What is range of 12 ga. No. 8 target loads against an intruder?

[strambo]

At a minimum, use #4 buck...the birdshot needs to enter as one mass to be reliably effective. I'd say 10 ft or less as well.

How aggressive are you? I guess you could shoot him from whatever range the fight starts at, charge him to finish him off at point blank range (with a close shot then a buttstroke).

I'm not kidding with the above BTW, if I only had birdshot and was protecting myself or family, that is what I would do. Thankfully, I can just buy more effective loads with the click of a mouse as easy as typing this.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

One technique an instructor at a defensive shotgun class I went to told us about, but I have never seen or tried; is to score the outside of the birdshot shells with a knife so that all the shot is in one package and hopefully it hits a BG like frangible slug. The instructor, was a cop, who had responded to a call where this technique had been used to permanently incapacitate an intruder forcing his way through the door of a mobile home.

I don't see myself using this though, as I'd much rather use OO buck or slugs in the first instance.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Every time some shotgun noob asks if it's OK to shoot 3" shells in a 2 3/4" chamber, a half dozen people jump up and down and yell "Don't do it, it isn't safe."

Every time someone talks about 'ringing' a birdshot shell and blowing the whole front end of that shotgun shell through the same forcing cone that might be overstressed by the mouth of a too-long hull opening out into it as a shot charge passes through, the same group sagely strokes their chins and says, 'yeah, that could work, grampaw used to talk about it.'

I perceive a certain amount of inconsistency here. If it isn't safe to shoot too-long shells in too-short shotgun chambers (and old fogey me believes it isn't) then it doesn't seem safe to shoot 'cut' shells for the very same reason. Sure, you can get away with it. People talk about doing it and don't ever talk about anything going wrong.

Then the stories of 'my shotgun just blew up, I didn't do anything wrong, it just blew up' come around, and you really wonder what happened. I kinda like having my face and fingers all in place and working the way they're supposed to. Playing around with things that might go BOOM and scatter shrapnel eight or ten inches in front of my nose and between my hands just doesn't seem worth it to me, even in a pinch. If I have to I can improvise something else that will be more effective than birdshot at longer range, yet still safer to shoot than a 'cut' shell.

Of course, YMMV...

lpl

 

[Mightee1]

My current HD gear consists of a pump 12 gauge with #7 loads. I do not feel under-gunned or inadequately prepared for an intruder. That being said, I live in an apartment with rather thin walls where over-penetration is a major concern. In the close quarters (maximum shot would be about 8 yards), the shot would still be effective. Taking a blast from that range would ruin someones day bigtime and likely end the threat.

As with any weapon / firearm, know its limits and what it can and cannot do. A shotgun with #8 birdshot in it is a HD tool in the same way that a .45 1911 or a .223 AR is. They each have their advantages and disadvantages and your strategy should be adjusted accordingly.

 

[Renigeid]

Try 000 buck shot @ 7 yds. From my Win 12 ga Defender.

 

[bowman1962]

HD loads

Nice group with the Buckshot, question is who is on the other side of that load if you miss? I've said it before #4 lead shot in a full choke will remove or disable limbs inside most HD ranges and you don't have to worry about the young'uns in the next rooms.

 

[Renigeid]

No young'uns here anymore. All grown up and gone. Besides live in the country on 35 acres, so no worry about outside penetration. Best bet is to STOP any aggression as quickly as possible. I believe 000 buck to be the best bet. Too old to take any chances of a bad guy hurting either my wife or myself. That is my "bed" gun along with a Colt 45 loaded with Double Tapp 230 gr gold dots. I am almost 75 years old and so is she. The old adage "don't mess with old folks, or they will kill you" pretty well rings true in our household. We intend to take no chances.

Then there's my dog and THEN my wife with her trusty S&W 22 mag to hold up her end of the load. She also knows which end is the potent one and is very good with it. She did use a S&W mod 60 38 spl until the arthritis moved into her hands. So, had to go with less recoil.

Too many bad guys running around now that times have gotten rough and the avg time to get a sheriffs car way out here in the sticks is about 20 minutes. That is definitely unacceptable!!

