What the hell is going on?!! (dangerous dogs)
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bigun15
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I know a woman who had a pit bull. It lived with her for many years, and never showed any hostility towards any of the (4) family members. Was said to be a great dog. Nobody knows why or how but one day the dog just lost it and bit the woman's arm. Got blood on the floor, freaked out the whole family. They had to have it put down.
Went from wonderful family dog to crazy in one day.
Went from wonderful family dog to crazy in one day.
Joejojoba111
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I know ten thousand million cases where a poodle just lost it and bit their owner's arm. Ten thousand trillion cases of that. But no-one cares, it's a yorkshire, or it's a corgy, or it's a chihuahua, if they flip-out and bite someone it's TOTALLY different, because they aren't scary dogs.
And cats, housecats never 'lose it' and injure their owners, nuh-uh, no-way, never.
Sorry if that sounds confrontational, but it's supposed to be confronting the argument, because the arguments are unsound.
If they get their 'assault dogs' ban you think it will stop there? 'They' won't be happy, you know that. Offensive weapons, defensive weapons, 'they' don't care.
"No law-abiding citizen needs a door that well constructed."
"No law-abiding citizen has need for a bullet-proof car."
"No law-abiding citizen has need for protective clothing."
Honest to god, it's unthinkable that anyone could publicly propose banning breeds of dogs, justlike the other examples are unthinkable.
Oh what do I care, I suppose the 'love it or leave it' idea applies here, so go ahead and ruin the country, have fun with it, knock yourselves out, have a ball watching it fall.
And cats, housecats never 'lose it' and injure their owners, nuh-uh, no-way, never.
Sorry if that sounds confrontational, but it's supposed to be confronting the argument, because the arguments are unsound.
If they get their 'assault dogs' ban you think it will stop there? 'They' won't be happy, you know that. Offensive weapons, defensive weapons, 'they' don't care.
"No law-abiding citizen needs a door that well constructed."
"No law-abiding citizen has need for a bullet-proof car."
"No law-abiding citizen has need for protective clothing."
Honest to god, it's unthinkable that anyone could publicly propose banning breeds of dogs, justlike the other examples are unthinkable.
Oh what do I care, I suppose the 'love it or leave it' idea applies here, so go ahead and ruin the country, have fun with it, knock yourselves out, have a ball watching it fall.
The_Antibubba
Member
A friend of mine used to breed them, and they take some getting used to. I'd knock on the door, and the barking from the other side of the door could loosen a man's bowels 
. But once they saw that it was me (I visited a lot), the only death I feared was from being sat on and licked to the point of suffocation! Great dogs, but they need a VERY firm hand.
FWIW, the only dog bite I have is from a spitz. and while I will routinely ask dog owners if their "kid" is friendly, I won't get within seven feet of a pomeranian-their the most psychotic, unpredictable animals I've ever seen, I'm not kidding.
. But once they saw that it was me (I visited a lot), the only death I feared was from being sat on and licked to the point of suffocation! Great dogs, but they need a VERY firm hand. FWIW, the only dog bite I have is from a spitz. and while I will routinely ask dog owners if their "kid" is friendly, I won't get within seven feet of a pomeranian-their the most psychotic, unpredictable animals I've ever seen, I'm not kidding.
Ok, go ahead and laugh... I am more afraid of a poodle than a pit.
I know lots of folk who own dogs, and a few who breed and raise - like humans, personality and upbringing make the difference.
I heard all the flak about pits and asked an associate to show me one, so I knew what they looked like, and he introduced me to a litter of pit puppies and their parents, which were such adorable and sweet animals I nearly took one of the pups home with me. (apartment too small, bah.)
Since then I have been skeptical about the whole "dangerous dogs" thing cause it seems mostly just BS, save in the case of poodles - for whatever reason they seem generally highstrung and extremely willing to bite you..
*twitch*
Now, is that Rott/Pit/Chow puppy *potentially* dangerous ?
Sure, but then so's a human infant who might grow up to be a serial killer.
If I am not going to pre-judge the infant, damned if I will pre-judge the puppy either.
Simple enough argument?
-K
I know lots of folk who own dogs, and a few who breed and raise - like humans, personality and upbringing make the difference.
