What's the future of .40 S&W?
- Thread starter TruthTellers
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Busta Prima
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- Mar 16, 2006
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Yay, another .40 bash thread!
Watching what the FBI is doing reminds me of a really old commercial for Savrin coffee. The villagers would watch in terrified anticipation while one jackass, pulling another jackass on a leash, would sip their precious coffee. Once he smiled, they would rejoice and say El Exigente approves! (or maybe there was no second jackass? Am I mixing Juan Valdez with El Exigente?)
Here is a scenario to play in your head: What if way back when the .45 ACP came along it was .40 S&W instead and there was no .45 ACP. If someone tried to introduce .45 now, would it catch on? A heavier but much slower bullet with slightly more (if any) energy than the .40 cal? Just food for thought.
I don't have too many dogs in this race. I have and like most popular calibers. The way people talk about 9mm these days makes me wonder why we have ANY other pistol calibers. I would take a Glock 22 over a 17 any day (I have both). I'd gladly give up those two rounds for the larger bullet. However, if I had to choose between say a Sig P226 or a CZ 75, I would take either in 9mm because there you get 16 to 18 rounds vs 10 to 12 (why is that?).
Watching what the FBI is doing reminds me of a really old commercial for Savrin coffee. The villagers would watch in terrified anticipation while one jackass, pulling another jackass on a leash, would sip their precious coffee. Once he smiled, they would rejoice and say El Exigente approves! (or maybe there was no second jackass? Am I mixing Juan Valdez with El Exigente?)
Here is a scenario to play in your head: What if way back when the .45 ACP came along it was .40 S&W instead and there was no .45 ACP. If someone tried to introduce .45 now, would it catch on? A heavier but much slower bullet with slightly more (if any) energy than the .40 cal? Just food for thought.
I don't have too many dogs in this race. I have and like most popular calibers. The way people talk about 9mm these days makes me wonder why we have ANY other pistol calibers. I would take a Glock 22 over a 17 any day (I have both). I'd gladly give up those two rounds for the larger bullet. However, if I had to choose between say a Sig P226 or a CZ 75, I would take either in 9mm because there you get 16 to 18 rounds vs 10 to 12 (why is that?).
40 will be around-but may end up as second place
The .40 S&W is a great round with ONE real problem, RECOIL.
I have carried one for the last 17 years and as I get older, I would really like to go back to the 9m.m.
I can see my qualification scores are slowly going down as I age. I used to shoot in the high 140's out of a possible 150. Now I can just average about 140. Maybe it is the ammo, but I doubt it. I shoot my 9.m.m, .38 Special and .357 magnum (much heavier gun) just as well at the range.
My agency has been issuing it for almost 20 years and recoil and accelerated wear on the guns has been the main problem.
We have been switching to weaker and weaker rounds, without explanation for the last 10 years. We started out with the 155 grain jhp at 1200 fps and it hit really hard. I never heard of any complaints about it failing in the field.
Then, when we replaced our full size, BERETTA 96D Brigadiers (a 96 with a beefed up slide) with a smaller gun, the H&K P2000, we went to a lighter bullet.
Over the years, the main complaints about the BERETTA were the size (it is big and heavy) and how fast it wore out. We had worn out our model 96D's in about 10 years.
This followed our dropping the 9m.m. GLOCK 17, which legacy officer were allowed to carry. We still had constant complaints from officers about the H&K being harder to shoot and less accurate. In my experience, the H&K is quite accurate, but the recoil is an issue that lowers qualification scores.
Now, we are buying 180 grain "WHITE BOX" jhp ammo and recoil is softer. I just hope we do not go to the 165 grain FBI MEDIUM load (same velocity as the 180 with a lighter bullet). I would rather have my GLOCK 19 back, loaded with +P+ ammo!
As I get older, some of that 9m.m. standard pressure ammo is looking better all the time!
I predict that the .40 will be around for a while. I think the FBI lost some credibility with the whole 10m.m./.40 caliber debacle and now going back to a 9m.m.
Some departments will want to stay with the more powerful round and the .40 S&W, in the hotter loads, is a step above the 9m.m. or .45ACP in my opinion. You get high velocity (in the 155 and 165 grain full power loads) and a heavier bullet. The price is recoil which effects control and practical accuracy or going to a full size gun.
