What would you pick for a "sniper" rifle?

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jrfoxx

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So,lets say you wanted a "sniper" rifle.Taking into consideration ammo cost and availabilty, and rifle cost and terminal ballistics and flat trajectory, what specific gun, in what caliber would you say is the best bang for the buck and all around good gun and caliber for the task?.Requirements are: Reliabilty, ammo cost, rifle cost, gun durability, termial ballistics, accuracy, and flat shooting (to minimize holdover as much as possible).Not talking about a gun for our current military, but for an average person in the event such a weapon were ever needed.What scope would you choose also? Requiements are that the scope be under $300, the rifle under $1000, and ammo must be under 50 cents per round max.(handloading is an option, but available factory ammo is HIGHLY preferred.) This would be a dedicated "sniper" rifle, so no need for it to be able to fill any other roles a all.What say you?

p.s.-by "sniper", I'm referring to use on human targets, not material or animals,and distances would be 600yds max (but if your choice can exceed that, al the better)

**PLEASE see post #14 for further explanation.**
 
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Your restriction on ammo cost pretty much limits you to 223 Remington.

The next choice is bolt action or semi-auto. There are lots of accurate bolt actions available today from Savage 12 BVSS, Remington 700 VSF or VLS, CZ 527, and Howa 1500 tactical that meet your pricing. Accurate semi-autos pretty much limits you to the AR-15 platform (flat top with free float handguard).

The highest quality scope for $300 is a 10x Super Sniper from SWFA.com
You can find variable scopes for the same money, but they won't have the durability of the SS.
 
may be better off spending $300 on the rifle and $1000 on the scope.
 
Good .308 ammo can be had from US companies for under $0.50/round even now, from businesses such as Georgia Arms. (Not sure how much longer it'll hold at that price, though.)

Savage, Tikka, CZ, and possibly some Remington bolt-action rifles should meet your price criteria handily.
 
"p.s.-by "sniper", I'm referring to use on human targets, not material or animals,and distances would be 600yds max (but if yor chice canexceed that, al the better)" YOUR QUOTE

Your post may be the poster child for are less enlightened anti-gun crowd.

For my TARGET or VARMINT rifle, at the range you specify, I would select a good middle caliber, probably .264 or 7mm in any one of a dozen configurations, and top it with the most expensive high end brand name (probably Leupold) scope that I could afford.

Mine is a SAKO 6.5 topped with a Burris 8X32X44.
 
Basic Rifle: Savage 10fp, .308 Accu Trigger sporter stock in synthetic and heavy barrel.

http://www.savagearms.com/10fp.htm


Scope: Leupold 3x-9x Variable
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/12837-13877-1511.html

Other opinions

From madogre.com
"Tactical .308 on the cheap. Lots of emails regarding the cheapest off the shelf tactical set up that will do the job. I've talked about this before, but I will again one last time and this time I will be specific. Remington makes something that will do not just nicely, but probably better than several other entry level tactical guns. The SPS Varminter in .308 gives you everything a tactical shooter will need. It even has the double sling mounts so you can sling on one and bipod the other. It has an 11 degree grown, bull barrel, a nice stock that features a rather cool flare on the forend that works well with bipods and looks slick. We are selling them for only $539.99 and you would have to spend a great deal more to get better. And it's a Remington so there are about 200 million things you can do with it down the road to upgrade it. Scope this up with a Mil-Dot from Millet, a huge coffee can sized objective, glass that is very bright for the money... your about 300 for the scope. Done. Want a cheaper scope, the Nikon BDC scopes would serve the purpose easily and they are easier to use than mil dots. You can get a BDC for as low as 159... That's all you need guys. Sure the Marines have 23000 sniper rifles, but you don't need that to shoot well. The SPS takes to Krylon spray can camo jobs better than anything else. I've seen the SPS guns spray painted and the paint sticks like it was thermally cured."

Geoff
Who has a Remington 700 BDL with a 4x Leupold which has lasted through 20 years.
 
I saw a program on the idiot-box this summer regarding LEO snipping equipment. The point of the program was that in the past, focus was on bolt-action rifles with fixed-power scopes 10X or higher.

The concern was that there has been an increase in close-in engagements, i.e. 50 yards or less. So, the trend, according to these experts was to lower-power, variable scopes, and (I found it interesting) to autoloading rifles because at that range accuracy was not so great an issue as compared to 300 yards.

I would vote for the DMPS (or equivalent) .308 with an ACOG. That is what I have but I certainly don't ever see me being hired as a police snipper. :neener: I do see owning this rifle as simply being a fun rifle to own, and one that when loaded with a 5-round magazine, can be used for deer hunting. So, yes, I do see myself as being a good whitetail deer snipper. :cool:

JMHO,

Doc2005

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Whatever was issued to me. I wouldn't be shooting at human targets if I weren't a trained sniper working for uncle Sam, frankly.