I heard all the flak about pits and asked an associate to show me one, so I knew what they looked like, and he introduced me to a litter of pit puppies and their parents, which were such adorable and sweet animals I nearly took one of the pups home with me. (apartment too small, bah.)
Since then I have been skeptical about the whole "dangerous dogs" thing cause it seems mostly just BS, save in the case of poodles - for whatever reason they seem generally highstrung and extremely willing to bite you..
*twitch*
Now, is that Rott/Pit/Chow puppy *potentially* dangerous ?
Sure, but then so's a human infant who might grow up to be a serial killer.
If I am not going to pre-judge the infant, damned if I will pre-judge the puppy either.
Simple enough argument?
-K
Hahaha! That's hilarious! Maybe show the rappers sitting quietly in a library, reading a book! Hahaha!
I used to work with an older man that grew up in a rural south GA town. We were talking about a recent pit bull attack one day and he said, "When I was a kid, these kind of dogs were just out loose in our town, on the streets. We either didn't pay attention to them or threw rocks at them and ran them off. We never knew they could kill you!" Hahaha...
It seems people use to have more freedom to deal with problems on their own. Now, the government is looked to, to take care of us for everything. And they love it. Unfortunately, when we take care of some things now, the government puts us in jail.
When my father was growing up, he killed FIVE pit bulls one day, that were causing trouble in their town. And with a .22 rifle. He was thanked by a store owner for taking care of the problem. (He hunted a lot and was very handy with a rifle.) Today, someone would be thrown in jail and it would be the lead story on the local news. SPCA and Peta would get involved... Local blathering politicians would be vomiting demands for legislation to stop this kind of response to animals... blah, blah, blah...
And I love dogs. But, not ones that attack. If my dog ever attacked someone, he would be buried in the back yard before the sun set that day (and he's just a small, non-aggressive breed). I wouldn't be making excuses for him. I would be extremely embarrassed and humiliated.
With dogs, their behavior is dependent upon both training and genetics. Training should be able to overcome bad genetics, but if not the animal should be destroyed. Of course no training or bad training and genetic tendency to be vicious creates most of the problems. Would advocate that the first approach should be to hold the owners legally responsible rather than ban certain breeds.
Balog
Member
Ah, nothing I love more than a good "pit bulls are eevvviillll" discussion.
Let me put it to you this way. There are a lot of inner city areas where most violent crime is committed by young black men. There are a lot of border towns where most violent crime is committed by illegal immigrants. There are a lot of rural southern areas where most violent crime is committed by trailer trash running meth labs. The solution to these problems is not genociding everyone who fits the profile. And banning pits is the doggy equivalent to genocide.
The problem is the owners, not the breed. Pits and other fighting breeds actually bite people much less often then cute fluffy breeds like cocker spaniels. The just get a lot more press when they do because the results are so horrible.
Let me put it to you this way. There are a lot of inner city areas where most violent crime is committed by young black men. There are a lot of border towns where most violent crime is committed by illegal immigrants. There are a lot of rural southern areas where most violent crime is committed by trailer trash running meth labs. The solution to these problems is not genociding everyone who fits the profile. And banning pits is the doggy equivalent to genocide.
The problem is the owners, not the breed. Pits and other fighting breeds actually bite people much less often then cute fluffy breeds like cocker spaniels. The just get a lot more press when they do because the results are so horrible.
charby
Member
Three years of my undergrad I worked in a private vet clinic, dealt with a lot of pitbulls (and similars), Rotts and other vicious dogs. Never got bitten once by a large dog, got a few warnings from a couple to warm me they were going to bite. I got bit quite a bit from ankle biters, especially ones that came from little old widowed ladies, they little dogs were the alpha dog in these old ladies lives and were such a pain to deal with at the vet.
The animal that bit me the most was cats, just plain old house cats, they are biting and clawing machines. I had a paid of leather gloves that went to my shoulders and a face mask if I was handling a unknown cat or a known little pissy furball.
Dogs are great, so are cats but as mentioned above most behaviorial problems are from the owners not giving a damn about their pet and properly socializing it.
Charby
The animal that bit me the most was cats, just plain old house cats, they are biting and clawing machines. I had a paid of leather gloves that went to my shoulders and a face mask if I was handling a unknown cat or a known little pissy furball.
Dogs are great, so are cats but as mentioned above most behaviorial problems are from the owners not giving a damn about their pet and properly socializing it.