The only other choice is the 10m.m. or .357 magnum, neither likely to be adopted by any large agency.
Just my two cents worth.
Jim
The .40 S&W is a great round with ONE real problem, RECOIL.
I have carried one for the last 17 years and as I get older, I would really like to go back to the 9m.m.
I can see my qualification scores are slowly going down as I age. I used to shoot in the high 140's out of a possible 150. Now I can just average about 140. Maybe it is the ammo, but I doubt it. I shoot my 9.m.m, .38 Special and .357 magnum (much heavier gun) just as well at the range.
My agency has been issuing it for almost 20 years and recoil and accelerated wear on the guns has been the main problem.
We have been switching to weaker and weaker rounds, without explanation for the last 10 years. We started out with the 155 grain jhp at 1200 fps and it hit really hard. I never heard of any complaints about it failing in the field.
Then, when we replaced our full size, BERETTA 96D Brigadiers (a 96 with a beefed up slide) with a smaller gun, the H&K P2000, we went to a lighter bullet.
Over the years, the main complaints about the BERETTA were the size (it is big and heavy) and how fast it wore out. We had worn out our model 96D's in about 10 years.
This followed our dropping the 9m.m. GLOCK 17, which legacy officer were allowed to carry. We still had constant complaints from officers about the H&K being harder to shoot and less accurate. In my experience, the H&K is quite accurate, but the recoil is an issue that lowers qualification scores.
Now, we are buying 180 grain "WHITE BOX" jhp ammo and recoil is softer. I just hope we do not go to the 165 grain FBI MEDIUM load (same velocity as the 180 with a lighter bullet). I would rather have my GLOCK 19 back, loaded with +P+ ammo!
As I get older, some of that 9m.m. standard pressure ammo is looking better all the time!
I predict that the .40 will be around for a while. I think the FBI lost some credibility with the whole 10m.m./.40 caliber debacle and now going back to a 9m.m.
Some departments will want to stay with the more powerful round and the .40 S&W, in the hotter loads, is a step above the 9m.m. or .45ACP in my opinion. You get high velocity (in the 155 and 165 grain full power loads) and a heavier bullet. The price is recoil which effects control and practical accuracy or going to a full size gun.
The only other choice is the 10m.m. or .357 magnum, neither likely to be adopted by any large agency.
Just my two cents worth.
Jim
helitack32f1
Member
I haven't read everything in this thread but this has to be one of the most well reasoned statements on this whole thing!
I love .40 and see no reason to change that. I honestly do not feel any more pain when shooting .40 or less pain when I shoot my 9mm. I guess that puts me in the non-recoil sensitive category. I shoot both equally poorly.
IMO, I guess an argument could be made that when we are all forced to use 10 rnd magazines again (because that is apparently the politically acceptable number of times you should be able to shoot someone, definitely more humane than 11 times) 10 rounds of .40 is better than 10 rnds of 9mm and conversely, when we are all allowed to use regular capacity "high capacity" magazines, having 18 rnds of 9mm will be better than 15 rnds of .40.
In reality though, having a gun, with one round or more and being able to hit your target under stress is winning most of the battle already, regardless of whether or not it is a .25 or a .500.
As for where .40 S&W will go in the future, I see little change ahead, other than the LEO's dropping it in droves. New pistols are still being introduced in .40 which I do not believe would be happening if a future was not seen for the caliber. Also, if we do go back to politically correct 10 rnd magazines, you will see a resurgence in .40's popularity.
Now, if I could just get a subcompact with 18 rnds of .40 S&W, I'd be happy!
TanklessPro
Member
I will never get rid of my 40's. Nor my 9mm,45ACP or my 45 GAP's. I'm not sure of your area, but in mine things were interesting in the first part of 2013. I remember way back then when the forums were burning up with the titles like, " I can't find ammo", "dam those hoarders", "$2000 S&W Sporter" and "your evil if you sold ammo for a profit!!!!".
How quickly do we forget.....
Me not so much. Around these parts, almost all of the 22 was gone, 9mm and 45ACP were scarce. While the madness did not slow any of my shooting down, see my tag line below for reason, 40SW and 45 GAP were readily available at reasonable prices. I continued to buy if I saw a deal and didn't buy if I didn't.
