy will still haul dirt and pull a trailer? And do it on a budget?
I wonder if the truck they drive has every possible bell, whistle, upgrade and addon availible on the market added to it? Do you think they realize a plain jane ford f100 or base model chevy will still haul dirt and pull a trailer? And do it on a budget?
By "enlightened" do you mean "Mall Ninja" LOL, I got a Mall ninja buddy who lives and dies by the list, I got lucky enough that his last name is "Schindler", which of course led to calling it "Schindler's List" in our circle.
But just so you know, you need a 3500 Duramax and allison tranny to even pick your kids up from school these days ;-).
Zerodefect
member
"the enlightened" drive real trucks. Like a base model 4x4 in white. No power windows, locks, or carpet. Sheeesh, rookies. 
"the list" deosn't have bells and whistles. It has the bare esentials for a combat AR.
back on topic: yup, you don't want to combine "the sling trick" with lightweight barrels.
"the list" deosn't have bells and whistles. It has the bare esentials for a combat AR.
back on topic: yup, you don't want to combine "the sling trick" with lightweight barrels.
ThomasT
Member
I am not real familiar with "Mall Ninjas". I think that they are folks who believe that the more gizmos you have screwed on their rifles (and themselves) the more invincable they are. I hope they never have to test their theories in the real world.
I am not sure such a starkley equipped and poorly outfitted truck would even be allowed to drive past my sons school.
I don't think changing the name to "Schindles List" will ever fly. It gives way too much credit and importance to one person, setting him way above all the other "experts" and fueling burning jealousys that would lead to even more "whats The Best AR" threads.
But just to keep this post on topic I would like to say a pencil barreled AR would sure be neat to have.
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