Charby
Ryder
Member
My dog is very smart (all 140lbs of her). She has never been mistreated and gets tons of love from everyone that meets her, even strangers. Grown men, teenagers, little kids, cops, even handicapped in a wheel chair. She's met them all. But she is a guard dog and a serious force of nature when she goes on alert. I've seen it a few times when I didn't let people in after they knocked or she hears a voice in the yard at night. She is suspicious of any stranger but only until she decides their intentions or reads mine. Her instinct is infalible and I am very proud of her.
If you go around with a sneaky or confrontational attitude you will have a problem. Dogs don't like that sort of thing any more than people do. They don't recognize government authority, only their owner's.
If you go around with a sneaky or confrontational attitude you will have a problem. Dogs don't like that sort of thing any more than people do. They don't recognize government authority, only their owner's.
joab
Member
I see alot of "people are the problem not the dogs" posts. And a few "people should be responsible for the damage the dog doesers".
Unfortunately taking responsibility does not repair the damage done.
What would be wrong with taking preventative measures by requiring that dogs, all dogs, are properly restrained and treated humanely within reason.
Would protecting the public from a very real threat somehow violate the owners constitutional rights.
The research I have done shows that the majority of "Pit" attacks are actually Pit/Lab mixes under 2 years old.
Different breeds have ingrained traits, pits are no different. What they lack in natural aggression they make up for in prey instinct and tenacity..
When most other dogs will break off an attack the pits don't seem to have the same off switch, even in play
Unfortunately taking responsibility does not repair the damage done.
What would be wrong with taking preventative measures by requiring that dogs, all dogs, are properly restrained and treated humanely within reason.
Would protecting the public from a very real threat somehow violate the owners constitutional rights.
These dogs are no longer bred exclusively for fighting, they are bred to be thug dogs and guard dogs also, where aggressiveness is a prized trait. They are also cross bred so much that now you don't really know what is attacking you.
The research I have done shows that the majority of "Pit" attacks are actually Pit/Lab mixes under 2 years old.
Different breeds have ingrained traits, pits are no different. What they lack in natural aggression they make up for in prey instinct and tenacity..
When most other dogs will break off an attack the pits don't seem to have the same off switch, even in play
Shoot the thugs, not the dogs. Matter of fact, send me all the pits and dobies you can confiscate, the only other breed I really trust to not bite is the blue tick coonhound.
Five acres of sunshine, green grass, and clean water, and all the tennis balls they can eat.
S/F
Farnham
Five acres of sunshine, green grass, and clean water, and all the tennis balls they can eat.
S/F
Farnham
Headless Thompson Gunner
Member
Tell that to the pit bull that attcked my mother.
Umm, no... It's not how scary they are, it's how much damage they can do. A poodle can't take your arm off, a pit bull can.
It's fine with with me if you want one of the big agressive breeds as a pet. Free country and all that. But I won't hesitate to pop your cuddly pooch the moment he leaves your control and makes an agressive move towards me.
Joejojoba111
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"A poodle can't take your arm off, a pit bull can."
Do you have any idea how many things in life can take your arm off? Ok let's list them. do you want to go by industry, manufacturer, or alphabetical? I was going to start with farming equipment. OK alphabetical, A- administrative - paper-shredders. Paper shredders can take your arm off. Amputation, an Afghan hound, an afghan hound can take your arm off. amputation can take your arm off. Apple-pickers, apple-picking machines can take your arm off. Asteroid, an asteroid can take your arm off.
Ok that's getting tediuos. How about we just list all the features that are dangerous about dogs, and set some limits? You're allowed only two dangerous features per dog.
So weight, heavy weight is a dangerous feature. Teeth, large teeth are a dangerous feature. Jaws, powerful jaws are a dangerous feature. Claws, long claws are a dangerous feature. Dog instincts, the nature of dogs is a dangerous feature. Studded collars, these look scary and are thus a dangerous feature.
A combination of any 3 or more of the above features shall constitute an 'Assault Dog', and is thus illegal, the owner of said dog has 30 days to kill said dog or face imprisonment in a federal jail of not less than 10 years.
