What is a step up from a falcon?

[Roadwild17]

What would you guys consider to be an upgrade from a falcon menace FFP mil/mil keeping the ffp and mil/mil. I would also like to keep a power of 3-12 or 4-16 or somewhere around there.

I think Nightforce makes a mil/mil scope, but they are out of my price range. SS has a 3-9 with no side focus that is $600 I think, its a little to high for no side focus and only 3-9.

So what else is out there?

 

[otrman]

To keep those features, FFP and mil/mil, the next step up is a BIG one. The Nightforce is probably the best bang for the buck. The only other scopes I've seen with those features besides NF is S&B or US Optics and you can add about a grand to the NF to even get close to either one of those two. IMO the SS would be a lateral move.

 

[gvnwst]

The next step is a leupold MK4(?) FFP, or a IOR 3-18 FFP, both are around $1500, IIRC.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

How was the Falcon for you?

 

[Maverick223]

Gavin, I have heard tales of horror about the FFP IORs. No personal experience, but they are not highly thought of and had (don't know if they still do) a 10% failure rate. Not acceptable for a scope of that class. Their SFP scopes are great, but I don't trust the FFP ones.

Leupold is probably your best option, but isn't notably cheap. You can get a Premier Reticles for about $2250.00 (PM if you want details, I don't think the retailer wants price advertised), but I doubt you want to spend that much. There really is no decent step up from a Falcon unless you want to go with a Leupy, NF or a PR (better buy IMO but both are good). I haven't seen reviews of the new SS and it doesn't fit your needs anyway. There really aren't too many FFP optics manufacturers to choose from. Off the top of my head...Falcon, SS, Leupold, IOR, NF, PR, S&B, and Hensoldt...I know I am missing some...but how many SFP manufacturers can you think of (bet it's more )?

 

[gvnwst]

Gavin, I have heard tales of horror about the FFP IORs. No personal experience, but they are not highly thought of and had (don't know if they still do) a 10% failure rate. Not acceptable for a scope of that class. Their SFP scopes are great, but I don't trust the FFP ones.

Hmm...thats odd. All the people i know who have them loved them, said they were better than the leupolds of similar class...

 

[Maverick223]

Hmm...thats odd. All the people i know who have them loved them, said they were better than the leupolds of similar class...

Like I say, no personal experience here, but the following link is a thread that tells a bit more...Scott Berish is the owner of Liberty Optics so I'll take his word for it, seems the newest generation doesn't have the same problems as the previous generations (at least so far).
http://longrangehunting.com/forums/f18/ior-scopes-incoming-shipment-3-18x42-ffp-policy-32919/

 

[Roadwild17]

I havent heard a lot about the falcon on THR, but guys over at the hide think they are the top sub $500 scope. Anyone over here have any experience?

 

[Maverick223]

Anyone over here have any experience?

Can't say that I own one, but they have decent glass and pretty good adjustments. All the people that I have spoken to have liked theirs.

Roadwild, why do you want to replace the Falcon? Problem or just looking for better glass/features?

 

[lipadj46]

There was a bad batch of one particular IOR model I'm not sure which one. They are sweet optics though. IOR scopes have better glass the Leupold mk4's but a Leupold will serve you well.

I would check out the new Super Sniper variable with milliradian turrets or the new weaver FFP both should have good japanese fully multicoated optics. Neither will be a huge step up but you will be getting Japanese made scopes as opposed to a chinese made scope. Otherwise you are looking at spending well over $1000 bucks.

Also forgot to, you can get a Conquest and send them out to put good quality target turrets on.

 

[Maverick223]

Also forgot to, you can get a Conquest and send them out to put good quality target turrets on.

Do you know something I don't? I hope you do...but have doubts...FFP Conquest? Also, the Conquest comes with target turrets (in select models/some reticles), so no need to send it back for an upgrade (don't think they offer mil adjustments either way except on Hensoldt).

Roadwild17, I would lean towards the IOR assuming all of the problems are fixed and your budget allows (about $1500.00USD).

 

[Roadwild17]

I dont have any glass. I was going to get a falcon but I worked a bit of overtime on the 4th (Triple time is wonderful) so I was going to put those funds towards an upgrade, but I didn't work enough OT it looks like.



If you would give up the option of a FFP or mill adjustments, which would it be?

 

[lipadj46]

Do you know something I don't? I hope you do...but have doubts...FFP Conquest? Also, the Conquest comes with target turrets (in select models/some reticles), so no need to send it back for an upgrade (don't think they offer mil adjustments either way except on Hensoldt).