Call me an idiot for having 40SW and 45 GAP, I don't care. Sell your 40s and run to the 9. At least when the madness returns, and it will, I will have a gun and ammo.
Sorry I'll take my 40SW or 45 GAP loaded over and empty 9mm any day.....
YMMV....
How quickly do we forget.....
Me not so much. Around these parts, almost all of the 22 was gone, 9mm and 45ACP were scarce. While the madness did not slow any of my shooting down, see my tag line below for reason, 40SW and 45 GAP were readily available at reasonable prices. I continued to buy if I saw a deal and didn't buy if I didn't.
Call me an idiot for having 40SW and 45 GAP, I don't care. Sell your 40s and run to the 9. At least when the madness returns, and it will, I will have a gun and ammo.
Sorry I'll take my 40SW or 45 GAP loaded over and empty 9mm any day.....
YMMV....
Desertrat357
Member
So I am going to weigh in on this thread. I don't really have a lot of semi autos. Three to be exact. Two of them are 9mm, and one 45 ACP. I am actually wanting to move to the 40 S&W. Why? Because I think it offers some things the 9mm can't. I'll admit it, I fell into the whole ballistics advancements, and "good enough" mindset. However, I am changing my line of thinking. I want the larger diameter bullet of the 40 along with the very decent velocity moving that heavier bullet.
Yes there is more recoil with the 40 S&W compared to the 9mm. But I am not a recoil sensitive person, for the most part. And no, I am not saying the 40 is going to stop a bad guy any faster than a 9mm, but, god forbid, if the chips are ever on the table, I will feel better with the larger caliber.
Yes there is more recoil with the 40 S&W compared to the 9mm. But I am not a recoil sensitive person, for the most part. And no, I am not saying the 40 is going to stop a bad guy any faster than a 9mm, but, god forbid, if the chips are ever on the table, I will feel better with the larger caliber.
Zerodefect
member
Yeah, I wanted more power than 9mm, and that's exactly what I got.
Also, I sometimes drag my thumbs on the slide on accident. The cycling power and stiffer springs in .40 and.45's deal with that better. It's rare that I see someone having a thumb dragging problem with anything other than a 9mm or .380.
Also, I sometimes drag my thumbs on the slide on accident. The cycling power and stiffer springs in .40 and.45's deal with that better. It's rare that I see someone having a thumb dragging problem with anything other than a 9mm or .380.
SlicLee
Member
40 is king
The 40 is the best all around cartridge in the world.
If your a reloader you know it!
If your a shooter you know it. Lee
The 40 is the best all around cartridge in the world.
If your a reloader you know it!
If your a shooter you know it. Lee
Caliber wars. I like to read the varied opinions. I have a very simple philosophy that came from shooting junk - yes literally junkyard stuff. The .380 is very limited although I do carry it at times; the 9MM is a good round but I don't own one (I went from 380 to 38 cal to 45 cal); the 45 ACP is great for big holes and stopping bad things that want to harm you; the 40 S&W puts a good size hole in junk and provides amble stopping power and penetration. I can manage the 40 just fine in stressful situations. The 10MM is great but I really can't manage the recoil on good follow up shots. I have settled on the 40 as my selected compromise to recoil, adequate power, and penetration. Yes, my opinion is very situational based - just shoot stuff in the junk yard as see what works for you.
Zeke/PA
Member
I was told that S&W developed this cartridge so that "lady" FBI agents would not have to deal with .45 Auto recoil issues.
So be it!
I own a Beretta Model 96 in 40 Smith that I truly love.
Adjustable sights, easy to reload for and VERY accurate.
So be it!
I own a Beretta Model 96 in 40 Smith that I truly love.
Adjustable sights, easy to reload for and VERY accurate.
ljnowell
Member
stchman
Member
The energy of 9mm vs 40S&W isn't that great in comparison.
Federal JHP ammo.
9mm 115gr JHP 1180fps - 356 ft-lbs
40S&W 180gr JHP 1000fps - 400 ft-lbs
Obviously each ammo can be loaded to produce more energy.
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