So! We just have to look out for ourselves. Yup, alarms on all windows, doors and a "modified New York Block" on the entry/exit doors. Figure the "blocks" will give us plenty of time to react if ever have unexpected door kicking visitors show up.

Stupid hurts! J

My wife, dog and I are all light sleepers too so I figure that is an advantage also.

 

[IllHunter]

Reingeid,

One question, where is the hole the shotcup made? At 7 yds it should be in the center of the group. It punched the drywall in the "box of truth" demos. Perhaps that paper is tough? Echo the warning not to play rough with the elders!

 

[Kindrox]

I think the OP needs to pattern his shotgun and decide what is the maximum range of a HD shot.

When I patterned #8 in my shotgun, even at 10 feet the spread was 10 inches or so. It was much larger than I would have guessed. Personally I never intended to use #8, I was practicing with it, but the result was enlighting none the less.

I do believe less than 00 buckshot can be used, but I think one key with smaller shot is tight groupings that allow for deep tissue penetration.

 

[Ryder]

Low brass #8?

They work on small birds but not so great on mammals. One rabbit shot in the head at 10 feet started hopping off. Did the same on the second shot. Quit hopping after the 3rd shot so I finish the job without using my gun. Ears looked like swiss cheese. Haven't used that load hunting since.

 

[LiveLife]

Even though the first shot may not be lethal, I bet it would certainly get the BG's attention and decrease his desire to pursue further (For one, it's ear drum bursting loud inside the house when you are on the receiving end and it's gotta hurt like H*** wherever the pellets hit) - especially if he hears another chambering sound of "Craaaack" (I could almost hear the BG saying, "Oh holy CRAP!!!")

 

[strambo]

Nice group with the Buckshot, question is who is on the other side of that load if you miss? I've said it before #4 lead shot in a full choke will remove or disable limbs inside most HD ranges and you don't have to worry about the young'uns in the next rooms.

First, 000 buck is just .33 cal lead balls, not exactly super penetrators. Any pistol HP .38 SPL and above will penetrate way more (through walls etc.)

2nd...I know my fields of fire and if they are in their rooms, they will be fine (if not, I'm doing target ID anyway and looking at what's behind). I have thought and planned this all out, it's way easier than designing CQB live fire exercises for teams.

3rd, Effective loads reduce the chance of needing multiple shots to do the job, thus reducing the chances of a miss.

I feel the un-compromised ability of a projectile to reliably penetrate into the vital organs from oblique angles is paramount (say, 12" in ballistic gel). If I'm using deadly force, I need to know the load is doing all it can to stop the threat, the rest is up to me, him, and biology.

There's no free lunch, if it is reasonably "safe" to dwellers on the other side of an apartment wall...it probably is a big compromise on your safety trying to stop the BG who is trying to kill you. I'll chance the repercussions of a miss and over-pen (even to my own family) before I mess with my ability to reliably stop the known threat who is trying to kill us all. Odds of accidental through-the-wall hit...slim, odds of pissed off armed intruder killing me if I don't stop him (then doing whatever he wants to my family) high.

 

[Sav .250]

Target loads will do the job but why play around! If you are defending something then get serious about it. I`ll bet the perp isn`t using target loads....

 

[bushmaster1313]

How aggressive are you? I guess you could shoot him from whatever range the fight starts at, charge him to finish him off at point blank range (with a close shot then a buttstroke).

In pistol class they taught that when you you have a pistol and you are charging a bad guy and you run out of ammo and he is still standing--bash his head with the pistol.

 

[CajunBass]

Well, I can tell you this first hand. A "dove" load of No 8 shot will blow a 3/4" hole through a deer's head at two to say five feet. The hole looks like a slug hit them. I've used them to finish off many a buckshot deer that was gasping their last at my feet.

Beyond that? I don't know.

 

[RatDrall]

Post removed, no reason to keep this argument going. The facts are there for those who care to look, the rest will believe what they believe.

 

[renegade1alpha]

My favorite loads are 00 buck, #4 buck, and #4 bird shot. For most HD cases #4 bird shot will cover about all your needs. Lately however I have become a big fan of BB lead shot out of my 18" Remington 870. Its bigger shot size travels a little bit farther and hits a little harder than #4 bird shot. And it actually patterns pretty good out of my 18" shotgun.