I have a 3/4 MOA Remington M722 sporting rifle. Would I need more if uncle Sam came to me and asked me, a 55 year old non-verteran, to go to Iraq to shoot bad guys? I mean, I ain't too worried about that happening, ya know.

There are plenty of sub MOA bolt action rifles out there to choose from. Pick one you like and put a quality scope on it. Then, whey you're shooting a deer, you can make pretend you're picking off Osama or something.
 
$150- Swiss K-31
$80 Accumount or St Marie scope rail
$25 Burris steel rings
$200-220 Low end Nikon/Leupold 3-9x40 scope


total cost: ~$475

Spend the last $800 or so on ammo and practice a lot with it.

Spending $1300 on a rifle doesn't make you a sniper or a rifleman.
 
Well, I prefer the commercial rifle approach to the milsurp just due to the fact that I'm more likely to get that 1MOA level of accuracy and a gun more suited for hunting, which is what I do with 'em.

This was 15 or 20 years ago.

$200 new Savage 110 in 7mm Remington Magnum
$150 sell out on a new Weatherby Supreme 3x9x44 rifle scope
$40 IIRC, on millett rings, the gun has Weaver bases welded to the receiver, came that way.

Total about 400 bucks and the gun is 1 MOA with a LONG range capability. I've taken one mule deer about 350 with it across a New Mexico canyon. I just held high on his shoulder and hit just below my aim point. It's a flat shooting gun.

Or, my .308

Remington M7 stainless Free, won a BDL 25-06 at a gun show door prize that cost me nothing and traded that even up for the M7

65 bucks for millet rings and mount

$200 for Weaver KV 3x9x40

Total $265 for a stainless 1 MOA .308 carbine. :D Hard to beat that one.
 
For those concerned about the nature of the question, the point of the exercise was to see what rifle people would choose, if the states were to bring back the true well-regulated militia, and you were told afer your first muster/drill that you were going to be a sniper, so go buy yourself a rifle for that.Nothing nefarious was intended, just waned to see what production target/hunting rifle the average person would chose, given this task, and illiminating custom, hand-made, or $12,000 rifles (whch we'd all love to have, but most of us couldn't afford, and couldnt wait to have built, as the militia expected o see the rifle at next weeks muster.Also, human targets were mentioned to eliminate things like .17hmr, 22 hornet etc,which can be great for target and varmint purposes, but not so much for anything larger and living, and strictly bench-rest type guns.I was trying to limit it to commonly available production guns and scopes that youcould find just by going to a local gun store.Possibly the question could have been explained better, it didn't realy dawn on me that it might look/sound kinda bad.Sorry.As for the comments about the question giving fuel to the anti-gunners, they already think your benchrest, varmint, and deer rifles are sniper rifles that fire armour piercing ammo, and that we're all blood-thirsty rambo wanna be rednecks,so I'm not too worried that I'm giving them any ideas.
 
The PSL at around $800 for new rifle plus 4x scope, if you're willing to consider more of a designated marksman semi-auto than sniper bolt action.

Semi-auto sniper in 7.62x54R designed for use out to 600m. Mine shoots about 2-3 MOA with surplus ammo.

Basic 7.62x54R surplus ammo cost was $0.10 as recently as a year ago, but now seems to be about $0.20 and is accurate @ 600m, but you will get some (10%) fliers. I've heard it's range is probably 800m, but so far, I haven't been successful at that range, but it's probably more me and/or ammo than the rifle. There is a special sniper round available for the original but quite different Russian version of this rifle (SVD - Dragunov), but I haven't tried it.

New factory ammo can be had for about $0.50 last I checked.
 
Top of the line Savage, Perferably used. Add quality scope and mounts. You'll be happy and forget the Bling-Bling......Essex
 
Quote:
p.s.-by "sniper", I'm referring to use on human targets, not material or animals,and distances would be 600yds max (but if yor chice canexceed that, al the better)

Personally, I'm not gonna touch this one.
Click to expand...

+1, unless you're a gov. shooter or associated with a police department or other law enforcement agency.
 
I'll admit, I winced a little when I saw that you wanted a "sniper" rifle. Any rifle can be used as a sniper rifle. According to the dictionary all you have to be is concealed at a distance while shooting at an individual and you are sniping. Like some here have said, any good target rifle can be used for sniping in the hands of a trained individual.

I own several target rifles including a Remington 700 VS in 223, a DPMS LR308, 03A3's, and a Garand. Out of all of them, if I had to perform the role of a sniper I would choose the LR308 because of the accuracy of the 308 at long ranges. If I were starting from scratch and was on a limited budget then I would go the route Jeff Timm posted from madogre.com.

PS: I hope I never have to use any of my rifles in a sniper role.
 
