What Weapon For HD OTHER than a firearm?
- Thread starter Cosmoline
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Tylden
Member
I'd call my ex wife and pi** her off, then hide. In a matter of minutes I could just sit back and watch the SHTF LOL
wizard of oz
Member
for a defensive weapon I personally rule out knives because I want something that can physically block an attack. I vote for a 6 D cell maglite - especially at night.
fistful
member
Whatever it is, it must have some range. Even a kukri seems a little short to me. Your threat could have a big knife, a club, a chain. Pick something with some reach. Spear idea sounds interesting.
Smokey Joe
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Remember, the H in HD is for HOME!
Fistful--Remember, we're talkin' inside the home here. Anything you need much room to operate will be unwieldy, clunky, awkward.
Spears, chains, bats (except as a blunt thrusting weapon) are out. Big knife only works as a thrusting weapon. Somebody said hatchet--again, only for thrusting, and the blade is pointed wrong.
Swing something around, or over yr head, and all you'll accomplish will be to damage the plasterwork, and knock pictures off the walls.
Fistful--Remember, we're talkin' inside the home here. Anything you need much room to operate will be unwieldy, clunky, awkward.
Spears, chains, bats (except as a blunt thrusting weapon) are out. Big knife only works as a thrusting weapon. Somebody said hatchet--again, only for thrusting, and the blade is pointed wrong.
Swing something around, or over yr head, and all you'll accomplish will be to damage the plasterwork, and knock pictures off the walls.
AStone
Member
i gotta agree with smokey joe here.
that's why i said knife.
if some demonic force prevented use of an 870, then shut down my 9mm pistol, what i'd prefer next is a 5", very sharp blade with a positive non slip handle, like the one that i repelled ------- ------- with in high school when he tried to clean my plow with his fist. up yours, dude, i said to him. come on and feel this blade.
i was not the aggressor. he was.
admittedly, he did not see a baseball bat in my hand from afar. he saw a knife only after he'd commited to conflict inside my personal space.
so, i'll stick to my original choice: a 5" fixed blade knife.
sure, ok, i'll add a maglite in my left hand.
but given a choice between a maglight and a fixed blade, i hope i leave little doubt about which one i'd choose.
that's why i said knife.
if some demonic force prevented use of an 870, then shut down my 9mm pistol, what i'd prefer next is a 5", very sharp blade with a positive non slip handle, like the one that i repelled ------- ------- with in high school when he tried to clean my plow with his fist. up yours, dude, i said to him. come on and feel this blade.
i was not the aggressor. he was.
admittedly, he did not see a baseball bat in my hand from afar. he saw a knife only after he'd commited to conflict inside my personal space.
so, i'll stick to my original choice: a 5" fixed blade knife.
sure, ok, i'll add a maglite in my left hand.
but given a choice between a maglight and a fixed blade, i hope i leave little doubt about which one i'd choose.
BryanP
Member
And here I thought I was the only one who kept a Kukri "decoratively" displayed on his nightstand. 
I also have the Taurus .357 next to it, mind you. I'm crazy, not stupid.
I also have the Taurus .357 next to it, mind you. I'm crazy, not stupid.
El Tejon
Member
Used to sleep with a baton in Chicago, but lived in a studio apartment. Have to go with knife of some sort.
FSCJedi
Member
I said "axe", and assumed it meant some sort of handaxe, like a hatchet or tomahawk, not a big 'ol two-hander. I keep a tomahawk right beside my bed... and a longsword in one corner, 12-gauge in another corner, and pistol on my nightstand. But the tomahawk is my melee weapon of choice, usually accompanied by a large bowie.
Dirty Bob
Member
Short sword.
Quick, allows thrusting. Leaves the other hand free. A sword is a scary weapon to face, especially in the hands of someone who knows how to use it.
Regards,
Dirty Bob
Quick, allows thrusting. Leaves the other hand free. A sword is a scary weapon to face, especially in the hands of someone who knows how to use it.
Regards,
Dirty Bob
fistful
member
This point has been made before, and is very important. However, it can be overstated. There's a risk on one side of a weapon that's too long; and on the other, of a weapon that forces you to get too close to the bad guy. A 12' spear is too long, but a kitchen knife may be too short, especially if your home invader has a crowbar or something else with a little bit of reach.
