What is the classic American rifle other than the Model 70
- Thread starter bushmaster1313
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KrankyKraut
Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2005
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If you look at the issue from an international standpoint, i.e. what's the quintessential American gun in the eyes of the rest of the world, it's the Winchester lever gun, the Tommy Gun and the M16. "The Rifle Man" and other Westerns, WWII movies and Vietnam are driving this.
Gunnerboy
Member
Has everyone forgotton the Trapdoor sprinfield? or what about the Eddystone 1917 we wouldnt have made it far in ww1 without that rifle, or even the 1918 BAR anther great rifle could even qualify as the first SAW.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Got to be the Winchester 1894.
There were over 7 million made, which is more then any other rifle I can think of.
And they were in production longer then any other American rifle.
They stopped making them in 2006, 102 years after the first one was made.
Now they are making them again.
rc
There were over 7 million made, which is more then any other rifle I can think of.
And they were in production longer then any other American rifle.
They stopped making them in 2006, 102 years after the first one was made.
Now they are making them again.
rc
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I don't see that happening in the near future. Leverguns are more popular now than they ever were and there are more choices now than at any other time in history.
R.W.Dale
Member
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Marlin, Winchester, Uberti/Beretta, Rossi/Braztech, LSI(Chiappa), Henry, Mossberg, Browning, Chaparral, Big Horn, Turnbull, etc.
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R.W.Dale
Member
In other words nobody once you eliminate the ones clinging to the cas craze.
Like I said in a generation. When the guys who grew up on the lone ranger are gone replaced by the sesame street Gen.
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
You predicting the future now? Yeah, that's a credible argument. 
FYI, I am the Sesame St. generation and don't shoot CAS but I have more leverguns than any other rifle type. Nearly an even dozen, at last count.
FYI, I am the Sesame St. generation and don't shoot CAS but I have more leverguns than any other rifle type. Nearly an even dozen, at last count.
I guess it depends on what you're criteria are? If we are to go to the average american closet where you are most likely to find only one rifle (unlike most individuals on this site who probably have a gun cabinet with multiple long guns) i'm suspecting more often than not you are going to find a remington 700. probably in 30 06.
Flatbush Harry
Member
The M1903 is a close lift of the Mauser...close enough that we had to pay royalties until WWI.
FH
FH
While the Model 70 is definitely an American classic, I don't see how it can be "the" American classic. It is just an updated copy of a German design. Something designed and built in America, and found in the gun rack of just about every American would be more fitting, so the Winchester 1894 gets my vote.
Ha HA Ha HA that is a good one dang near had me ROFL
Maybe in your delusional mind, however back here on earth in the real world that is highly doubtful. In the last few years several places couldn't keep em' in stock they were selling so fast. Dick's Sporting goods and Gander Mountain being otwo such places.black_powder_Rob
Member
either the Marlin or Winchester in 30-30. And I am another one in the Sesame street gen. that has nothing to do with CAS and yet all of my rifles are levers. They just feel better to me.
R.W.Dale
Member
Ha HA Ha HA that is a good one dang near had me ROFL
Really coming from a fanboy with a username of 336a?
I honestly cannot think of the last time I've heard of a new shooter or young hunter being introduced using a new levetgun.
Heck the fact that the two production facuilities that made Marlin and Winchester lever actions are now "space for rent" speaks volumes to how many folks DON'T see things through the same fanboi shaded glasses you do.
New shooters don't start out on grandpappys 30-30 any more (although I did and still own it) nowadays they start out on an m4gery with the stock fully collapsed. Deny it all you want but its already happened.
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Lever actions would have been gone long ago were it not for the Hollywood westerns starting in the 1920's through the 1970's. They were never really popular in the old west and only became popular after being featured in the movies. Most were not even invented until well after the west was won. Our grandfathers were just as influenced by movies as our kids today.
This coming from a man who owns 15-16 leverguns, more than any type. I like them just fine, but there is not a single advantage they offer over a bolt, pump, or semi-auto action. Only disadvantages.
I agree, in another few years they will be about as common as flintlocks. There will always be a group who likes and uses them, as it should be. Flintlocks are still in use by a dedicated few just because they want to use them. Not because they are any better.
I also bow hunt with a 50 year old recurve, because I want to, not because I think it is better.
This coming from a man who owns 15-16 leverguns, more than any type. I like them just fine, but there is not a single advantage they offer over a bolt, pump, or semi-auto action. Only disadvantages.
I agree, in another few years they will be about as common as flintlocks. There will always be a group who likes and uses them, as it should be. Flintlocks are still in use by a dedicated few just because they want to use them. Not because they are any better.
