What the devil is this thing?

[ApacheCoTodd]

Curiouser and curiouser...

I'm back. No Karmic retribution - just doin' weekend things in weekend ways.

Whether practical suggestions or humor based in frustration or for humor's sake - I'm enjoying the thread.

I'm still trying to put as comprehensive a photo package as possible together for the links provided by RC.

Some more pics and observations for y'all:

It appears that the item is a basic hex tube with the ends fitted for threading.
The tube at the other end of the lockwork is hollow and open to the hardware of the lock so not for storage. Neither is it open to the percussion chamber so the lockwork end is independent in function. This leads me back to belief that that end is a powder tester missing the degree wheel. The index key slot I alluded to is shown at the muzzle in one of these photos.

The two middle chambers are deliberately blocked at their centers. Rigidity? Volume control?

The little diamondy plugs seem to simply be caps to their respective chambers.

For what it's worth - this is a nine sided tube - yup, 9.

The vent holes at the end are open to the chamber and the chamber on the end piece is completely open to the half-way block in the next piece. Interestingly, there is another vent in the chamber of the next piece as well. A single vent about an inch+ down the tube.

The numerals and plating of the lockwork are a soft gold metal pressed into engravings. Copper, brass or gold but too soft for bronze. I'll have my with test that it isn't gold when she gets the time.

 

[anothernewb]

Ever get the feeling sometimes that people have intentionally built things just to make next person to come along go "huh?"

 

[Bobson]

That's exactly what I was thinking while reading Todd's latest post.

How possible, however improbable, is it that this thing is just a couple of years old, built by someone who was looking for a way to kill time? It could still be valuable either way.

 

[JRH6856]

That's exactly what I was thinking while reading Todd's latest post.

How possible, however improbable, is it that this thing is just a couple of years old, built by someone who was looking for a way to kill time? It could still be valuable either way.

So...shop scrap used to practice/test various procedures (draw filing, engraving, inlaying, boring, threading, drilling and tapping, lock mounting, etc.)?

 

[Bobson]

I guess. Or maybe some sort of obscure prop for a movie or play?

I'm definitely interested in finding out what it really is. It's strange that even those with vast knowledge in historical arms are mystified by it.

 

[Odd Job]

Gents, I sent a link to this thread to the knowledgeable folks at the Royal Armouries in Leeds, here in the UK.
They have provided a very good lead in my opinion, which is that the item may be a walking stick gun. See this link kindly provided by Jonathan Ferguson:

http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/37960/walking-stick-gun

 

[rcmodel]

Well, I'd have to say you have Nailed it Odd Job!

Well done sir!
My hat is off to you!

rc

 

[OilyPablo]

Why the marking on this one?

 

[rcmodel]

The museum link from Odd Job said:

the sides gold-damascened with a calendar.

Maybe that?

rc

 

[OilyPablo]

Calender for long walks! Heavy for protection.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Love the ODDJOB research. Thanks. If that's the case, I wish I had the rest of it.

As far as calendar RC, intriguing. I'll look better at it when I return home.

 

[JonathanE]

I've been a bit obsessed checking this thread for answers, so thanks for the relief, but I'm still unclear...

I sure wouldn't want to squeeze that "trigger" underneath the frizzen as shown in the first photos. Are we saying it was used as a bangstick?

The photo of the specimen from the royal collection shows the "trigger" lever folded back to a more reasonable location relative to the lock. I don't see, in the OP's photographs, however, how it could release the hammer in the folded back position.

I like the calendar idea, however! I've been on a few "walks" where I could have used one of them!

Great thread; thank you very much.

 

[rcmodel]

I have worn my tired old brain out thinking about it too.

If it is a walking stick?
Perhaps the numbers are the Indian equivalent of 'Ranger pace counting beads' to keep track of your travel distance each day?


And what are you going to encounter on a dirt path in India that little pop gun would be effective against?
Tigers, rogue elephant, enraged water buffalo, other?

How about a King Cobra coiled up ready to strike beside the path?
Maybe the thing is a 'Bang Stick' for killing Cobras on the trail?

rc

 

[jerkface11]

Could it be a relic from when the British surveyed India? Maybe the numbers were to aid in measuring distance.