Just get a Nightforce, Schmidt and Bender or US Optics then.

No the the Conquests are not FFP I was just thinking about how to upgrade without getting you in the $1500+ price range, but if you've got the money spend it. The conquest target turrets are pretty poor. The aftermarket metal target turrets are much much better.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

So let's be realistic now....If you have a laser or optical rangefinder, then you don't really need either mil dot or FFP, do you? So then that leaves you a lot of great value options in between the two extremes mentioned. And since my Bushnell Yardage Pro at around $175 works fantastically, and certainly much quicker and better than an optical / manual mildot calculation, wouldn't it make more sense just to get a good range finder and a mid-range scope with the other features you want, to get more satisfactory performance and still save money?

Or the Leatherwood scopes are good for a multi-function scope, too.

But maybe I'm missing something - always a possibility.

But shoot, if you can afford a Nightforce, then go for it - those are great scopes, and personally, I'd like to get one.

 

[gvnwst]

But maybe I'm missing something - always a possibility.

Sorry, but yes. The main thing for mildots is not ranging (IMO), as, like you said, laser rangefinders are cheap and accurate. Rather, it is for accurate holdover and windage adjustments on the fly.

 

[pdd614]

Doc, where i shoot the wind is constantly changing. So I use hold off's for windage. Having either a fixed power or ffp reticle makes shooting at distance so much easier, and having the adjustment knobs match the reticle makes it easier still.

Shooting long distance in gusty conditions is tough enough. I don't want to add to that by having to constantly crank on the windage knob. Think about it.

 

[Maverick223]

If you are willing to give up the FFP, then I think the best buy in the marketplace is a Zeiss Conquest (4.5-14x44mm {or 50mm} AO Rapid-Z 1000 about $800 @ Liberty Optics). It has all the features you want other than FFP and has much better glass than Falcon (which is not bad, on par with a Bushnell 3200 IMO). Another scope to take a good look at is the IOR, some models can be purchased for little more than a Conquest.

 

[Roadwild17]

Well $800 is stretching the budget a little to much right now. It has become sorta obvious that I cant upgrade from the falcon and still keep the mil/mil and FFP scene those run in the $2k range.


Possible looking at the Bushnell 6500 2.5-16X42 and the weaver 3-15X50 tactical also. They run around $650.

 

[lipadj46]

The new Super Sniper variable is mil/mil and is FFP and has the Japanese optics that will be on par with the Bushnell 6500 for $600. Here is a review from a guy who knows optics very very well:

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=17763

It is 3-9x though as they are going after the DMR contracts. The FFP Weavers look nice too but I have not seen a review yet

 

[Maverick223]

I personally don't care for the Bushnell 6500 at its price point, not to say that it is bad, just not a great value IMO. Something that I should have asked before...What are you going to be using the scope on/for? Do you really need the extra magnification? The SS will give you a little better glass (nothing spectacular but better than Falcon) and fit in your budget.

 

[Roadwild17]

A DMR style rifle (my verson of a samr).


On the new weavers, Ive noticed the FFP has been dropped from the description, anyone have any info on that?

 

[Maverick223]

Ive noticed the FFP has been dropped from the description, anyone have any info on that?

Sorry no news here, haven't seen one. Anyways, BUMP maybe lip will know more.

 

[Roadwild17]

I looked around a few places, some plases list it as FFp and some dont. Weaver's site list it as FFP.


Last night we went to academy and I looked through a millett TRS-1 I think, Leupy Mk AR, and a Ziess conquest. I noticed the millett wa a little "fogy" on anything above 10X. The mk AR and Ziess both looked great to me (no experience with optics). Where would a falcon rank in there?

 

[Maverick223]

Where would a falcon rank in there?

I would have to put it close to a Millet, not bad (especially for the features), but not great either. I believe that The Zeiss is about as good (as far as glass quality) as you can find, of course it is a very subjective aspect.

 

[lipadj46]

Sorry no news here, haven't seen one. Anyways, BUMP maybe lip will know more.

The new Weaver Tactical scopes are FFP that is about all I know, well they are probably made in Japan by LOW or the other big optics manufacturer whose name escapes me at the moment. Keep any eye on opticstalk and the 2 sniper forums for up to date info and reviews.

Here is weaver's own info:

http://www.weaveroptics.com/optics/riflescopes/tactical.aspx