What would you do if restaurant you are dining in is being held up
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No.
I did have a "I like Ike" campaign button though. *sticks tongue out*
We also had a ad for Ked's tennis shoes.
Keds- you can stop on a dime. We kids would run, stop and then look on the ground and "Keds lied, there ain't no dime there".
What we were getting at, was "stopping" and finding a dime where stopped.
Coming up as a kid, and I was out of town at a mom and pop "catfish joint"
Some teenagers from a bigger city came to this small, small, town.
They looked drifty, and were casing the place.
Everyone looked at them, and somebody said "you boys ain't from around these parts, but the cemetery don't care".
Teenagers left.
Local Law caught up with them.
"Are you guys stupid! Did you not see guns in the gun racks? Inside them folks have more firepower than you want to find out about".
Story goes about every year to 18 mos some punk(s) would come in and have an idea the small town would be easy pickin's.
Word would get back to the bigger towns they came from "them folks are not as dumb as they look!"
It was better in the old days, when we did not have stupid restrictions and the playing field was level.
Guns are a deterrent...
Just discussed a very similar situation in my CCW class this past weekend.
About 9/10s of people (yes even those who CC)
are going to do this: say "Holy Sh*t, I can't believe this is happening." and that will stick with them for a minute or so anyway.
After that, most of the robbery will be underway and the bad guys will be in control.
I'm then, after I've tried getting over the shock, HOPEFULLY going to think "okay, what's my adrenaline doing right now?" That's gonna take a few seconds right there.
Now' were a littler further into the robbery.
Okay, is disbelief, adrenalized I'm FINALLY ready to start taking stock of *** is going on. How many of them? Who's armed? Who ELSE in the restaurant is armed and where am I and my family in relation to HIS OR HER ANGLE on the bad guy? Are we a backstop? If so.... OH SH*T AGAIN. "Now I can't believe THIS is happening."
So, now where are we into the course of events?
I'm starting to figure out my position relative to the BGs and to the GGs (if any) who are also carrying and I'm hopefully not drawing enough attention to myself to get them uptight.
Well, this is a lot harder than I ever thought it would be. And I haven't even drawn a gun yet.
What happens next?
About 9/10s of people (yes even those who CC)
are going to do this: say "Holy Sh*t, I can't believe this is happening." and that will stick with them for a minute or so anyway.
After that, most of the robbery will be underway and the bad guys will be in control.
I'm then, after I've tried getting over the shock, HOPEFULLY going to think "okay, what's my adrenaline doing right now?" That's gonna take a few seconds right there.
Now' were a littler further into the robbery.
Okay, is disbelief, adrenalized I'm FINALLY ready to start taking stock of *** is going on. How many of them? Who's armed? Who ELSE in the restaurant is armed and where am I and my family in relation to HIS OR HER ANGLE on the bad guy? Are we a backstop? If so.... OH SH*T AGAIN. "Now I can't believe THIS is happening."
So, now where are we into the course of events?
I'm starting to figure out my position relative to the BGs and to the GGs (if any) who are also carrying and I'm hopefully not drawing enough attention to myself to get them uptight.
Well, this is a lot harder than I ever thought it would be. And I haven't even drawn a gun yet.
What happens next?
rscalzo
Member
Not only do I remember ten cent calls but the old payphones with the two piece handset.
KINGMAX
Member
order to-go meals
Either get delivery or use the drive thru window. All kidding aside: Do not attempt to be a hero, innocent people will get hurt or killed in the process.
Either get delivery or use the drive thru window. All kidding aside: Do not attempt to be a hero, innocent people will get hurt or killed in the process.
Duke of Doubt
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Back about fifteen years ago, Harold's Chicken on Chicago's south side had bulletproof glass windows. You got your chicken through a little hole like at the bank. A friend of mine got robbed outside -- but not for any money; they took his chicken. So carry-out has its own issues ...
si vis pacem
Member
^ That oddly sounds like another great day in downtown Atlanta!
bdickens
Member
It depends.
mcdonl
Member
For all of the order out, drive through, etc.... I don't think I would let the threat of a robbery keep me from eating out with my family. Live life, fear not the journey.
As far as engaging in gun fire in a crowded eatery? To qoute many gun instructors...
"You cannot call the bullet back, and you own where it goes..."
While playing rambo you shoot a little kid, who do you think it going to prison, and feeling regret and remorse? The badguy....?
Leroy
As far as engaging in gun fire in a crowded eatery? To qoute many gun instructors...
"You cannot call the bullet back, and you own where it goes..."
While playing rambo you shoot a little kid, who do you think it going to prison, and feeling regret and remorse? The badguy....?
