What would you do?

What do you do?

  • Draw your weapon and immediately open fire on the BG.

    Votes: 50 16.7%

  • You will draw your weapon and order the BG to surrender.

    Votes: 68 22.7%

  • You retreat to a safe place and dial 911.

    Votes: 181 60.5%
  • Total voters
    299
Status
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Umm, guys got a gun in the clerk's face. I think that defines imminent threat. Wow, some of you could quibble over anything.
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Ahh, you know, what would life be without Monday morning quarter backing? I agree that you'd most likely be legally justified in shooting, but it doesn't hurt to work out other considerations in your mind beforehand. There's too much that isn't included in the OP's scenario to know for sure whether you should throw down immediately and start slingin' lead or take the opportunity to exercise discretion. Do you have a gut feeling that the BG is about to pull the trigger or does it look like he'd need more provocation? Don't know and can't tell. The whole process of deciding to shoot or not might only take a couple seconds, but the consequences can be far more permanent.

Gaming it out a little beforehand is what S&T is all about... ;)
 
+ eleventy-billion for "I'm not a cop" (and their liability coverage doesn't extend to me).

I've not been in the exact situation you've described, but have worked a lot of overnight shifts in convenience stores and gas stations, so have some experience with this from the other side of the counter. If I may suggest, encourage regulars (cab/limo drivers, EMTs, security guards, naughty ladies, etc) to hang out, drink free coffee, and tell you their life stories. Criminals hate crowds. My stations were the only ones on our strips never robbed, for some reason, and I made sure to train those tactics into my replacements. (Atlanta, 1990-93)

Take care.
 
In the first place, I wouldn't walk into a convenience store that was obviously being robbed. That shows a total lack of observing your surroundings and looking where in the hell you're going.

In the second place, I would NEVER draw my weapon in these circumstances, I'm not even involved at this point, I'm just an observer. I call 911 and here in this part of the world I speak immediately to an emergency response deputy sheriff. I simply keep talking and telling the SO what's going on, describe the perp, myself (so they can tell the troops) and stay out of the way while observing. The last thing I want is to be standing around outside of a convenience store holding a pistol.

When the bg runs out the front door waving a gun I simply say into the phone "there he goes".:neener:
 
You are not an officer of the law. You do not have the right to draw your weapon in this case. If the BG shoots the clerk or points his gun at you, then draw and fire. Otherwise hold up and wait for the PD.
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Maybe it depends upon the jurisdiction you are in, but in New Mexico I absolutely would have "the right" to shoot the BG. In NM and many other places you may use deadly force to defend the life of another human being, even one you don't know. In many places you can use deadly force to stop a violent felony as well.

That said, I chose to retreat and call police. Why?

First, who is this clerk to me? I don't know him, its one person being robbed. Hope he gets out of this ok. Why risk making my poor wife a widow for him? If he was a friend, or it was several strangers in danger even, I might change my mind. But I am a happily married man, and so staying alive comes before being a hero.

Second, a CNS shot... Even with a 9mm +p, I am not sure the BG would instantly have his lights turned out. If the gun is to the clerks head and the BG's finger is on the trigger... I am not sure that shooting the BG in the head would be the best thing for the unfortunately clerk. There is an area about the size of a 3x5 card I'd have to hit, without having practiced the exact shot, with enough force and velocity to be sure it would penetrate and smash the brain behind it. Anything else is a bit of a crap shoot. An accurized .223 or .308 would be the normal choices for a police sniper if he was given the order to take this shot. A pocket pistol is not an accurized .308.

Third, I don't KNOW that the BG is going to shoot the clerk. Most robberies don't end with a dead body. They might, but why risk myself and perhaps the clerk too, if its not pretty certain the clerk is about to die? He is certainly in danger of dieing, but there is a very good chance if I leave the BG takes the money and leaves the clerk alive. This might be different if the BG already shot two other people and the clerk was next on the menu, there is no indication that is the case.
 
In the first place, I wouldn't walk into a convenience store that was obviously being robbed. That shows a total lack of observing your surroundings and looking where in the hell you're going.
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Ding ding ding! We have a winner!
 
