What is a good grouping with open sights ?

[Matt Dillion]

My 20 year old Tasco scope died the other day, so I decided to sight in the open sights on my Marlin 3030. What group size should I expect at 100 yards? I know this varies depending on the shooter, but what do you guys think is an achievable shot group ?

 

[Varminterror]

I know you know this, but it seems you need to hear it told again. The rifle can shoot just as well with or without a scope. The scope only changes how well you can see the target and pick your POA. Given an appropriate target which accommodates 100yrd shooting with iron sights, you should should be able to challenge your scoped groups. Of course - if you're using the same "normal sized" targets you used with the optic, then you'll struggle to maintain a consistent POA from one shot to the next - so you have to change your target. And of course, if you're wanting to hunt, none of that matters - we don't shoot groups on deer, so being able to place that POA where it needs to be when it matters is the key. If the rifle shot 1.5" with the optic, then it'll still do the same now, you just need to use a target which helps you find center, get the sights aligned, and then practice delivering shots on target with a repeatable POA.

 

[GAF]

With my 30 30 Marlin I can keep all bullets in a 5 inch circle at 50 yards. I could probably do better, but I have a hard time seeing the notch in the rear sight. In my younger years I could keep them all in a 6 inch circle at 100.

What are your groupings like at 100 yards?

 

[Matt Dillion]

With my 30 30 Marlin I can keep all bullets in a 5 inch circle at 50 yards. I could probably do better, but I have a hard time seeing the notch in the rear sight. In my younger years I could keep them all in a 6 inch circle at 100.

What are your groupings like at 100 yards?

I shot 3 rounds in about a 6 inch circle at 100 yards. My gun is shooting high but the rear sight is on the second to last notch. There are six more elevation adjustments. I'm curious how far the open sights will reach out. The paper plate in the picture was shot at 100 yards.

 

[boom boom]

Off hand, prone, or on the bench with a rest?
Open sights are designed more for speed and hunting with good enough accuracy--it keeps your field of view open for repeated shots if necessary. Aperture sights are generally more accurate but slower and depending on the size of the aperture--will block more or less your field of view.

You know what your rifle's potential is but generally Marlin lever actions can do at least 2-3 MOA for comparison with ammunition that it likes.

.

 

[someguy2800]

I don't think I could do any better than 6" at 100 yards with a 336 and the original buck horn sight shooting from a bench. I can do about 4" from the bench with my 1895 with williams peep sight. Offhand it would be a whole different ball game. I can't shoot buckhorn sight worth a darn offhand. I've found I do much better with peep sights.

 

[.308 Norma]

I don't think I could do any better than 6" at 100 yards with a 336 and the original buck horn sight shooting from a bench. I can do about 4" from the bench with my 1895 with williams peep sight. Offhand it would be a whole different ball game. I can't shoot buckhorn sight worth a darn offhand. I've found I do much better with peep sights.

I could have almost "copied and pasted" someguy2800's response as it's so close to my own. I have a Model 94, 30-30 with the original sights. With it, on a good day, I can shoot 6" 3-shot groups at 100 yards from a solid rest.
On the other hand, my wife has a nice little Model 94, 32 Special with a Williams peep sight. With it, from a solid rest, either one of us can shoot 4", 3-shot groups at 100 yards all day. I DO like peep sights.

 

[LoonWulf]

^ add me to those guys, with buckhorns im lucky to be on a paper plate, the big ones, for more than a few rounds.
Im just not very (any) good with them.
With the peep on my r92, or the buis on my .458, expecting to hit a pop can or clay at 100yds was pretty reasonable.

 

[22250Rem]

Me & buckhorns never got along well, either. But it's comforting to know that I'm not the only one. Aperture, or "peep" sights are the way to go if you're using iron sights.

 

[Clark]

Until I was 40, I could hit the nail holding the target at 100 feet, with an old Rem 510 with peep sight front and rear.

Now I have so much eye nerve damage from glaucoma, my right eye makes a $2,000 scope look like a $20 scope.

 

[PabloJ]

My 20 year old Tasco scope died the other day, so I decided to sight in the open sights on my Marlin 3030. What group size should I expect at 100 yards? I know this varies depending on the shooter, but what do you guys think is an achievable shot group ?

From what I remember five shots covered by medium sized palm would be considered good shooting. Lever along with double rifle (vertical, horizontal), pump, semi-auto are treasured for quick followup shot(s) at running game for activities like driven game shooting (as practiced in EU). While bolt-action is usually more accurate unless straight pull it isn't that much better than a single shot. My pre-64 .300Magnum with long bolt throw is basically single shot rifle with magazine holding cartridges.

