What's the problem with "printing"?

[HoosierQ]

I mean I get the obvious...scaring people that are squimish about guns. But I see a lot of talk about avoiding "printing". In fact, it sounds like preventing it is very high on every one's list and people seem to go to great pains to avoid it.

So other than the obvious...why such great concern? Do some concealed carry laws consider a "printed" firearm not concealed and thus carried illegally? Are we not wanting to tip our hand? Are we not wishing to get robbed of the firearm?

I have a CC permit, or what goes for one in Indiana. I don't think we here in the Hoosier state are compeled to conceal. We are compelled to have a license to carry a handgun, any handgun, be it on our person or in our vehicle.

So, what are the issues with printing a concealed gun from beneath a garment?

 

[kingpin008]

For one, it can tip people off to the fact that you're carrying a gun. Most people wouldn't necessarily notice or care, but there are some mighty observant crooks out there, who will take note of that fact, and possibly sneak attack you when they have the chance, rather than face your gun. Then, they may take your gun.

Also, it is against the law in some places to not have your weapon concealed. Some places will throw you in jail (or at least cite you) for not having your weapon fully concealed.

And I guess in general, printing is best avoided because if you're carrying concealed, it should stay concealed.

 

[Mad Magyar]

Do some concealed carry laws consider a "printed" firearm not concealed and thus carried illegally? Are we not wanting to tip our hand? Are we not wishing to get robbed of the firearm?

Yes....For one thing, I don't want to advertise that I'm carrying a piece. Concealed means that...I do go to great lengths, and it's a bitch, especially in the hot Southwest where your attire shrinks...

 

[Dirtypacman]

Here in MA if you printed and were pointed out you will be rushed by a 1/2 dozen cops and thrown to the ground. You could be faced with losing your right to carry as they would now consider you an unfit person.

Not something I want to risk happening.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Concealed carry is concealed...That means you don't tell and you don't show...

 

[Treo]

To me it looks sloppy if you print. If you're going to OBVIOUSLY print, what's the point in "concealing" it in the firstplace ?

 

[ScottyT]

I am only concerned about printing at work. I usually OC outside of work, but even when I am CC (outside of work) I am not real concerned about it...

 

[sqlbullet]

You are correct. The last I checked Indiana allowed permit holders to carry open or concealed. There are some proponents of open carry. See opencarry.org

I see three issues with open carry and printing.

First and most common, public reaction. John Q is afraid of guns, and people who have them. Advertising that you have one invites them to notify an authority, who will then waste your time invesitgating.

Which brings us to the second issue. Just because you have the legal right doesn't mean the police office who saw the print understands that. Do you really wanna spend an hour or two cuffed in a car while the local jurisdiction figures out the law?

And finally, and most critically I would say, your status in the eyes of an offender. If involved in a personal defense situation, printing takes away your advantage of suprise. The bad guy may see the print and post-pone their mayhem, yes. Or they may see the print, and decide to shoot you first, from behind, as a show of force. Or, if they are already committed to the course of action when they see your print, they may escalate a situation that otherwise might have de-escalated.

Truly concealed carry keeps you anonymous. That is a big advantage if you are ever in a life threatening situation.

Open carry is a political statement. It is a defining act of non-violence in the right to keep and bear arms. It can be used to create dialog, and raise public awareness.

Printing defeats the purpose of both.

 

[JesseL]

I'm almost never worried about printing.

Much like ScottyT, I conceal at work but most everyone here knows I have a permit and carry. Outside of work I often open carry.

For me it's much ado about nothing. Guns aren't as stigmatized here as in some places, open carry is legal, and trying to make a decent sized gun completely disappear is more trouble to me than it's worth.

The primary reason I bother with a CWP is to avoid grey areas regarding having an untucked shirt covering my gun, or having a gun concealed in the car. Sidestepping the NICS call for a new gun is nice too.

 

[HoosierQ]

Well that makes sense. I really do try like heck to avoid printing but since it is not specifically illegal here in Indiana, my awareness of the facts surrounding the issue was obviously rather poor.

It does amaze me that some states are like that. I guess sometime is pays to be a Hoosier (except when I want a beach, or a mountain, or a body of water, or a hill, or decent weather, or a low pollen count). Buy hey, if you want good gun laws, pretty good gun shops, and lots of places to buy a tractor, the Hoosier state is the place to be.