Lots of us are suggesting shotguns as our primary HD, and these are usually between three and four feet long. Of course, you're probably not swinging your shotgun, you're just pointing it at the threat. What if you had something the size of a shotgun that you could use to thrust (which doesn't take a lot of room), but that you could also swing when you have room. Even if you live in a little dorm room, you've probably got room to swing something the size of a riot gun. That's why a short spear (four feet long?) or something similar seems attractive to me, and why some are suggesting short swords. Axes and shovels also come in a variety of sizes, some of which might be small enough to swing indoors, but long enough to keep you out of butcher knife range.
I'm no combat expert, but I do carry a four-inch knife everyday (as a tool), and I know it doesn't give me much confidence for self-defense, precisely because it is too short.
AStone
Member
short sword questions
Fistful & Dirty Bob,
You make good arguments for "short sword" v. "short knife" like I have.
Keeping in mind that I'm not a 'sword' guy - never even held one before - would you (and others) be willing to offer opinions about:
1) what range of lengths do you consider "short" (yes, i acknowledge a lot of gray area there)
2) any maker names you might want to suggest?
3) what's the best way to learn basic defensive use of such a weapon should one want to pursue it? Book? Class? Both? (I'm not sure i would pursue such a weapon - I've got my hands full now just trying to become more proficient with a handgun and (soon) a shotgun, but it's an intriguing idea.)
Thanks in advance for any opinions (and another interesting and useful thread).
Nema
Fistful & Dirty Bob,
You make good arguments for "short sword" v. "short knife" like I have.
Keeping in mind that I'm not a 'sword' guy - never even held one before - would you (and others) be willing to offer opinions about:
1) what range of lengths do you consider "short" (yes, i acknowledge a lot of gray area there)
2) any maker names you might want to suggest?
3) what's the best way to learn basic defensive use of such a weapon should one want to pursue it? Book? Class? Both? (I'm not sure i would pursue such a weapon - I've got my hands full now just trying to become more proficient with a handgun and (soon) a shotgun, but it's an intriguing idea.)
Thanks in advance for any opinions (and another interesting and useful thread).
Nema
Dirty Bob
Member
Nematocyst-870 asked:
I don't know any current makers. I have a WWI German bayonet as one example. It's single edged and very, very fast, with a good point. It's currently dismounted for a new hilt. My other (and my favorite) is my qama, a double-edged short sword that Atlanta Cutlery used to sell. It's quick and has a heck of a point.
My sword background comes from two sources: Filipino martial arts, and the Society for Creative Anachronism. Both were useful, and each affected my training in the other.
Any other opinions on this?
Dirty Bob
What qualifies as a "short sword" may vary from person to person, depending on their body type, techniques, etc. When I think short sword, I picture something about the size of a Roman gladius, with a blade of perhaps 16-24" and a hilt for just one hand.
I don't know any current makers. I have a WWI German bayonet as one example. It's single edged and very, very fast, with a good point. It's currently dismounted for a new hilt. My other (and my favorite) is my qama, a double-edged short sword that Atlanta Cutlery used to sell. It's quick and has a heck of a point.
My sword background comes from two sources: Filipino martial arts, and the Society for Creative Anachronism. Both were useful, and each affected my training in the other.
Any other opinions on this?
Dirty Bob
A good kukuri is a fearsome weapon, as is a nice, large bowie. There are a variety of excellent mid-size kuks from HI for $100 or less, if you're willing to watch the BladeForums HI forum for a few days to pick one up.
I do like some of the older sword bayonets like you mention, Bob. The good thing about a kukuri is the blade geometry and balance gives a great deal of power with a shorter blade, when compared to a thin, straight blade like the typical WWI-WWII bayonets.
For me (66", 155 lbs), a 16-19" (OAL) kukuri seems ideal for most purposes.
John
I do like some of the older sword bayonets like you mention, Bob. The good thing about a kukuri is the blade geometry and balance gives a great deal of power with a shorter blade, when compared to a thin, straight blade like the typical WWI-WWII bayonets.
