What to carry that requires twice daily administrative handling?

[Varminterror]

Meh, I carry an empty chamber a lot, and all the naysayers and doom and gloom folks don't bother me. If it kills me someday, so be it.

It adds time, no way around it.

If you own it, I have no qualms.

It’s the delusional folks who lie to themselves and others by claiming it’s just as fast...

 

[Lucky Derby]

A moon clip revolver seems to be the the safest & easiest way to stay in policy & still be armed.

 

[Labguy47]

I always liked this video.

 

[rpenmanparker]

What about rolling down the window? When does that happen? Or opening the car door? Are you just going to shoot through the windshield? I don’t think so. There is so much opportunity to rack the slide while other things are going on that are not shooting in a car situation. I don’t buy slower enough to matter at all. That is what insignificant means. That is what it isn’t the OK Corral means.

 

[rpenmanparker]

And by the way, the Israeli’s know a thing or two about operating guns.

 

[rpenmanparker]

I always liked this video.

That video is very, very instructive and useful to our discussion, but not perhaps in the way some think. It represents exactly what we are NOT talking about. If I had been allowed to have a gun on my work premises, it would have had to be locked in the glove box before I could enter the premises. LOCKED in the glove box. Do you perhaps have a video of Jerry M. In that situation. Unlocking the glove box, retrieving the gun, exiting the car, crouching behind the car door, and THEN shooting his way to glory like in the one you posted. Would it look quite the same?

 

[Nuclear]

The ideal setup would be a moonclip revolver in a cross draw holster (an Andrews Carjacker cross draw comes to mind). Condition 3 not only takes more time and can be messed up, but it takes two hands. Where as a loaded gun just takes the pull of the trigger, with possibly swiping off of a safety, all done with one hand freeing the other hand for other possible actions.

 

[rpenmanparker]

The ideal setup would be a moonclip revolver in a cross draw holster (an Andrews Carjacker cross draw comes to mind). Condition 3 not only takes more time and can be messed up, but it takes two hands. Where as a loaded gun just takes the pull of the trigger, with possibly swiping off of a safety, all done with one hand freeing the other hand for other possible actions.

Uh, oh! Now you’ve done it. You said the dirty word, “crossdraw”. Better duck, the poop will be flying now.

 

[Labguy47]

THEN shooting his way to glory like in the one you posted. Would it look quite the same?

Of course not, it was the mention of moon clips and JMs reload that brought this to mind.
I don’t understand your glovebox enthatuation either....

 

[rpenmanparker]

Of course not, it was the mention of moon clips and JMs reload that brought this to mind.
I don’t understand your glovebox enthatuation either....

Glove box or gun safe. On most business premises the gun must be locked up.

 

[bearcreek]

Tossing a setback round into your range time does not solve the problem unfortunately. Especially if you have been setting it back for a week ot two by repeatedly rechambering it. You don't want to shoot a round like that - especially in some calibers that run at higher pressures.

He wasn't talking about waiting till it was set back to toss it into the practice ammo. He was saying to regularly shoot the top round before it gets set back.

 

[straightshooterjake]

What about rolling down the window? When does that happen? Or opening the car door? Are you just going to shoot through the windshield?

I don't want to be disrespectful, or off topic for this thread, but I want to address this specific area.

A defensive handgun should only be used when there is an immediate and serious threat to human life. So yes, you shoot through glass if that is the most effective way to protect human life. If you believe that your rounds will not penetrate the heavy glass, or that you cannot make an effective hit though the glass, then you might take a different shot. But if you are still concerned about damage to the windshield, then it is probably not time to shoot yet.

I can imagine situations where rolling down the window or opening the door would be good strategies, but those situations are very unlikely. In most such situations, trying to drive the car would be better. If you are boxed in, but can escape by damaging your car or nearby inanimate objects, that is likely to be an overall win.

And now, back to your previous channel about administrative handling of handguns. This thread so far has been interesting.

 

[JR24]

If I had to unload/load twice a day I'd echo the revolver chorus. Moon clips are nice but if you practice a bit it's pretty easy to just dump rounds back into a speedloader pretty quick.

Used to do that when I carried a .357 for a woods gun, open cylindar line up the open speed loader, dump, lock the loader. Few seconds, pretty much just as fast as loading.

 

[rpenmanparker]

I don't want to be disrespectful, or off topic for this thread, but I want to address this specific area.

A defensive handgun should only be used when there is an immediate and serious threat to human life. So yes, you shoot through glass if that is the most effective way to protect human life. If you believe that your rounds will not penetrate the heavy glass, or that you cannot make an effective hit though the glass, then you might take a different shot. But if you are still concerned about damage to the windshield, then it is probably not time to shoot yet.

I can imagine situations where rolling down the window or opening the door would be good strategies, but those situations are very unlikely. In most such situations, trying to drive the car would be better. If you are boxed in, but can escape by damaging your car or nearby inanimate objects, that is likely to be an overall win.

And now, back to your previous channel about administrative handling of handguns. This thread so far has been interesting.

I apologize for any misunderstanding. I did not mean that one ought to protect the windshield at the risk of human life. I meant that through-glass shots are notoriously unpredictable and are an undesirable tactic. Ya gotta do whatcha gotta do, but shooting through glass is not a first choice.

 

[George P]

Glove box or gun safe. On most business premises the gun must be locked up.

Who's going to know that you have a gun in your car, let alone whether or not the glove box is locked?