 

[springmom]

In my state (Texas) it is very bad juju to print. It will get you a charge of brandishing, and you can lose your carry rights. HOWEVER...there's printing, and then there's printing. If it is crystal clear that the gun under my shirt is a gun, and if a cop sees it, then I'm at risk. I will say, though, that while I have felt uneasy about whether I was printing before, nobody has ever noticed. People really don't look at your waistline anyway, and if they notice "something", they'll chalk it up to a cell phone rather than a 1911. They're not expecting to see someone carrying, therefore, they don't.

Springmom

 

[luckylogger6]

In CA we have a law on the book for Brandishing a firearm and is a misdemeanor offence. Upon first glance it does not appear that printing would be brandishing but my CCW instructor told me that if the person can tell you have a gun you have “exhibited” your firearm. Then if they feel threatened by the sight of you carrying a gun you have committed brandishing, and if convicted you will most likely loose you CCW.

417. (a) (2) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or
unloaded, in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, or who in any
manner, unlawfully uses a firearm in any fight or quarrel.

 

[Mainsail]

...but there are some mighty observant crooks out there, who will take note of that fact, and possibly sneak attack you when they have the chance...

 

[BBroadside]

Very good points in this thread. I swear I wouldn't know half as much as I do about CCW without this forum.

Now the only thing I'm wondering is, what stuff do I carry in my pockets that prints like a gun but isn't a gun? Time to be paranoid....

 

[unspellable]

printing

I was detained by an LEO for 40 minutes while he checked every thing out from every which way. Sort of defeats the point of the permit which is supposed to indicate you've already been checked out. Don't need the delay, (At least I was in no hurry on this occaion.) don't need word getting back to the sheriff since we have discretionary issue.

 

[makarovnik]

No real problem with printing unless you don't want anyone to know you're carrying. Simple.

 

[pyle]

Do some concealed carry laws consider a "printed" firearm not concealed and thus carried illegally?

Well, back when I took my CCW class (OKlahoma - about 7 years ago) the instructor (a local LEO) told us if we were "printing" - we weren't carrying concealed. I don't believe printing is addressed in the Oklahoma SDA but I think there is a similar reference - I'll need to look it up....

 

[JesseL]

Well, back when I took my CCW class (OKlahoma - about 7 years ago) the instructor (a local LEO) told us if we were "printing" - we weren't carrying concealed.

Conversely; here in AZ letting your gun show only by printing isn't enough to qualify as open carry (and is thus concealed), and requires a permit.

 

[mr.72]

I just recently finished my CHL course in TX... so this is fresh on my mind. In TX, they don't define "printing"... you are committing an offense if you intentionally fail to conceal your handgun, according to the letter of the law. "Concealed" means that it can be seen by a normal person during normal observation.

Generally I understand this is interpreted as, if the outline of the gun can be seen so that it is clearly identified as a gun, then you are failing to conceal. But if the butt of the gun bulges a bit when you bend and all you see is some pokey-outey kind of shape, then that's not "failing to conceal". IMHO virtually all normal holsters you'd use for CCW, especially IWB, make it impossible to "fail to conceal" as long as you have some kind of cover garment, but of course, I am not your lawyer

 

[theotherwaldo]

When in doubt, read and follow your state and local laws.

When in doubt about the laws, interpret them in the most negative and paranoid way possible... 'cause odds are, that's the way that those laws will be used against you in a courtroom.

 

[WinchesterAA]

I like 12 o'clock carry with a 1911. Sitting is comfy, bending is comfy, tight shirt or loose, nothing sticks out anywhere at any time. Access is quick, easy and discrete.

 

[DrLaw]

Ahem...

My 'concealed carry' always prints and the women all point and stare with smiles on their faces.



Man, I am having fun here tonight.

I live in Illinois, which will probably be the only state after the other 49 allow it to not have concealed carry, so I never have to worry about hiding a gun.
(sigh)

The Doc is out now.

 

[pyle]

My 'concealed carry' always prints and the women all point and stare with smiles on their faces.



Man, I am having fun here tonight.

I live in Illinois, which will probably be the only state after the other 49 allow it to not have concealed carry, so I never have to worry about hiding a gun.
(sigh)

Yeah, you are having fun aren't you? I had to read that twice before I got it!

 

[chris in va]

Thankfully VA currently allows open carry, so printing is a non-issue.

 

[Nitrogen]

Printing is almost always a non issue, as the sheep don't notice.

They'll think its a walkman, a phone, etc.