For me (66", 155 lbs), a 16-19" (OAL) kukuri seems ideal for most purposes.
John
AStone
Member
ROFL.
OK, so what do i want to clean up: blood, or blood AND brains?
Hmmm....
Well, if I get to shoot him, I'd put up with the mess. Especially since I'd probably use a 12ga loaded with 00 buck.
A solid smack to the head with a baseball bat would likely remove the threat quicker than a slash/stab to some other part of the body. Head=CNS=immediate incapacitation.
fistful
member
I was just thinking:
1. Is a Kukri any good for thrusting? Ya know, 'cause we're talking about confined spaces and all that.
2. If one had a chainsaw that reliably started first pull, every time, wouldn't that be the ultimate short sword for HD? Not that you would actually have to use it on someone, unless the bad guy was deaf.
1. Is a Kukri any good for thrusting? Ya know, 'cause we're talking about confined spaces and all that.
2. If one had a chainsaw that reliably started first pull, every time, wouldn't that be the ultimate short sword for HD? Not that you would actually have to use it on someone, unless the bad guy was deaf.
AStone
Member
bats v. blades
In general, if you can crack that pumpkin and damage the neural tissue inputing sensory information or motor regions routing action potentials to the muscles, or better yet, the brainstem (lower back of skull near intersection with spinal cord), then instant incapacitation. Battle over (at least that part of it).
Problem i still have with a bat is time & room to swing. Not that i have anything against bats. I've had one nearby for years. Part of the arsenal (and during graduate school days when I couldn't afford a gun for a short time, it was THE arsenal. Never again, thanks.)
But if we're talking what would i grab in the middle of the night other than a K9 or 870, "bat" just still isn't my first choice.
I'm actually leaning towards the short sword side right now. I've even been looking at some on line, just for grins of course ( ). {{{Darnit people, quit posting such interesting threads! I've got work to do! }}}
<WARNING! non expert warrior pontificating ahead; hip boots may be required...>
I'm thinking the guy has just surprized me by jumping from around a corner or i'm trying to get out of bed quickly cause i've just realized he's only 10' away and coming on, so I've got seconds to grab a weapon. (As opposed to lots of time to prepare a strategy.)
To be effective, a bat needs to be raised and lowered with force. I guess a jabbing gut punch would be useful as a first pass, then a head whack, but that incapacitating head blow would require raising above head or to the side over shoulder (as in baseball), and then a return.
Same thing for a hatchet, tomahawk, machete: up first, then down.
For a smaller guy like me (~140#), that's a lot of mass to accelerate, decelerate, then accelerate again towards a pumpkin with enough force to crack it.
Or am i missing something here? Is "ready" for such a weapon in the "up position" rather than "low ready"? Seems like that would be unwieldly and tiring. I wouldn't want to remain that way long. Balance issues, easier disarmed with arms up and back, etc.
<Reminder: I'm not an expert fighter with such weapons. Hell, I'm not an expert fighter with ANY weapons...just thinking out loud trying to learn something...>
But if I've got a razor sharp sword with a 20" blade with a real pointy tip, from a low position (remember, i just picked it up, or am walking with it at low ready) it seems one could either:
1) come nearly straight in with an upward (45*) jab through the upper abdomen, through the diaphragm up into the rib cage from below and into the heart and/or lungs. There's an aarta in there as well. Incapacitation is not as quick as a head shot, but the stroke with a 3# sword is faster than that with a 5# bat, and with fewer strokes.
or 2) take a slashing swing across face or neck area, then jab.
If he tries to grab it on the way in, or take it away from me using the blade, his fingers & hands are going to pay dearly. (Unlike with a bat.)
Honestly, if it were me, and i had to choose between facing a bat or a sword, i think i'd take the bat. I'm pretty fast on my feet, so something tells me i could move outta the bats path quicker than the blade. (Geez, i hope i never have to make that decision...)
OK, I know someone can erither blugeon my thinking or cut it up with a sword. I know there are lots of knife and or pole fighters in here.
Show me the errors in my thinking.
N~
The good Mr. Lee makes a good point there.