Leroy
little miss
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I would go into my "crouching tiger hidden dragon" mode
sidheshooter
Member
It indeed depends. That said, If they just want in and out, then I say let them get in and out-the sooner, the better.
If they start manipulating or maneuvering customers, then there is Gavin deBecker’s advice “crime scene #2 is always worse than crime scene #1” and we have a bigger problem.
Bottom line; I am personally not interested in escalating until it’s really time to escalate.
If they start manipulating or maneuvering customers, then there is Gavin deBecker’s advice “crime scene #2 is always worse than crime scene #1” and we have a bigger problem.
Bottom line; I am personally not interested in escalating until it’s really time to escalate.
Deputy25
Member
Myself and two friends, all of us armed, sat through an armed robbery at a McDonalds a few years back. The stick-up men were yelling and waving their guns at the employees, we kept drinking our coffee. My heart was beating faster than it did when I ran my first marathon. The hold up guys made off with a couple hundred bucks, and we were good witnesses when the PD showed. Nobody was hurt. We talked about it at length after, and had all decided that if the bad guys had started shooting customers for some reason, we would have had no choice but to open fire on them.
Hungry Seagull
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Courage sometimes manifest itself in coffee and ho-hum.
Information is power.
Information is power.
sidheshooter
Member
I'd say nicely done, deputy 25.
38SnubFan
Member
Been a while since I've been in these forums, so I'll offer my two cents while I'm browsing around.
Like others have said, I'm in no position to play hero. The little bit of jewelery can be replaced. I can always go earn more money (considering I drive taxi full-time, it's pretty much a ATM on wheels for me! ), The credit/debit/other cards can be replaced. The cell phone is insured (mine's a $700 smartphone - you know damn well I wouldn't have it any other way), and so is the laptop if I have it with me (replaced pretty much on the spot with a copy of the police report).
However, if my wife and/or children are with me and/or the BG is directly threatening harm against me; I'm not playing victim or "good witness". He's gonna have a fight, as at that point I'm engaging the threat and putting a stop to it IMMEDIATELY!
Also, here in PA it's legal for us to defend another if that person would be justified in using the same amount of force to defend themselves. Therefore, if I saw someone else with a gun to their head and I was certain I could make the shot, I'm taking the shot.
BUT - and this being the beauty of Internet Hypotheticals - I haven't been there, nor would I want to be, so I don't really know IN REAL LIFE how everything would pan out.
JMHO. YMMV.
-38SnubFan
Like others have said, I'm in no position to play hero. The little bit of jewelery can be replaced. I can always go earn more money (considering I drive taxi full-time, it's pretty much a ATM on wheels for me!
), The credit/debit/other cards can be replaced. The cell phone is insured (mine's a $700 smartphone - you know damn well I wouldn't have it any other way), and so is the laptop if I have it with me (replaced pretty much on the spot with a copy of the police report).However, if my wife and/or children are with me and/or the BG is directly threatening harm against me; I'm not playing victim or "good witness". He's gonna have a fight, as at that point I'm engaging the threat and putting a stop to it IMMEDIATELY!
Also, here in PA it's legal for us to defend another if that person would be justified in using the same amount of force to defend themselves. Therefore, if I saw someone else with a gun to their head and I was certain I could make the shot, I'm taking the shot.
BUT - and this being the beauty of Internet Hypotheticals - I haven't been there, nor would I want to be, so I don't really know IN REAL LIFE how everything would pan out.
JMHO. YMMV.
-38SnubFan
loneviking
Member
I'm with Deputy 25 and others of like mind---I'm fading out of sight and won't open fire unless there is no other way. There's too many people, including little kids, around that can catch a stray bullet. Unless the BG's start shooting,beating or knifing folks, I'm staying out of it!
CoRoMo
Member
I'll try and defend my family and self when they and/or I am in immediate mortal danger.
If the BGs want to hold up the place, rob it, rob us, rob everybody, and they'll then leave? That would be preferred. I'm not going to conduct a counter-assault against a number of gunmen with my P11 and spare mag.
If the BGs want to hold up the place, rob it, rob us, rob everybody, and they'll then leave? That would be preferred. I'm not going to conduct a counter-assault against a number of gunmen with my P11 and spare mag.
leadcounsel
member
Bad guy(s) come into restaurant with gun(s) drawn pointing and waving them around... that's deadly intent. IS there something MORE they need to do to show their intent to murder???
For those of you that said you'd 'wait until it looks like they are going to kill somebody...' - by then it's too late. If they off one person, they aren't going to pull up a chair and chat with you first before it's your turn. How do you KNOW their intent? You gonna ask them? I say you read into their INTENT based on their ACTIONS of armed robbery. They have demonstrated INTENT to kill - enough for me to defend my life and the lives of others based on commonlaw and nearly every law in the land.
