What is the point of an FFL ?

[lilguy]

No they don't, do you?

I live in the US and have had to carry a firearms license for 52 years. Its called a
FOID card. In Illinois you must have one or you will be charged with unlawful use of a weapon if caught.

 

[AlexanderA]

It's been a requirement since the GCA of 1968.

The dealer licensing system actually dates back to the Federal Firearms Act of 1938.

 

[Mick Boon]

There are some states in the US that require something like that, usually called a "permit to purchase" or similar. In most states though, no license is required. The gun laws in the US vary wildly from state to state. The difference between my state and New York, for example, is so vast it's as if it was a totally different country. That's something that I think a lot of folks outside the US have a tough time wrapping their mind around. The differences in gun laws between the various US states are significantly greater, in many cases, than the differences in gun laws between the various countries in Europe, for example.

The Canadian license is known as a PAL... Possession and Acquisition License. Once you have that you are good.

 

[Sistema1927]

The Canadian license is known as a PAL... Possession and Acquisition License. Once you have that you are good.

Can your PAL be revoked? At the whim of the government? For whatever reason the next gaggle of politicians dreams up? Following a horrific event?

Maybe you do need a Second Amendment.

I fully understand your attitude of "they passed laws, but nobody is enforcing them", and the type of "Irish Democracy" under which you are living, but the fact remains, they have passed those laws. And they would disarm you, given half a chance. The pendulum won't need to swing too far before your neighbors are turning you in. All it takes is one high profile act of terror.

After 9/11, and with the push to enact the "Patriot Act", we were told that its provisions wouldn't be used against ordinary Americans, just against "terrorists". Now we have parents who speak up at School Board meetings being labeled "Domestic Terrorists". So much for the promises that were made.

 

[hk940]

Yes I do. If I want to by a firearm or firearms I just show my license and take them home, it's that simple.


PS, I usually forget my license when going shopping, but if I want to buy firearms or ammo my wife often just shows her license instead. If I want to buy online I EMT the cash and give the seller the number on my license and he sticks it in the post.

It seems like you are very limited in what you can own!

 

[Mick Boon]

Can your PAL be revoked? At the whim of the government? For whatever reason the next gaggle of politicians dreams up? Following a horrific event?

Maybe you do need a Second Amendment.

I fully understand your attitude of "they passed laws, but nobody is enforcing them", and the type of "Irish Democracy" under which you are living, but the fact remains, they have passed those laws. And they would disarm you, given half a chance. The pendulum won't need to swing too far before your neighbors are turning you in. All it takes is one high profile act of terror.

After 9/11, and with the push to enact the "Patriot Act", we were told that its provisions wouldn't be used against ordinary Americans, just against "terrorists". Now we have parents who speak up at School Board meetings being labeled "Domestic Terrorists". So much for the promises that were made.

It seems like you are very limited in what you can own!

I can and have owned every firearm I have ever wanted. What do you think we can't have here ?

 

[Styx]

All they can do is pass toothless laws. They can never disarm the people, we don't need a 2nd amendment.

Well in America the gun laws at least have teeth. No, they aren't going to go door to door to confiscate firearms, but they will put you in prison for 10 or so years and ban you from firearm and ammo ownership for life if caught. We all could ignore gun laws and keep illegal firearms hidden under the floor in the basement, but should we ever actually want to carry, compete, take training classes, or go to a public range or area to actually use and enjoy our illegal fire, we risk throwing our lives away. The same thing applies to if we ever wanted to use an illegal firearm for self-defense. We'd be alive, but would also be in prison for a decade.

That's where our Second Amendment comes into play. It keeps our government (for the most part) form easily enacting Canada's draconian gun laws in America. We don't have to worry about ignoring gun bans, and risking our lives and freedom because the 2nd Amendment stops the Justin Trudeaus of the United States from banning them in the first place. If not for the 2nd Amendment and even if private citizens where to ignore gun laws, the government could cut supply by stopping imports and shutting down American firearm and ammo manufacturers. Our 2nd Amendment prevents that also.

 

[Mick Boon]

Can your PAL be revoked? At the whim of the government? For whatever reason the next gaggle of politicians dreams up? Following a horrific event?

Maybe you do need a Second Amendment.