 

[Panzerschwein]

3 shots dothn't a groupith makith.

Try 5 for best results.

 

[LoonWulf]

I shot 3 rounds in about a 6 inch circle at 100 yards. My gun is shooting high but the rear sight is on the second to last notch. There are six more elevation adjustments. I'm curious how far the open sights will reach out. The paper plate in the picture was shot at 100 yards.

As far as you can shoot accurately with them. For me thats about 50yds.

Honestly for me the very worst experience ive had with open sights was shooting moving animals. Im very comfortable making shots on moving targets with peep sights, or scope/dots, but having to try line up a moving critter, front and rear sights just never was something i could do quickly....i also suck with a shotgun if i try aim it using a double bead.

 

[hdwhit]

What group size should I expect at 100 yards?

Whatever group size you are capable of obtaining.

I don't own a 30-30, but I do shoot off-hand using iron sights. My accuracy standard is whether I can get at least 9 out of 10 rounds in the circular divot on the side of a gallon milk jug at 100 yards. The divot varies with the manufacturer of the jug, but is generally between around 3 inches in diameter.

You could try that and see if that's something you can achieve. Once you can, you can then start moving to smaller targets meaning your skill are improving.

I fill the milk jug with about a quart or a little more of water and I don't put the cap back on. The water acts as ballast to keep the jug from moving around too much but since the water is below the bottom of the divot, it shouldn't hit the water and blow up the jug.

 

[someguy2800]

My personal standard for deer hunting is whatever distance I can put a bullet onto a 4" circle first shot every time. That distance is different for every gun I have. Some of them are limited by accuracy and some by my ability to estimate distance and trajectory. Once I have a gun grouping well during load development I'm not all that concerned about group size after that as some guns I've had group very well, but point of impact changes on a day to day basis with temp, humidity ect...

My deer hunting practice is to take each of my guns out and shoot one shot with each. I repeat that test about 5 or 10 times throughout the fall with each gun and I sometimes leave the gun and ammo out in the garage so it will be cold when tested. I'm taking 5 guns with me this deer season so the testing has been a bit exhausting!

 

[Dr T]

Anything smaller than minute-of-deer at 125 yards is just gravy...

 

[Matt Dillion]

Off hand, prone, or on the bench with a rest?
Open sights are designed more for speed and hunting with good enough accuracy--it keeps your field of view open for repeated shots if necessary. Aperture sights are generally more accurate but slower and depending on the size of the aperture--will block more or less your field of view.

You know what your rifle's potential is but generally Marlin lever actions can do at least 2-3 MOA for comparison with ammunition that it likes.

.

I was shooting off a rest. I think I need to get some open sight targets. My homemade targets were hard to see.

 

[someguy2800]

Anything smaller than minute-of-deer at 125 yards is just gravy...

Is that minute of gut shot or minute of lung shot?

 

[Pete D.]

Three targets shot at 100 yds prone iron sights. I am not a particularly great shot; if I were all three would be clean. I do not do any better with a scope.
The hard part is getting back to vertical from prone. I will be 71 at the end of November.

 

[Shimitup]

Two targets shot at 100 yds prone iron sights.
The hard part is getting back to vertical from prone. I will be 71 at the end of November.

I was about to say this thread is for young people....... never mind. What are those blurry lumps on my barrel?

 

[LoonWulf]

Is that minute of gut shot or minute of lung shot?

OPs running a lever, so if hes quick enough both! Might even get em in the butt for good measure! But wait, thats only a three round group.....can we really call it MOD without a couple more?

 

[Pete D.]

Good groups with irons?
I was happy with this one, shot from the bench with a Lyman Great Plains flintlock and the factor buckhornj sights. It was a three shot contest. I came in second.

 

[Nature Boy]

Pete, you are a heck of a shot sir!

(P.S. send me the number and address of your optometrist)

 

[Matt Dillion]

I've thought about getting a ghost ring sight or peep sight. I've heard some people complain about the peep sights in the woods trying to find the deer. Lol. The ghost ring maybe be the best of both worlds. My shots were with the original buckhorn sights. I'm out of practice with my iron sights.

 

[Jack B.]

At one range I shoot at, we like to put clay pigeons on the 100yd. berm. Not sure about group size but I manage to bust all the clays with a lever action 44 Magnum with just buckhorn sights. If I put 10 clays out there usually take me about 12- 15 rounds to break them all. Good thing they are bright orange , only way I can really see them.