I also bow hunt with a 50 year old recurve, because I want to, not because I think it is better.
Ole Humpback
Member
I come from the sesame street generation and have a pair of lever rifles at my disposal: a 22WRM Henry & a Model 81 BLR in 257 Roberts. Most of the guys who I know that are avid shooters have lever rifles made by anyone of the above. My dad is stuck on lever carbines, and the people I meet at the range more often than not have lever guns.
They are cheap, compact, found in a myriad of chamberings, carry more rounds than a bolt gun, fit great on the saddle/ATV scabbard, and are more than potent enough for 95% of hunting needs. Unless there comes aching for an oddball caliber or need for a powerful 375 H&H derivative, I don't see lever guns going anywhere in my lifetime. I don't have plans for any new lever rifles currently, but they are on the buy list if I come across a nice one in a good chambering. Plus, they make great first guns for kids.
As to the nature of the thread, there are two groups of American guns: sporting & military.
Sporting (from old to new):
Pennsylvania/Kentucky Rifle
Hawken Rifle
1863 Sharps
1874 Sharps
1885 Browning High Wall
1886 Winchester
1894 Winchester
Model 70 Winchester
Military (from old to new):
1763 Leger/1766 Charleville Smoothbore Musket
1795 Springfield Smoothbore Musket
1816 Harper's Ferry Smoothbore Musket
1841 Mississippi Percussion Rifled Musket
1861 Springfield Percussion Rifled Musket
1862 Sharps Breechloading Rifle/Carbine
1863 Springfield Rifled Musket
1864 Henry Rimfire Lever-action Repeating Rifle
1873 Springfield Trapdoor Breechloading Rifle
1894 Krag Bolt-action Repeating Rifle
1903 Springfield A3
1917 Browning Automatic Rifle A1
1919 Thompson SMG
1919 Browning HMG
1933 Browning M2 HMG
1936 M1 Garand
1959 M14
1963 M16
1984 M249 SAW
1994 M4 Carbine
2009 SCAR 16/17
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Yes and I'm sure that such limited anecdotal evidence is quite conclusive. You might want to look again, lots of those guns are NOT going to cowboy action shooters but sportsman.
Likewise, I've never heard of a new shooter starting out on an AR either. So our respective arguments are negated.
Quicker than a bolt.
More prolific than pumps.
More reliable and traditional than semi-autos. Not everybody wants an AR.
Likewise, I've never heard of a new shooter starting out on an AR either. So our respective arguments are negated.
Nonsense.
Quicker than a bolt.
More prolific than pumps.
More reliable and traditional than semi-autos. Not everybody wants an AR.
R.W.Dale
Member
I call nonsense on your nonsense. I've not owned a pistol Cal leveraction that hasn't jammed to the point of needing tools to fix. (Rossi win and a Marlin)
A lever firing full powered loads (not Cass primer only barrel stickers) is not any faster that a comparable bolt if the shooter has taken time to learn the proper way to manipulate a bolt gun.
They're slow to reload, one of the only firearms that requires all cartridges to be chambered on unloading and of course scattered all about in the process (a real joy in the dark at camp)
Their safety mechanisms are a joke.
Lastly they cost almost twice as much as a bolt action that can kill deer at 400yds if the shooter is up to it.
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R.W.Dale
Member
Oh no
I can't take my Retro to Pennsylvania
Oh what ever shall I do.
BTW they like pumps in pa
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R.W.Dale
Member
OK it took 115 years to sell 7 million 94's
Do you realize that by the best figures I can come up with over A MILLION ar variants were sold in 2009 alone. Think for a moment about the levet of market saturation that requires.
I'm actually not that big an ar fan. I own the same number of ar's as I do Winchester 94
I'm just floored by the assertion that the lever (more specificly the 30/30) is still Americas no 1 or 2
To believe that you have to pretty much ignore the past 7 or 8 years even happened
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I've not owned one that did, two dozen, read it again.
It is a physical impossibility for a boltgun to be operated as quickly as a lever. Period. No amount of wishful thinking will ever change that. Ever.
They're easier and quicker to top off the magazine and I have NEVER found it to be an issue unloading them. I usually don't until the hunt is over. It's easy to clear the chamber. Only a big deal if it works for your lame argument.
Yet they've worked fine for 150yrs.
Yeah, if you count plastic disposable boltguns.
The bottom line is that they are a wonderfully versatile, useful, utilitarian, practical, interesting and sometimes beautiful rifle.
Unless you hate them.
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