What the beef with plastic?

[Walt Sherrill]

Walt: I do not think a Damascus barrel shotgun that has been through a fire will come out unscathed... nope. I do think it will be far easier to 'clean it up' and present it as a non-shooting heirloom than a melted Glock would be.

I don't care if the technology of plastics exceeds that of titanium. I'm not going to own one. I shot a Glock at the range. I was surprised by it's pleasant trigger pull. I'm still not going to buy one. I won't try to stop anyone else from owning one, but even a pro-polymer 10,000 page scientific report on them will sway me to purchase one. A plastic frame is not for me.

Wood will char at about 400 degrees, and polymer starts to melt at about the same temperature. The temperatures of a house fire are typically MUCH, much higher... .

While parts of a Damacus-barreled shot gun may survived the same fire that melts a Glock frame, I doubt that shotgun will be something you'll clean up: it'll be a charred stock or ashes and a barrel badly warped and possibly spread into all of the layers and strands that were wrapped and pounded to make those once-beautiful barrels.

If you reverently take the "cleaned up" fire survivor and show it or gift it to a grandson, he'll probably figure you've gone over the edge in your dotage but, if well brought up, will fake it and say nice things. That It'll make YOU feel better, at least.

You are free to like or dislike what you want. Refusing to buy a polymer-framed gun because it might melt while another "heritage" gun won't be damaged in one of those relatively rare house fires seems like a pretty lame reason to avoid purchasing a gun, and based on false assumptions. If you expect every gun you buy to be an heirloom you should then be giving serious thought to buying a fireproof safe. Get a big one, as they're good for protecting SOME other valuables, too, like jewelry.

 

[ku4hx]

Walt: I do not think a Damascus barrel shotgun that has been through a fire will come out unscathed... nope. I do think it will be far easier to 'clean it up' and present it as a non-shooting heirloom than a melted Glock would be.

Neither will the Mona Lisa but that fact has no bearing on its historic value, beauty or desirability. Many things can be damaged by fire and other catastrophes, but the modular nature of many poly guns means they might be returned to service more quickly and at a lower cost.

 

[boricua9mm]

IIRC, there was a guy over at SilencerTalk that had one of the original Glock 17s with an obscenely high round count. The polymer had become a little brittle around the edges of the magwell. I don't remember the exact details, but I think Glock was interested in getting that frame and replacing it for the original owner. They were probably most interested in the story of long-term durability held within that very frame's polymer. It would have probably wound up on display at SHOT Show as a testament to the material's durability.

I used to avoid polymer framed guns. Eventually I purchased an H&K USP, and that began shifting my concerns away from the material, and more towards the design and build quality. Polymer is lightweight. It allows for smaller, more comfortable grips than steel frames with grip panels screwed onto the sides. Polymer is very resistant to the elements. Polymer is also very resistant to a wide range of temperatures.

Nowadays, I would have no hesitation about owning polymer gun, but I still won't buy firearms from certain manufacturers because, frankly, I believe they produce garbage. Most manufacturers have the recoil forces of a pistol down to a very exact science. That is to say, the polymer frame isn't taking a beating every time the gun is fired, but rather, that responsibility is passed on to integrated steel frame rails that are molded into the frame itself.

The argument of plastic in cars is an amusing one, but the reality is, the majority of people these days do not actually keep a car for more than a couple years. Hell, most car manufacturers are not designing and building cars/trucks that you would even *WANT* to keep for a long period of time. The trend in modern society is to be the kid with the newest, coolest wheels on the block, even if they can't really afford it and are leasing it in an effort to keep up with the Jones'. Drive it for a while, make a few payments, then toss someone the keys and saddle up in something new and different. What is most interesting to me, is that some of those same folks will be here complaining about the price of a gun!

I tend to drive my vehicles until they have one foot in the grave, then move on. At that point, I have been driving said cars for many years without a car payment, and without any regard for looking cool or rich. I'd much rather spend that money on fun guns that I can at least pass down through the family when it's time for me to take a dirt nap. I have a few polymer guns that I wouldn't mind giving the same treatment.