At the end of FAS-3 there was (I thing the curriculum has changed) an exercise with a scenario similar to the one presented, the purpose of which was to show you how much can go wrong if you get trigger happy. Without going into detail, I would scan 360, back out, and dial 911 as I GFOD. If it IS a robbery I don't want to be within 1/2 mile when the police get there.
 
Reguardless of the right to shoot... If an (on duty) officer walked into this store what do you think he would do? I'm not a cop, but im pretty sure he would not just start blazing away...why? because cops are trained to SAVE lives, according to this exact scenario... the BG has a gun drawn...maybe I'm splitting hairs... but "threat" of violence and actual violence are different.
I'm sure alot of you will disagree but I think drawing and unloading on this guy would prolly get YOU in trouble just like a cop would get in trouble if he handeled the situation like that......
 
With only the information in the OP, I'd have to retreat and call 911 from a safe distance away. I'd note a description of the robber, as well as any cars nearby, and continue to observe until the police arrive.

My reasoning:

Do I KNOW its a robbery. What if the robber is actually an adolesent friend of the clerk showing off his new airsoft gun?

Maybe its the manager, who caught the clerk stealing?

Is the clerk in uniform? Maybe the guy behind the counter is actually the robber, and the clerk came out of the back room to suprise him.

If I was sure it was a robbery, am I positive I can stop it without getting the clerk killed? What if I miss? Or I could startle the robber into shooting.

The clerk is certainly at risk in this situation, if it IS a robbery... but I have an obligation to go home to my family alive, and to not risk my family's financial well-being. Unless the robber is trying to kidnap the clerk, or I have witnessed him shoot or stab others in the store, I'm just calling the police.

I also do not have the training or back up to hold someone at gunpoint... nor am I sure the police wouldn't mistake me for the bad guy if I did.
 
Far too little information provided to even think about shooting.

What if the guy holding the gun is an undercover LEO?

Or perhaps the store owner confronting a clerk who has been robbing him blind?

Or perhaps just another John Doe citizen who interrupted a robbery in progress and the real store clerk is lying behind the counter bleeding to death?
 
I would draw and shoot. If he has the gun aimed at the clerk than you definatly have established use of deadly force is both legal and necessary. Like someone else said you don't want to yell because you could startle the BG and he might accidentally or not shoot someone. All though someone said most BG's use guns as leverage tools and this is true, we shouldn't believe that the bad guy isn't willing to use it.

After i shot the BG i would go over to him and kick his gun away. If he is still alive i wait at a safe distance with my weapon pointed at him. I tell the clerk to call the police and to tell the police while he's on the phone that a legally armed citizen has the wounded suspect at gunpoint.
 
Far too little information provided to even think about shooting.

What if the guy holding the gun is an undercover LEO?

Or perhaps the store owner confronting a clerk who has been robbing him blind?

Or perhaps just another John Doe citizen who interrupted a robbery in progress and the real store clerk is lying behind the counter bleeding to death?
__________________
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+1
 
Why to people always add to the situation given instead of dealing with the facts as presented? Of course you could add details pro or con all you want, but I believe the idea is to show what you think you would do given the circumstances given by the OP.

As far as retreating goes, you know what is in front of you but not what is behind you. From the robberies I have investigated the odds are that the get a way driver is in front of or behind the store.
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Again, why do people add to the story. Whats the difference if you add a guy in the back of the store you did not orginally see or add a get away car.

I would retreat and call 911 if that was possible. I agree that Far too little information provided to even think about shooting.
 
I tend to vote "retreat and dial 911."

Do these clerks wear uniforms? How 'out there' would it be for the bad guy to order the clerk out, and then get in the register....THEN someone (fellow CCWer, off duty cop, maybe even the clerk returned with a gun) comes in and is holding the bad guy at gunpoint...??? Remember here, the one with the gun is the GOOD guy in THIS particular "backstory" on the secnario! :eek:

ETA - honest, I typed this up after reading JUST the 1st post, lest anyone think I'm just parroting OTHER posters. ;)
 
As far as retreating goes, you know what is in front of you but not what is behind you.
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??????? That's where you just came from, unless you're telling me you walk around in a daze all the time? I make it a mental habit to evaluate terrain, positions of cover and concealment, avenues of approach and escape routes in my surroundings all the time.