Do you have any idea how many things in life can take your arm off? Ok let's list them. do you want to go by industry, manufacturer, or alphabetical? I was going to start with farming equipment. OK alphabetical, A- administrative - paper-shredders. Paper shredders can take your arm off. Amputation, an Afghan hound, an afghan hound can take your arm off. amputation can take your arm off. Apple-pickers, apple-picking machines can take your arm off. Asteroid, an asteroid can take your arm off.
Ok that's getting tediuos. How about we just list all the features that are dangerous about dogs, and set some limits? You're allowed only two dangerous features per dog.
So weight, heavy weight is a dangerous feature. Teeth, large teeth are a dangerous feature. Jaws, powerful jaws are a dangerous feature. Claws, long claws are a dangerous feature. Dog instincts, the nature of dogs is a dangerous feature. Studded collars, these look scary and are thus a dangerous feature.
A combination of any 3 or more of the above features shall constitute an 'Assault Dog', and is thus illegal, the owner of said dog has 30 days to kill said dog or face imprisonment in a federal jail of not less than 10 years.
Bwahahaha
The animal that bit me the most was cats, just plain old house cats, they are biting and clawing machines. I had a paid of leather gloves that went to my shoulders and a face mask if I was handling a unknown cat or a known little pissy furball.
LMAO, ok that one put me on the floor.
I have five cats, which are extremely sweet... to ME.
(ok, to Revdisk too, but he bought em off, the chump!)
And they're not fond of being flea-dipped on the rare occasion, I sooo feel your pain, and bleeding, and twitchy psychotic state induced by trying to sooth and handle a pissed off feline.
Cats are generally prideful, protective of their dignity, desire to be handled on their own terms, and when hassled or maligned, tend to get really indignant and shred everything in sight.
I suppose that makes em a lot like gun enthusiasts, dunnit ?
-K
The animal that bit me the most was cats, just plain old house cats, they are biting and clawing machines. I had a paid of leather gloves that went to my shoulders and a face mask if I was handling a unknown cat or a known little pissy furball.
LMAO, ok that one put me on the floor.
I have five cats, which are extremely sweet... to ME.
(ok, to Revdisk too, but he bought em off, the chump!)
And they're not fond of being flea-dipped on the rare occasion, I sooo feel your pain, and bleeding, and twitchy psychotic state induced by trying to sooth and handle a pissed off feline.
Cats are generally prideful, protective of their dignity, desire to be handled on their own terms, and when hassled or maligned, tend to get really indignant and shred everything in sight.
I suppose that makes em a lot like gun enthusiasts, dunnit ?
-K
Headless Thompson Gunner
Member
Joejojoba111, there's a wee little difference between assault weapons and dogs.
Guns are inanimate objects that can't do anything without human intervention. When was the last time your assault rifle decided to climb out of the safe and run around town randomly shooting anybody it didn't like?
Dogs are different. They have a mind of their own. A dog can decide to climb out of its fence on its own. A dog can walk down the street and randomly attack people on its.
If a given dog is big enough to do serious damage to a person, then it's up to the owner to make sure that dog is under their control at all times. Many owners are up to the task. Sadly, some are not.
In the end, it doesn't matter whether your life is threatened by a criminal with a knife or by an agressive dog. You are morally obligated to defend yourself. If you don't like this, move to England where self defense is illegal.
(And I NEVER suggested that any type of dog be banned. Go reread my post, Joejojoba111)
Guns are inanimate objects that can't do anything without human intervention. When was the last time your assault rifle decided to climb out of the safe and run around town randomly shooting anybody it didn't like?
Dogs are different. They have a mind of their own. A dog can decide to climb out of its fence on its own. A dog can walk down the street and randomly attack people on its.
If a given dog is big enough to do serious damage to a person, then it's up to the owner to make sure that dog is under their control at all times. Many owners are up to the task. Sadly, some are not.
In the end, it doesn't matter whether your life is threatened by a criminal with a knife or by an agressive dog. You are morally obligated to defend yourself. If you don't like this, move to England where self defense is illegal.
(And I NEVER suggested that any type of dog be banned. Go reread my post, Joejojoba111)
Joejojoba111
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Who defines serious damage? Out curiousity does the arm have to come completely off, or can it still be hanging by a few loose ligaments? Or is it more like pornography, "you know it when you see it"?
Bravo11
Member
I was just about to reply with a certain take on this but Headless Tommy Gunner beat me to it. If my handgun was laying out in my front yard and someone walked by I can assure you my gun would just ignore them.