 

[BLU]

Okay... let's say that fantastic plastic survives the fire and metal guns do not.... I'm still not buying one. They're all yours... enjoy.

jcwit: What in heavens name would I want a non-shooting heirloom for?

I don't know why you might... I wanted one, (the Damascus twist shotgun I mentioned before), because it was my Grandfather's.

 

[tarosean]

There's no doubt about the weight advantage of plastic, but there are metal-framed pistols that are every bit as reliable as the polymer options, if not more so.

It has been my experience that frame material is trivial now-a-days. Just because it's polymer, alloy, steel, cast, forged, etc. etc. doesn't mean its unreliable or reliable.

The gun with the most malfunctions in my safe is a plastic fantastic that is lauded by the internet. The gun with the highest round count and least malfunctions is alloy framed that is loathed by the internet.

It is what it is...

 

[Elkins45]

What in heavens name would I want a non-shooting heirloom for?

To leave sitting out of the safe to distract burglars? As decoration for the local Cracker Barrel?

 

[BLU]

Elkins45: Love your tag line! Mind if I use that outside of forums?

 

[Tinker]

A page or two back someone said that polymer guns are ugly compared to the "firearms of yesteryear". I disagree. A Glock (what I own) reminds me of a Pit Bull. Some would call those dogs ugly. I don't. I think a Pit is beautiful. Especially after living with one. Built strong, a great heart, amazing eyes and a protector. But to each his own.

This was also said:

"Everyone should have a Glock and 1911 in their collection for at least a year. I don't understand how anyone could try one without the other."

Would love to have a 1911. Personally, if I could afford a 1911, it would not be a fancy, high end rig. My dream 1911 would be a beater that had actually been carried by a soldier in service to our country. Now that is about as close to possessing a soul as a gun could. It would only exit my possession through a will.

 

[ku4hx]

What in heavens name would I want a non-shooting heirloom for?

Oh I don't know. Maybe because they have been authenticated as American Revolution pieces? Maybe because your wife's Grand Father gave them to you and she has an attachment to them? Maybe because they represent classic a "gun art" that no longer exists?

Many things in the real world have value far beyond practical uses: wives, children, real antiques, pot shards from the Ming Dynasty ... all sorts of things. Guns are no different. They have value in many cases by virtue of what they did or who owned them. My Garand for instance.

I'd hate to think I live in such a sterile, operational oriented world where only functioning items by definition have value.

 

[Ky Larry]

Coke or Pepsi? Ford or Chevy? 9mm or .38Spl? Fried or grilled? Yada yada yada. Hating plastic pistols makes about as much sense as the people who hated front cocking serations on 1911s. Shoot what you like and be thankful you have a choice. Just my $0.02 worth.

 

[fanchisimo]

Oh I don't know. Maybe because they have been authenticated as American Revolution pieces? Maybe because your wife's Grand Father gave them to you and she has an attachment to them? Maybe because they represent classic a "gun art" that no longer exists?

Many things in the real world have value far beyond practical uses: wives, children, real antiques, pot shards from the Ming Dynasty ... all sorts of things. Guns are no different. They have value in many cases by virtue of what they did or who owned them. My Garand for instance.

I'd hate to think I live in such a sterile, operational oriented world where only functioning items by definition have value.

I really doubt anybody here doesn't believe that a historical item or something passed through family generations has value. I think the point attempting to be made is a pistol that doesn't have any significance other than it is all metal, custom engraved, and has a price tag of thousands of dollars isn't that great. If it is an artistic item, then wouldn't shooting it be damaging a work of art? At that point it isn't a firearm, just well sculpted pieces of metal.

 

[Chocolate Bayou]

Another reason I like my metal guns over my plastic is that it seems easier to hold on target. My plastic seem to kick up a little each shot and i have to adjust back on target

 

[Teachu2]

Shoot what you like and be thankful you have a choice.

Amen to that!

 

[JR24]

Originally Posted by Ky Larry View Post
Shoot what you like and be thankful you have a choice.
Amen to that!

It is indeed a great time to be a handgun enthusiast, plenty of great options for everyone.