It may just be me, but I think most of us street cops have this tendency, even though it drives my wife buggy when we're out shopping. I'll walk out and around, keeping my distance rather than skimming by other shoppers placidly grazing the aisles. I'm constantly turning and looking at the people behind me and in the other check out lanes rather than down into the grocery basket while unloading it. I always turn and look back to where I parked the car before I get to the door, if for no other reason than it helps me to remember exactly where I parked. It gets to be instinctive and I see no reason to change it. I also learned to turn and look back at the way I just came as a young man running around in the woods of Northwest Arkansas. You get lost a lot less often that way.

If you don't know what's behind you, it's because you haven't looked. Shame on you for such inattention.
 
Id come in the door in a blaze of fire.. dead men tell no tails.. then I would enduldge on coffee and doughnuts while waiting the the PD to clean up the mess I made.
 
I originally said draw and shoot because i thought you were sure about the robbery taking place. After i read other posts i have to agree with most of them. I wold retreat to a safe place. But if the robber starts shooting, of course i would jump into play.
 
Following the OP I am unnoticed by the gunman and clerk. How this could be true with most cash registers/clerks close to the door is not defined. (maybe I came out of the restroom at the back of the store - but I am adding to the posted story). If I am unnoticed but inside the store i doubt i will get out of the store unnoticed to call 911. Drawing and immediatly shooting seems to leave too many uncertanties about who really is a BG/threat and who isn't.

Draw (and possibly move a little to take advantage of any concealment avalable, and to keep the clerk from being aligned with the presumed threat) and in command voice "drop the gun, do NOT move, ect". Be ready to shoot and continue to shoot if threat turns toward me. Being ready to shoot means safety off, sights on threat, finger in the trigger guard.

I do appreciate the posts with differing decisions and how they reached their decision. Being aware there may be other threats and how to counter them is something to always keep in mind. Knowing their may be a lawyer attached to every bullet should keep us sober in our decisions to use deadly force. (but their is a lawyer attached to all kinds of everyday activities such as the lawyer attached to your car keys every time you drive).

I choose B.
 
Being aware there may be other threats and how to counter them is something to always keep in mind.
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Introduces an interesting variable. The actual article from which I got the idea for the poll only mentioned the facts I gave. No more. Several surmised that such a scenario is impossible. It isn't impossible since it's what happened as reported in the news.
 
My best answer given the scenario in question....

Given the small amount of "knowns" in this scenario, I'd have to admit that I would retreat myself to an area of cover, have my weapon ready should the subject in question change his aim to my direction, then get on the cell phone to 911 and keep as much information going to the dispatcher until police arrive on scene.

My reason for stating I would not open fire or draw down on the alleged BG is simple: I did not see all the events that transpired prior to the gun being drawn. Therefore, at this point, since no shots are being fired as of yet, I'm better off to be a good witness.

However, should shots be fired, then I would most likely take an offense and neutralize the threat to my own life and the lives of other innocent bystanders.

Again, this is just an opinion based on a lot of "what if's" and "what could happen." The truth is, I'll never know unless I'm actually there.

Stay Safe,
38SnubFan
 
Unless the BG starts to shoot, I would retreat and call 911. Remember, every shot you fire, you are legally responsible for.

On the other hand, If the BG gets violent, I would use my training from Tom Givens to put down the threat.
 
I wish I could say that I would first call 911. Unfortunately, much of the time armed robbers will shoot the clerk just to minimize the chance of retaliation. Depending on the situation, I would either sight the robber up and then give verbal warning. Or if the situation was in the crapper, I would just put one in their head.

Honestly, if I could avoid shooting, I would. It is not worth it if you think the robber will just take the money and run.
 
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