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There's no modern military sniper system that sells for under $1000, nor has ammo that cheap, so in terms of capability you can't really call it a sniper rifle.

If you're still thinking in terms of minimizing hold-over, you're not thinking right about long-range shooting.

There are many, many threads about building very economical rifles with 1 MOA capability out to 600-1000 yards.
 
I'll admit, I winced a little when I saw that you wanted a "sniper" rifle.
Click to expand...
I have no intenton or interest in buying anything of the sort, the question was just for fun to see what people would pick from commonly available guns, were they to be called by their state's milita (see post #14) for that role.

PS: I hope I never have to use any of my rifles in a sniper role.
Click to expand...
+10,000. I'm sure we all feel that way.Again, this was just for curiosity's sake, in a totally fictional role, as I HIGHLY doubt the citizen milltia will be makeing a comeback anytime soon.
 
I have owned and shot the majority of the major brand rifles, and honestly most any of them in .223, .308 or 30-06 would meet your needs with my personal preference being toward the .308 or 30-06 for the larger bullet weight and higher downrange energy. (I would go with one of those standard cals for your purposes because of ammo availability)

Now my preferences have always been for Ruger (just like them, they fit me and the look and feel is just right) but honestly Win, Remmy, Weatherby, Tikka, Howa, Savage, or Mossberg can all get it done. Decent optics are important, but really until you get into very LONG distances (600+) a solid 10X fixed scope from any of the major Mfgs. will work. I believe that a nice rig can be put together for between $600 and $800 that would be a very effective combo, and that spending more money on ammo to learn to shoot it well, would do you a greater service than spending more money on the gun/opics will.

Years ago I started taking hunting very seriously. My buddies and I would shoot EVERY Saturday plus one or two evenings a week when we could get together. We burned a brick or two of .22 and at least a box or two of Centerfire rifle ammo every Sat. Did this when the weather was good for the better part of 2 years. We even got to playing games, like we would run around the house come back pick up our rifle and shoot at the target, or drop and do 20 pushups then pick up our rifle and fire at the target. (Was normally shooting at between 100 and 200 yards) we varied the target distance, size, shape, color etc.) We also usually put a dollar a shot in the pot, so we took it serious enough. When I quit hunting I was often able to shoot 2 to 2 1/2 in 3 shot groups at between 100 and 200 yards off hand. Our equipment was pretty OK, but not great (I was shooting a Ruger M77, in .270, with a Tasco 3x9x40 world class scope), however it was our practice that made us good shots. Well I quit hunting back in 1996 and so I have NOT shot like that in many years. So when I shoot now, you can see it. I need a real good rest to shoot accurately I intellectually know how to shoot well, and I can still do ok, but time, practice, and being familiar with your weapon goes farther towards making you a rifleman than the rifle itself.
 
should be able to do what you want with any off the shelf 30.06, such as a Garand, or if you want new, you could hardly do better than a Howa, and build it up. Since the Howa uses expensive technique for a budget built rifle.
next choice would be in this order, according to ammo, 223, 308, 6.5 swede, 260 remmy, 270. this would be the same order if you handloaded.
As for scopes, the Super sniper seires will fit your bill perfectly.
 
Peronally I'd recommend some quality Firearms safety Classes and a decent .22 bot action with a low end scope on it.

That way you won't be as likely to make stupid mistakes and not be tempted to try for a 600 shot at a human as a civilian.

Once you can consistantly hold two inches at 100 yards or meters and actually make hits on a three by four up right rectangle consitantly and 5 inches at 200 meters and hit a target not more than than than a six by eight long side up consistantly would I spend a dime on a center fire and scope and .50 or more per round ammo.

Learn to dope the wind initally with a cheap to shoot and own rimfire BEFORE laying out big bucks for something "better."

For me somthing better would be either the afor mentioned Remington or Savage varmit rifles in .308 and a Shephard scope with appropriate auto ranging and hold over reticle.....yes the scope is more expensive than the rifle. Barring the Shephard a cheaper scope like the BDC type mentione early and use the left over money to get a laser rangefinder good to that range on field targets (not just hightly reflective stuff).

But more improtant than the rifle is YOUR ability to use a rifle. If you can not quickly detirmine the range, make adjustemts (either mechanically through the scope knobs or hold over with or without dots or whatever) and dope the wind and understand what you need to do to account fr the wind at that range with that given rifle cartridge combination, then the most expensive rifle, ammo, and scope combination in the world mean absolutely diddly.

Rifle shooting is like any other martial art, the skill of the operator out weighs the neatness of the tool. ( I seem to recall a little sword fight pitting wooden Boken agains the finest blades of Japan where in the wood won) I always thought the Cooper-ism "Owning a rifle no more makes you a Rifleman than owning a Guitar makes you Chet Atkins" says everything I just tried to.

Good luck on your "upper case" Survivalist novel.

-Bob Hollingsworth
 
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