That said, I'm no hero, but at the first chance I had to draw and take well aimed shots without endangering others (backdrop, people in the way, etc.)
I would shoot the sumb***** that appeared to be the leader, most bold, most dangerous or most well armed (eg the aggressor with the 12 gauge instead of the lookout by the door with the .38). In self defense you may not get a second opportunity and you gotta strike while the iron is hot. An you have no idea what sick and perverted people are out there. The time to draw is when their attention is on the cash register, not when it's on you. When it's on you it's too late
What if you have a chance to defend, don't take it, and someone is shot? What if they rob the store, then come right to you and shove a 12 gauge in your face and search and disarm you... ?
Isn't it better, from a criminal justice standpoint, to put the perp commiting and armed robbery in the ground rather than cycle him through the criminal justice system where he will be a $300,000 drain on the system?
Again, I'm no internet hero, but if you carry you darn well be ready to use it rather than flee when you could otherwise help. Afterall, isn't that part of the argument for CCW, to intervene to reduce crime? Sure there's danger in a shootout, but I think there's equal danger in doing nothing.
Imagine if your wife were shot and you learned there was another armed citizen there that did nothing or even fled?
For those of you that said you'd 'wait until it looks like they are going to kill somebody...' - by then it's too late. If they off one person, they aren't going to pull up a chair and chat with you first before it's your turn. How do you KNOW their intent? You gonna ask them? I say you read into their INTENT based on their ACTIONS of armed robbery. They have demonstrated INTENT to kill - enough for me to defend my life and the lives of others based on commonlaw and nearly every law in the land.
That said, I'm no hero, but at the first chance I had to draw and take well aimed shots without endangering others (backdrop, people in the way, etc.)
I would shoot the sumb***** that appeared to be the leader, most bold, most dangerous or most well armed (eg the aggressor with the 12 gauge instead of the lookout by the door with the .38). In self defense you may not get a second opportunity and you gotta strike while the iron is hot. An you have no idea what sick and perverted people are out there. The time to draw is when their attention is on the cash register, not when it's on you. When it's on you it's too late
What if you have a chance to defend, don't take it, and someone is shot? What if they rob the store, then come right to you and shove a 12 gauge in your face and search and disarm you... ?
Isn't it better, from a criminal justice standpoint, to put the perp commiting and armed robbery in the ground rather than cycle him through the criminal justice system where he will be a $300,000 drain on the system?
Again, I'm no internet hero, but if you carry you darn well be ready to use it rather than flee when you could otherwise help. Afterall, isn't that part of the argument for CCW, to intervene to reduce crime? Sure there's danger in a shootout, but I think there's equal danger in doing nothing.
Imagine if your wife were shot and you learned there was another armed citizen there that did nothing or even fled?
X-Rap
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I go along with most of the rest, be a good witness and unless they start shooting I'd leave them alone and let the cops do their job.
Beyond that, the situation will be pretty dynamic and could change quickly.
A couple yrs ago in Denver some people were put into a cooler and executed at a pizza place. If the robbers started to tie up the people then the situation would have to change.
Beyond that, the situation will be pretty dynamic and could change quickly.
A couple yrs ago in Denver some people were put into a cooler and executed at a pizza place. If the robbers started to tie up the people then the situation would have to change.
wyocarp
Member
That is sad. But that is how the Obama nation is to be ran, everyone should live in fear and in hopes that the government sees fit to save you.
And it is far from what would happen if I were involved.
Hungry Seagull
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Then Illinois has problem yah? They need to either go to another State and live free or take it to thier Capitol and change the laws.
6_gunner
Member
It would depend a lot on the situation and the way the robber was behaving.
If he appeared to just want the money, I'd probably sit still and try not to draw attention to myself. No sense escalating the situation and putting people in additional danger.
If he was waving the gun around crazily and acting as if he would shoot someone at any moment, I would look for an opportunity to get a good shot at him.
If he started executing people, I'd draw and take a shot. There's not much I could do to make the situation worse, at that point.
I recall hearing about a bank robber who executed every person in the bank. That story really stuck with me.
If he appeared to just want the money, I'd probably sit still and try not to draw attention to myself. No sense escalating the situation and putting people in additional danger.
If he was waving the gun around crazily and acting as if he would shoot someone at any moment, I would look for an opportunity to get a good shot at him.
If he started executing people, I'd draw and take a shot. There's not much I could do to make the situation worse, at that point.
I recall hearing about a bank robber who executed every person in the bank. That story really stuck with me.
wyocarp
Member
If they have a gun, they have escalated the situation and it is time to respond. Why wait till they pull the trigger? They made a decission, and I've already made mine.
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