You can't compare guns to dogs. I'm not up on enough of this topic to say whether or not I would support legislation concerning dogs but when I walk around in my nieghborhood with my family I am legally armed. Not so much to defend myself from gang bangers but from dogs that charge at us barking like they are going to attack. I have never shot a dog and hopefully I will never have to but if one enters my space in an agressive posture I will defend myself.
You can't compare guns to dogs. I'm not up on enough of this topic to say whether or not I would support legislation concerning dogs but when I walk around in my nieghborhood with my family I am legally armed. Not so much to defend myself from gang bangers but from dogs that charge at us barking like they are going to attack. I have never shot a dog and hopefully I will never have to but if one enters my space in an agressive posture I will defend myself.
CannibalCrowley
Member
Ingrid Newkirk (PETA founder) thinks pitbulls should be banned too (both breeding and owning). Do you really want to put yourself on the same side of the issue as her?
MikeIsaj
Member
Getting back to the origionl question...
Close but, not quite the situation. I think most people don't raise the dog to be vicious, they fail to raise the dog to be well mannered.
A dog is going to be a dog. They see the world through a dogs eyes and interpret what they see with a dogs brain. Since they are pretty smart critters, we can teach them acceptable rules of conduct in our pack. We can also make them accept our role as the "Alpha" and their role as obedient pack members. With a Labrador, this is easy because they like to be led. Shepherds are a little different. My experience with three shepherds and a fourth in training now, is that they will spend their lifetime pushing to be the Alpha. When people get these dogs without realising the lifetime commitment to training and maintaining behavior, you end up with the dog running the house.
The reason the dog is not vicious to its family is that they are already submissive to the animal. Let them forget their place and try to control the alpha, and you will see the dog put them pack in line quickly.
As for pit bulls, I don't own them so I really don't have the experience to comment.
Close but, not quite the situation. I think most people don't raise the dog to be vicious, they fail to raise the dog to be well mannered.
A dog is going to be a dog. They see the world through a dogs eyes and interpret what they see with a dogs brain. Since they are pretty smart critters, we can teach them acceptable rules of conduct in our pack. We can also make them accept our role as the "Alpha" and their role as obedient pack members. With a Labrador, this is easy because they like to be led. Shepherds are a little different. My experience with three shepherds and a fourth in training now, is that they will spend their lifetime pushing to be the Alpha. When people get these dogs without realising the lifetime commitment to training and maintaining behavior, you end up with the dog running the house.
The reason the dog is not vicious to its family is that they are already submissive to the animal. Let them forget their place and try to control the alpha, and you will see the dog put them pack in line quickly.
As for pit bulls, I don't own them so I really don't have the experience to comment.
DonNikmare
Member
Two years ago...the around 18 year old gang banger across the street got his car's back window shot out (one set of neighbors moved over it). So he decided he'd keep his german shepard sibirian huski cross dog unleashed in the front yard. Until then I had no idea they even had a dog, they kept it in the back yard.
So the dog is just resting in the front yard under the shade of a tree. I figured it was a stray dog that would move on but it did concern me as my 1 and 1/2 year old's face was exactly at the height of that dog's mouth.
I was doing some yard work when I heard grawling right behind my back. I turned around and that dog was about six feet behind me and slowly closing. I went for a nearby shovel and charged back until the dog retreated back across the street. Same thing happened 2 more times - the damn thing considered my yard part of his teritory. I could not go knock on the folk's door as the dog was there and not happy. So, I went inside and called the police.
They arrived but there was no sign of the dog. I thought that it was homeless after all and had moved on.
A few days later, the same exact thing happens, only I catch the dog retreating into the back yard of the house across the street. I try to approach several times but it comes charging around the corner. So I call the police again.
This time I told the officer that the dog was in the back yard and to be careful. He went to knock on the door across the street and that dog came out charging again. He pulled his pepper sprey and yelled at it to stop so they stood there him with the ps aimed at the dog and it grawling and going from side to side. After the neighbors finally came out, the police officer told them that if that dog was caught loose again they would have to pay a fine and left.
I appologized to them for having to call the police and explained. I never saw that stupid dog again.
Now two years later and after the gang banger's car's windows got smashed with a baseball bat they are raising a pit. I hope he behaves and stays put on his side of the street preferably out of my sight or he'll get a little more than a swing or two with a shovel.