In general, if you can crack that pumpkin and damage the neural tissue inputing sensory information or motor regions routing action potentials to the muscles, or better yet, the brainstem (lower back of skull near intersection with spinal cord), then instant incapacitation. Battle over (at least that part of it).
Problem i still have with a bat is time & room to swing. Not that i have anything against bats. I've had one nearby for years. Part of the arsenal (and during graduate school days when I couldn't afford a gun for a short time, it was THE arsenal. Never again, thanks.)
But if we're talking what would i grab in the middle of the night other than a K9 or 870, "bat" just still isn't my first choice.
I'm actually leaning towards the short sword side right now. I've even been looking at some on line, just for grins of course (
). {{{Darnit people, quit posting such interesting threads! I've got work to do! }}}<WARNING! non expert warrior pontificating ahead; hip boots may be required...>
I'm thinking the guy has just surprized me by jumping from around a corner or i'm trying to get out of bed quickly cause i've just realized he's only 10' away and coming on, so I've got seconds to grab a weapon. (As opposed to lots of time to prepare a strategy.)
To be effective, a bat needs to be raised and lowered with force. I guess a jabbing gut punch would be useful as a first pass, then a head whack, but that incapacitating head blow would require raising above head or to the side over shoulder (as in baseball), and then a return.
Same thing for a hatchet, tomahawk, machete: up first, then down.
For a smaller guy like me (~140#), that's a lot of mass to accelerate, decelerate, then accelerate again towards a pumpkin with enough force to crack it.
Or am i missing something here? Is "ready" for such a weapon in the "up position" rather than "low ready"? Seems like that would be unwieldly and tiring. I wouldn't want to remain that way long. Balance issues, easier disarmed with arms up and back, etc.
<Reminder: I'm not an expert fighter with such weapons. Hell, I'm not an expert fighter with ANY weapons...just thinking out loud trying to learn something...>
But if I've got a razor sharp sword with a 20" blade with a real pointy tip, from a low position (remember, i just picked it up, or am walking with it at low ready) it seems one could either:
1) come nearly straight in with an upward (45*) jab through the upper abdomen, through the diaphragm up into the rib cage from below and into the heart and/or lungs. There's an aarta in there as well. Incapacitation is not as quick as a head shot, but the stroke with a 3# sword is faster than that with a 5# bat, and with fewer strokes.
or 2) take a slashing swing across face or neck area, then jab.
If he tries to grab it on the way in, or take it away from me using the blade, his fingers & hands are going to pay dearly. (Unlike with a bat.)
Honestly, if it were me, and i had to choose between facing a bat or a sword, i think i'd take the bat. I'm pretty fast on my feet, so something tells me i could move outta the bats path quicker than the blade. (Geez, i hope i never have to make that decision...)
OK, I know someone can erither blugeon my thinking or cut it up with a sword. I know there are lots of knife and or pole fighters in here.
Show me the errors in my thinking.
N~
Last edited:
Burt Blade
Member
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2004
- Messages
- 477
Just keep in mind that to survive a hand-to-hand fight with an intruder you are most likely going to have to hit your attacker over and over again, with _whatever_ you use. People are remarkably tough to kill. You are in a fight for your life, and until you have broken enough major bones or bled him out, he is going to be trying his level best to kill _you_.
Your best weapon when confronting a predator in hand-to-hand combat is the unrestricted and savage willingness to tear your opponents life from his body, and the ruthless determination to continue your attack until you have done so. With that, anything in your hand will do the trick, including your bare hands.
Your best weapon when confronting a predator in hand-to-hand combat is the unrestricted and savage willingness to tear your opponents life from his body, and the ruthless determination to continue your attack until you have done so. With that, anything in your hand will do the trick, including your bare hands.
n-8,
The only problem with a kuk in the instance you've described, is that kukuris are designed to chop, not stab...one of the reasons (that, and my faith in Murphy) that I had this custom guard installed.
Hm...looks like I'm going to have to go back to active service, if you want to make an offer.
John
The only problem with a kuk in the instance you've described, is that kukuris are designed to chop, not stab...one of the reasons (that, and my faith in Murphy) that I had this custom guard installed.
Hm...looks like I'm going to have to go back to active service, if you want to make an offer.
John
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