I fully understand your attitude of "they passed laws, but nobody is enforcing them", and the type of "Irish Democracy" under which you are living, but the fact remains, they have passed those laws. And they would disarm you, given half a chance. The pendulum won't need to swing too far before your neighbors are turning you in. All it takes is one high profile act of terror.

After 9/11, and with the push to enact the "Patriot Act", we were told that its provisions wouldn't be used against ordinary Americans, just against "terrorists". Now we have parents who speak up at School Board meetings being labeled "Domestic Terrorists". So much for the promises that were made.

Yes our PAL's can be revoked following the next horrific event, but then what ?

What do we need a Second Amendment for exactly ?

The can pass laws till the cows come home for all I care, I will not surrender my guns to anyone. I will own them till the day I die.

 

[Mick Boon]

Well in America the gun laws at least have teeth. No, they aren't going to go door to door to confiscate firearms, but they will put you in prison for 10 or so years and ban you from firearm and ammo ownership for life if caught. We all could ignore gun laws and keep illegal firearms hidden under the floor in the basement, but should we ever actually want to carry, compete, take training classes, or go to a public range or area to actually use and enjoy our illegal fire, we risk throwing our lives away. The same thing applies to if we ever wanted to use an illegal firearm for self-defense. We'd be alive, but would also be in prison for a decade.

That's where our Second Amendment comes into play. It keeps our government (for the most part) form easily enacting Canada's draconian gun laws in America. We don't have to worry about ignoring gun bans, and risking our lives and freedom because the 2nd Amendment stops the Justin Trudeaus of the United States from banning them in the first place. If not for the 2nd Amendment and even if private citizens where to ignore gun laws, the government could cut supply by stopping imports and shutting down American firearm and ammo manufacturers. Our 2nd Amendment prevents that also.

I have nothing to fear, I live in Saskatchewan with many firearms owners. No federal enforcer can bother me.

 

[hk940]

Did your Fearless leader just ban all pistols?

 

[Mick Boon]

Did your Fearless leader just ban all pistols?

Not that I know of.

 

[dogtown tom]

Yes our PAL's can be revoked following the next horrific event, but then what ?

Well, then you aren't in lawful possession of a firearm are you?

What do we need a Second Amendment for exactly ?

If you have to ask that, you haven't even read our Second Amendment have you?

The can pass laws till the cows come home for all I care, I will not surrender my guns to anyone. I will own them till the day I die.

Novel idea. Neva been dun befo. From my cold dead hands.

Fact is, you will surrender or they'll take them by force.

 

[Styx]

Why do I get the feeling the the OP didn't ask his question in good faith because he was curious, but rather he asked so he could boast about how America's 2nd Amendment and FFL system was inferior and pointless compared to the much more restrictive CA system? He seemed genuinely curious at first, but now has revealed the facade.

I reckon his opinion is that us have the 2A and following gun laws is stupid. That we all should just abolish the 2A, and ignore any gun laws. Shoot it out with the law enforcement, the Federal government, and the military if we're caught and they are coming for us individually. I've seen that tough talk on countless occasions here in the U.S., and it ALWAYS ended badly when the SHTF for the person running their mouths. They either complied, were begging a judge for leniency before being sentenced, or ended up in a bodybag.

 

[Mick Boon]

Well, then you aren't in lawful possession of a firearm are you?

So what ?

If you have to ask that, you haven't even read our Second Amendment have you?

I have read it, it was written with good intent, but in practicality means little

Novel idea. Neva been dun befo. From my cold dead hands.

Do you know where I live ?

Fact is, you will surrender or they'll take them by force.

Who is "they" exactly ?

 

[Mick Boon]

Well, then you aren't in lawful possession of a firearm are you?




If you have to ask that, you haven't even read our Second Amendment have you?



Novel idea. Neva been dun befo. From my cold dead hands.

Fact is, you will surrender or they'll take them by force.

" Well, then you aren't in lawful possession of a firearm are you?"

So what ?

"If you have to ask that, you haven't even read our Second Amendment have you?"

I have read it. I have no doubt it was written with the best of intentions, but in reality if falls short in usefulness.

"Novel idea. Neva been dun befo. From my cold dead hands."

I don't think you understand what it's like where I live, the feds can not take my guns here.

"Fact is, you will surrender or they'll take them by force."

The feds tried that already in Prince Edward Island. They failed The Liberals are donald ducked

 

[Styx]

As far as the value of our 2nd Amendment is concerned, America has the least restrictive gun laws and the most guns than anywhere else on the the planet despite American gun rights being under constant attack from well funded and organized foreign and local entities.