Back home in Europe, all I had to do was bend over as if I was picking up a rock and 99% of dogs regardless of size or numner in the pack would run off.
So the dog is just resting in the front yard under the shade of a tree. I figured it was a stray dog that would move on but it did concern me as my 1 and 1/2 year old's face was exactly at the height of that dog's mouth.
I was doing some yard work when I heard grawling right behind my back. I turned around and that dog was about six feet behind me and slowly closing. I went for a nearby shovel and charged back until the dog retreated back across the street. Same thing happened 2 more times - the damn thing considered my yard part of his teritory. I could not go knock on the folk's door as the dog was there and not happy. So, I went inside and called the police.
They arrived but there was no sign of the dog. I thought that it was homeless after all and had moved on.
A few days later, the same exact thing happens, only I catch the dog retreating into the back yard of the house across the street. I try to approach several times but it comes charging around the corner. So I call the police again.
This time I told the officer that the dog was in the back yard and to be careful. He went to knock on the door across the street and that dog came out charging again. He pulled his pepper sprey and yelled at it to stop so they stood there him with the ps aimed at the dog and it grawling and going from side to side. After the neighbors finally came out, the police officer told them that if that dog was caught loose again they would have to pay a fine and left.
I appologized to them for having to call the police and explained. I never saw that stupid dog again.
Now two years later and after the gang banger's car's windows got smashed with a baseball bat they are raising a pit. I hope he behaves and stays put on his side of the street preferably out of my sight or he'll get a little more than a swing or two with a shovel.
Back home in Europe, all I had to do was bend over as if I was picking up a rock and 99% of dogs regardless of size or numner in the pack would run off.
115grfmj
Member
Here in NJ alot of these dogs.....
become too much for their owners, and are routinely dumped in wooded
area and become a feral nuisance. I encountered a few of them while
hunting. Last fall, I was tree stand hunting and was preparing to get
down at dusk. A large Rottweiler (with collar) materialized
out of the brush and charged, while I was still descending. I Quickly climbed back up and called around thinking it's owner was nearby. The dog
laid down at the foot of my tree, and growled at me for a few minutes.
Well.....I wasn't going to worry about this thing chasing me the whole
mile to my car, in the dark.
So I looked at him said "Sorry Pal", and gave him a 3 inch load of Winchester Supreme OOO Buck. Range 4Yds +
Modified choke = Yuck!!!!
His collar did'nt have a tag, he was scarred up (full of bite scars)
but well fed.
People that buy these dogs, and turn them loose pose a real problem
to sportsmen, every where
become too much for their owners, and are routinely dumped in wooded
area and become a feral nuisance. I encountered a few of them while
hunting. Last fall, I was tree stand hunting and was preparing to get
down at dusk. A large Rottweiler (with collar) materialized
out of the brush and charged, while I was still descending.
I Quickly climbed back up and called around thinking it's owner was nearby. The doglaid down at the foot of my tree, and growled at me for a few minutes.
Well.....I wasn't going to worry about this thing chasing me the whole
mile to my car, in the dark.
So I looked at him said "Sorry Pal", and gave him a 3 inch load of Winchester Supreme OOO Buck. Range 4Yds +Modified choke = Yuck!!!!
His collar did'nt have a tag, he was scarred up (full of bite scars)
but well fed.
People that buy these dogs, and turn them loose pose a real problem
to sportsmen, every where
Dirty Bob
Member
I don't blame the dogs, just the owners
It tears me up to hear all of these stories. I love dogs, but it's obvious that in some of these situations, only the destruction of the animal will stop the threat. I had a similar situation about 20 years ago in Rohnert Park, CA, with a neighbor's dog that was allowed to run loose and kept biting people. The police could never find it when they were called. Someone finally ran it over with a car, probably on purpose.
A sad but useful topic.
Dirty Bob
It tears me up to hear all of these stories. I love dogs, but it's obvious that in some of these situations, only the destruction of the animal will stop the threat. I had a similar situation about 20 years ago in Rohnert Park, CA, with a neighbor's dog that was allowed to run loose and kept biting people. The police could never find it when they were called. Someone finally ran it over with a car, probably on purpose.
A sad but useful topic.
Dirty Bob
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