 

[Mauserguy]

There are different polymers. Some have UV protectants in them which will prolong their life considerably, but they will not last forever. Steel will rust and polymer will become brittle. Nothing is perfect.

I once worked for a company that made ATM machines. We started seeing reports of cracked facades. It turns out our supplier ran low on UV protectant and reduced the formula. Facades that were supposed to last the life of the machine were failing in a few months. Plastics deteriorate, it's a matter of how fast, and steel rust, it's a matter of how well it's coated.

In guns, stainless steel may be a good option, but it has issues as well, remember gallling?

They way I see it is that one should choose the material that is appropriate to the job. My favorite range guns are steel and wood. My favorite hunting rifle is steel with a plastic stock (it won't absorb moisture like wood) but my cary pieces are steel and plastic, because they are lighter.

Choose the material appropriate for the job.
Mauserguy

 

[BLU]

ku4hx... I am NOT the original poster of this phrase:

What in heavens name would I want a non-shooting heirloom for?

That would be jcwit... not me. I merely put it in my post as a reference when I answered the question.

 

[Pete D.]

time

but I seriously doubt there will be many of them purchased today that will still be shooting 100+years from now.

Not something that any of us are likely to check on.
I suspect, though, that there will be plenty of poly guns available as antiques when the next century turns.
If my 1911 and my Glock 36 both ended up in a landfill and were found after 100 years....which one would be in better shape? I am sure that neither wouid be shootable.
Pete

 

[anothernewb]

Amen to that!

seconded

 

[anothernewb]

It is indeed a great time to be a handgun enthusiast, plenty of great options for everyone.

You're dead on, but it sure puts the hurt on the wallet these days. handgun prices have inflated faster than baloons in a clown college.

 

[anothernewb]

If my 1911 and my Glock 36 both ended up in a landfill and were found after 100 years....which one would be in better shape? I am sure that neither wouid be shootable.
Pete

interesting time capsule project

 

[ritepath]

I don't have a problem with either....I own both and love both.


That being said, I do see plastic (high dollar medical equipment plastic) breakdown after years of use. So I gotta wonder using the wrong cleaners if there's a chance it could breakdown also? Of course steel wears out...so there you have it. If you want it to last forever don't use it, and keep it in a dry, dark climate controlled place (like a gun safe) and bring it out only to polish it with a microfiber rag and approved cleaning substances.

My next to planned purchases are a CZ p-07 (poly) and a CZ 75 steel. I believe in both plastic and alloys/steel equally.

 

[GLOOB]

Lols, at this thread. A hundred years from now, your kids might enjoy your gun collection. If you are a savvy collector, I suppose your guns can be a fantastic investment tool. Maybe it will make your heirs rich, one day. Or they might sell it to buy crack. Who knows?

But OTOH, just cuz it still works, doesn't automatically mean it's better. Over the last hundred years, firearms have improved, just a wee bit. And in another hundred years, they will improve, more.

On the reloading forums, there's lots o love for the RCBS Rock Chucker. "You can hand it down to your kids, and they can hand it down to their kids, and in 100 years, it will still be working."

Well, if you assume your offspring will want to reload ammo to begin with, and you want to curse the lucky one of them with an outdated machine that spits primers every which way for multiple generations, then the Rock Chucker is certainly your ticket.

 

[tarosean]

But OTOH, just cuz it still works, doesn't automatically mean it's better. Over the last hundred years, firearms have improved, just a wee bit. And in another hundred years, they will improve, more.

LOL You realize that every single "modern pistol" uses a browning tilting method dating back over 100 yrs. Just because the frame is plastic doesnt mean its actually "state of the art", even polymer framed is dating back close to 50yrs.

Until we move away from the cartridge as we know it, it will remain the same.......

 

[TestPilot]

LOL You realize that every single "modern pistol" uses a browning tilting method dating back over 100 yrs.

I willl take SIG/Glock type tilt barrel mechanism over 1911 link tilt mechanism, any day.

 

[Valkman]

I love the old 1911 and the newer XD guns, have 3 of them stashed around here. My 1911's stay in the safe along with the revolvers. Love 'em all!