Canada, for one example, has 34.7 guns per 100 people. The United States has 120.5 per 100 people. The number of firearms in circulation in America is steadily rising. The number of gun Canada are declining.

As the saying goes, "the proof is in the pudding."

 

[Mick Boon]

Why do I get the feeling the the OP didn't ask his question in good faith because he was curious, but rather he asked so he could boast about how America's 2nd Amendment and FFL system was inferior and pointless compared to the much more restrictive CA system? He seemed genuinely curious at first, but now has revealed the facade.

I reckon his opinion is that us have the 2A and following gun laws is stupid. That we all should just abolish the 2A, and ignore any gun laws. Shoot it out with the law enforcement, the Federal government, and the military if we're caught and they are coming for us individually. I've seen that tough talk on countless occasions here in the U.S., and it ALWAYS ended badly when the SHTF for the person running their mouths. They either complied, were begging a judge for leniency before being sentenced, or ended up in a bodybag.

Conversations with Americans about guns always ends up with " we have the 2nd amendment " and have an absolute right to own firearms . Unfortunately that only applies if you do as you are told and obey all the rules.

 

[Styx]

Conversations with Americans about guns always ends up with " we have the 2nd amendment " and have an absolute right to own firearms . Unfortunately that only applies if you do as you are told and obey all the rules.

Yes, rules that fall within the scope of the 2nd Amendment. Rules and laws that fall out of the scope of the 2nd Amendment, e.g., like the draconian and very restrictive Canadian gun laws, cab and will be challenged and defeated.

 

[Mick Boon]

As far as the value of our 2nd Amendment is concerned, America has the least restrictive gun laws and the most guns than anywhere else on the the planet despite American gun rights being under constant attack from well funded and organized foreign and local entities.

Canada, for one example, has 34.7 guns per 100 people. The United States has 120.5 per 100 people. The number of firearms in circulation in America is steadily rising. The number of gun Canada are declining.

As the saying goes, "the proof is in the pudding."

Proof of what ?

 

[Styx]

Proof of what ?

The numbers of firearms in America, the numbers of firearm owners, the numbers of people who can carry outside of the home, and the fact that we have the most favorable gun laws in America vs anywhere else in the world including Canada is proof that our 2nd Amendment works although it's not perfect.

 

[Mick Boon]

double post

 

[Mick Boon]

How come the ID laws have not been challenged then ? If you don't have the piece of paper in certain states you lose your guns apparently.

 

[Styx]

How come the ID laws have not been challenged then ? If you don't have the piece of paper you lose your guns apparently.

No, we do not lose guns if we don't have ID. We need ID to buy a firearm from a FFL. In some states, they need a permit to buy a handgun that must be issued unless the applicant is forbidden because they're a felony, certified mentally ill, etc), but those states are the exception and not the rule. Those laws are being challenged. In any event, no one "loses their guns" for any reason other than they're legally deemed to to be fit to own them because they're felons or other serious reasons.

In many states, unlike in Canada, we do not need a permit or any government permission to buy and sell firearms via private sale or to have a gun inside or outside our homes.

 

[Mick Boon]

The numbers of firearms in America, the numbers of firearm owners, the numbers of people who can carry outside of the home, and the fact that we have the most favorable gun laws in America vs anywhere else in the world including Canada is proof that our 2nd Amendment works although it's not perfect.

The numbers of firearms and laws in America vary greatly from state to state, it's no different in Canada. As it happens I live in a very gun friendly province ( Canadian state ) and am protected from federal seizure programs by laws introduced by the Saskatchewan government. They made those laws because they know what would happen should the feds attempt to confiscate firearms in Saskatchewan.

 

[Mick Boon]

No, we do not lose guns if we don't have ID. We need ID to buy a firearm from a FFL. In some states, they need a permit to buy a handgun that must be issued unless the applicant is forbidden because they're a felony, certified mentally ill, etc), but those states are the exception and not the rule. Those laws are being challenged.

In many states, unlike in Canada, we do not need a permit or any government permission to buy and sell firearms via private sale or to have a gun inside or outside our homes.

I quote lilguy.

I live in the US and have had to carry a firearms license for 52 years. Its called a
FOID card. In Illinois you must have one or you will be charged with unlawful use of a weapon if caught.