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I know what I'd do in this situation but it doesn't sound like the OP is willing to do that so I'll stop right there on advice on his particular situation.

I will say a word about the condition three carry being mentioned by some. If you're going to travel that road it should be all the time. Carrying your EDC in different conditions is just as bad as carrying half a dozen different pieces with all different manual of arms.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Since there is a policy that lets you do this, you might also write a memo noting the increased risk of negligent discharge from the mandatory administrative gun handling. Maybe you can get the process changed.

 

[rpenmanparker]

Who's going to know that you have a gun in your car, let alone whether or not the glove box is locked?

George, it isn’t as common as it once was, but there are still many folks for whom a lifetime career is of paramount importance. For a rules infraction like you are discussing at my place of employment even a top executive would be tossed out the door on their butt without a second thought. No recourse. Considering the common practice of vehicle searches that is a risk that is just uncceptable to career-minded folk. After all, we aren’t talking about an after school job bagging groceries. Many folks train for more than a decade to earn a chance for a lifetime career with a company. Condition 3 vs.1 is an acceptable trade off against the loss of one’s livelihood. You may not think the risks are similar, but many people would. I have seen a lot of career folks walked out the door for minor rules infractions and wouldn’t want to be one of them.

 

[cslinger]

I kinda fall in the “has a car EVER been searched and even then would even having a gun in this world forms or not, still get you labeled a pariah and run out. Heck I would almost just play the “damn I do this everyday I must have forgot to unchamber this morning I was running late.......”

That being said 7 or 8 shot moon clipped revolver. Easy in, easy out, no setback issues, plenty of firepower for the real world and fun to boot. In .357/.38 I prefer to only use the moon clip on the first extract and a speed loader on subsequent reload. For admin handling though dumping the moon and reloading is damn near perfect, just don’t dork the clip up.

 

[Doc7]

Thanks all. I’ve been on vacation out of country since I started the thread so I havent been back.

I did write an email explaining the disappointment that the form calls for an unloaded weapon, particular since during a 6 month period a new revision of the form did not have that requirement, and the response I got was that the unloaded requirement had been deleted for those 6 months as a typo/mistake and that’s why it has been reinstated. I am at a site under construction with care custody and control by the EPC contractor, so the company form doesn’t even cover me for a few months from now at which time my company will own the site. The current site manager (Construction group) has an absolute no weapons policy (to include pocket knives, leathermen, etc) and can and does do random vehicle searches.

As other posters have indicated, as far as careers go, i would not violate this company policy regardless of the odds of a vehicle search. If I am willing to violate a company policy, I will find a new company to work for.

This doesn’t apply to businesses I patronize on the way home, but getting asked to leave (all they can do in VA) is not the same as losing a career in a company in a field for which there aren’t “small companies” with better policies doing the same type of work.

I may continue to push the issue with the corporate security people when I get opportunities (along the lines of my original email to them, “Have you considered that this requires twice daily unloading/loading, which has most certainly led to negligent discharges, and there are zero verified incidents of a discharge of a holstered unattended modern firearm that I know of in the literature”). As others have posted though, even submitting the form seems like it could have career limiting implications. I know for a fact that the form has been signed with great hesitation on behalf of the regional director, who is a great person and a very intelligent man. However, he’s hesitant about signing this particular form. Certainly might play a part in his opinion of me if and when I submit one.

 

[Kendahl]

I had a job for a few years where I was driving brand new Cadillac and Lincoln limos through some very bad parts of town every day and I was told by my employer that every time I stopped at a light or a stop sign to be VERY aware of individuals waiting to jerk your door open and yank you out of the vehicle.

They will have a hard time jerking open a locked door. They may break the window but the door will slow them down.

 

[Kendahl]

I'd keep a can of pepper spray on me before carrying in Condition 3.

Attacks that only justify defense using less than deadly force far outnumber attacks that justify deadly force. That makes it worth having a less than deadly alternative even if you carry a gun. Pepper spray is one choice. Martial arts is another. (I'm too small, too weak and too old for anything but pepper spray.)

 

[Drail]

deleted

 

[rpenmanparker]

I kinda fall in the “has a car EVER been searched and even then would even having a gun in this world forms or not, still get you labeled a pariah and run out. Heck I would almost just play the “damn I do this everyday I must have forgot to unchamber this morning I was running late.......”

I suspect your attitude reflects that the kind of policy adherence I discussed above is outside of your experience. I worked for one of the largest companies in the world. You didn’t BS your way out of a rules infraction. Alcohol on site, even locked in your car meant instant dismissal. Illegal drugs the same. Firearms the same. Ammo the same. Any lying or dishonesty regarding your actions, your expense account, etc., the same. Bye-bye. Don’t let the door hit you in the butt.

I had a boss just below the VP level who was canned for taking his neighbor to dinner on company funds on a regular basis on the pretext that the neighbor was also a customer.

A coworker had a bottle of wine she needed to give me for six months before she finally took it to a professional society meeting we were both attending in Chicago and gave it to me there. Neither one of us would take the risk of her bringing it to me at the worksite, and she lived too far away on the other side of the office to make it practical for me to go to her house to pick it up.

I’m telling you that these rules have teeth in corporate America.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

As others have stated, a revolver with moon clips is probably the simplest way to handle the situation. My 625 is incredibly easy to clear and reload.

Another choice would be a Beretta with a tip up barrel, like a Tpmcat or an 86, to eliminate the set back issue