 

[WestKentucky]

The original snake tamer...or the original taurus judge....

 

[hso]

Are you certain the piece with the holes goes with the other 3? It appears to be different because the numbering circles it where the other pieces only are numbered on a side. The other pieces end with the number that starts on the next piece, except for the bit with the holes.

If the 3 similar sections are assembled what is their overall length?

 

[rcmodel]

I thought about that to.
It doesn't look like it belongs with the other parts.

But the thing is, if it is truly flint-lock era India?
It was almost certainly hand made and hand fitted to screw together first.
Then draw filed to perfectly shape & align the nine flats.

The chance of four segments & one of them mismatched to the others screwing together, and all the 9 flats being the same size.
And lining up perfectly are less then a million to one.

Unless they were made as a set to begin with.

It's just another totally baffling part of the mystery.

PS: There is still something out of place with the modern round-head plated screws holding the trigger assembly on.
They are either more recent replacements?
Or, something more troubling regarding it's true age?

rc

 

[JRH6856]

PS: There is still something out of place with the modern round-head plated screws holding the trigger assembly on.
They are either more recent replacements?
Or, something more troubling regarding it's true age?

Well, the trigger is hinged so it folds. And the description from OddJob describes a folding bayonet. And there is that keyway on the barrel. Maybe the "trigger" is really whats left of the folding bayonet that originally fit into the keyway but broke and was reshaped repurposed as a trigger because the original trigger was lost or broken.

 

[Dr.Rob]

What a solution!

 

[Odd Job]

It gets better folks, I received another email from Jonathan Ferguson today:

Hi Brandon,

We've nailed it. It is indeed a walking stick gun, and we have one exactly like it! The graduated scale is a *sundial*, of all things. Here is the description;

Flintlock walking stick gun 18th Century XXVIF.218

The device consists of five main pieces that screw together. The main sections will be identified by numbers 1-5, starting with number 1 at the top or the end with the knob.
Section number 1 has a gilded fluted knob, under which is a flat loose ring with a small spur. This was probably a swivel loop originally. The sections are octagonal with incised lines down each edge. Section 1 has a hole in every face with scaled lines across the faces, these are marked with numerals in gold Nagri script.
Section 2 is immovable but an X-ray shows it has a sprung loaded nozzle like section 4. On the outer surface of 2 is a collar with gold marks that originally slid up and down the cane.
Section 3 has seven sides scaled and marked in gold and is pierced by a single through hole.
Section 4 has five sides scaled and marked whilst inside is a spiral wire spring that pushes a brass nozzle out of the end as the joint is unscrewed.
Section 5 contains the flintlock gun of conventional boxlock construction, the whole of which is decorated with gold koftgari. The barrel has a sleeve covering it, attached to the underside of which is a square section tube containing a folded spring. A bar extends from the rear edge of the sleeve and butts against the stud trigger.
Behind the trigger is screwed a bar with two lugs that had a pivot pin passing through them. This may have had a pivoted safety catch that locked the trigger. The structure suggests that the gun could be fired by forcing the muzzle of the gun against an object, the sleeve sliding backwards and operating the trigger to fire the gun.
Secreted in section 3 is a ramrod that unscrews to form a short pricker that also fits through the holes in the cane.

I suspect our Oriental department were well aware of this, but we in the firearms team weren't, so thank you for bringing it to our attention.

Jonathan Ferguson
Curator of Firearms
National Firearms Centre
Royal Armouries
Armouries Drive
Leeds, LS10 1LT

 

[JRH6856]

I'd say theirs is not exactly like this one, but close enough.

 

[jerkface11]

But why does a walking stick have numbers on it???????

 

[JRH6856]

But why does a walking stick have numbers on it???????

According to the description in #95, it's a sundial. And maybe this oneis alos a calandar.

 

[SleazyRider]

I believe this was the most intriguing thread I have ever followed, so thanks ApacheCoTodd!

Now for Pietta to make a reproduction … .

 

[OilyPablo]

Where did OP's wifely unit find this? And is the British Museum confirming it's not a reproduction?