Where does the 30-06 fit in?

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ontarget said:
Where does the 30-06 fit into the 1000 yard game? All we hear about anymore is 6.5 CM and such. I know the 30-06 was doing the deed for a long time. Does anyone still use it for long range target shooting anymore?
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I seldom saw a 30-06 on the 1000 yard line. I shot it and it worked. German Salazar had a web page and he was shooting HM scores out their at Ben Avery with a 30-06, at 1000 yards.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/04/308-win-vs-30-06-match-results-may-surprise-you/
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/04/308-win-vs-30-06-match-results-may-surprise-you/

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek091.html

https://web.archive.org/web/2015031...pot.com/2009/11/cartridges-logical-30-06.html

A bud of mine, who won the 1000 yard Wimbleton, got on a 30-06 kick. He claimed his X count at 600 yards never got better than 15X (I think) with the 30-06, so he was of the opinion that out to 600 yards the 308 Win was more accurate. But, as he said, when you add in that extra 150 fps that a 30-06 gives, it might be the better 1000 yard cartridge.

Generally speaking, most of the 1000 yard 308 shooting that I have seen are Palma Shooters. They are shooting 308 Win, the 155 Palma works fine at that distance and does not kick too much. The 30-06 does kick more and I think that is why the round sort of faded away from the target shooting firing line. I shot at least one 30-06 barrel out of my Mauser match and I can say, sitting RF and prone RF, that 30-06 kicked me more and further than a 308 Win. There is nothing to be gained by getting the bejesus knocked out of you, in fact, it makes you flinch. It used to be that the 300 Win Mag was a popular 1000 yard cartridge, but that was before good 6.5 bullets came on the market. The 300 Win Mag, incidentally, will draw blood from your eyebrow if you creep too close to the rear sight. It was even less fun to shoot prone. The 6.5 bullets are so flat shooting, so wonderfully accurate, they have taken over the firing line outside of the Palma Shooters. The 7mm is making a comeback, all due to bullet ballistic coefficient.

You know, 1000 yards is a long way out there. The popular press treats it as though it is so 1980's, and now 2 mile shooting is all the rage, but folks need to go out and try it some times, because it is not like putt-putt golf.
 
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Several years ago a couple of members here were comparing long-range '06 shooting. Both had 30" barrels and were using 230-grain VLDs. They claimed one MOA at 1,300 yards.
 
ontarget said:
Where does the 30-06 fit into the 1000 yard game? All we hear about anymore is 6.5 CM and such. I know the 30-06 was doing the deed for a long time. Does anyone still use it for long range target shooting anymore?
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The Garand was overshadowed by M1a’s for Service Rifle shooting long ago. The 1,000yrd game isn’t dominated by either. Anything done with a 30-06 at 1,000yrds has been done better with a 300wm or 300wsm/rsaum, and most often, done better with a fast 6, 6.5, or 7mm.

The .30-06 case doesn’t have enough capacity to shoot a heavy enough bullet fast enough to compete with a smaller bore. To match the BC of a 6mm 105 Hybrid, the 30cal bullet will be over 180grn, and the fast 6’s push over 3000fps with ease even from a 24” barrel - speeds not attainable with the 180’s in the 30-06 case. So the ‘06 has to go even heavier, making up for lackluster velocity with higher ballistic coefficient. The recoil gets really stiff, then we stick longer and longer barrels on the end of the rifle to get more speed back, rifles get really heavy, and they still don’t run fast enough. Why run a 27lb 31” 30-06 when the same rifle in .300wsm or win mag would do even better? Why run any of that when a 6mm Dasher or 6.5 creedmoor would do just as much range with half the powder, less recoil, longer brass life, less barrel length, and less rifle weight?

The best recommendation I could make for a guy with a .30-06 rifle wanting to shoot long range would be to rebarrel it down to 280, 6.5-06, or 6.5-284. Get away from the recoil, gain the speed, and gain the aerodynamics.

I do use a 28” Palma barreled 30-06 for mid-long range hunting. I’m a glutton for punishment, and not many things I do ever make sense. That rifle has been a .30-06 since birth, and after 20yrs owning it, I can’t imagine it as anything else. I threw it into an adjustable pro-Varmint stock and added PT&G bottom metal. Every now and again I consider converting to .280 or 6.5-06, but I have other rifles to play with instead.
 
ontarget said:
I was just curious. I have a brand new Savage in 30-06 collecting dust in the back of my safe and was thinking about what to do with it.
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If you decide to change calibers some of the money for a new barrel can be recovered by selling the barrel you have. But a lot can be done with the 30-06, so you might want to shoot it first before tearing it down.
 
ontarget said:
I was just curious. I have a brand new Savage in 30-06 collecting dust in the back of my safe and was thinking about what to do with it.
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That is a good action, if the barrel is good, go shoot it. If you ever shoot with the best in the US, you can ask them about their loads, their guns, and you can buy the exact same equipment, use the same loads, and they will still out shoot you. There is more to accuracy than just equipment. Judgement, sight alignment and trigger pull, are actually more important than the difference between a 308 and a 30-06. Of course, if you are shooting something like a 45/70, you will be hopelessly outclassed in anything but totally calm conditions. I was surprised to find, from a BPCR shooter, how well those smoke sticks shoot at distance, but, they are so ballistically poor, it is only fair if you shoot against other BPCR shooters. However, a shooter with a 30-06 can shoot outstanding scores, you have the equipment, drag the thing out and burn out the barrel. You will learn more about precision shooting once you get on the firing line and put some lead down range, than you can yakking with catfish on the web.
 
There is more to accuracy than just equipment. Judgement, sight alignment and trigger pull, are actually more important than the difference between a 308 and a 30-06.......... if the barrel is good, go shoot it.
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However, a shooter with a 30-06 can shoot outstanding scores, you have the equipment, drag the thing out and burn out the barrel. You will learn more about precision shooting once you get on the firing line and put some lead down range, than you can yakking with catfish on the web.
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Right on...

Like Slamfire said, if a guy has a 30/06 and wants to learn to shoot at long range then go and SHOOT IT at long range. Learn from it.. Why not?? Although the 30/06 and the 308 have been overshadowed by other rounds in long range shooting, people have been shooting them at 1000 yards for the better part of a century, more than a century for the "06," and so can YOU.... THEN, if you like shooting long range and after you have learned a few things, you will be in a better position to decide for yourself which rifle and chambering is best for you to continue with.... In the meanwhile, you'll probably run into other shooters at the range who are usually more then happy to tell you about their rigs and will often even let you send a few downrange...

The same advise goes for guys with a 243, 25/06, 270 and others as well... I have known many who wanted to start shooting long range and spent a fortune on their first "long range" rifle only to discover after shooting it for a while that it really wasn't the ideal setup that they thought it would be.... Don't fall for the misconception that you need some highly specialized rig just to get started....... You might pick up a few accessories like a 20 MOA rail or maybe a new scope but you don't need a lot of stuff when you're just starting out....
 
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My 30-06 is pushing 180g Accubonds at 2,875fps. Powder is reloaded 22 and is a little under max charge. Basically the same ballistics as 300WSM factory rounds.

If you want to play at long range, you might look in this direction but maybe with some Hornady ELD or Sierra MatchKings for target.

Your not going to win any national matches, but I bet it will be impressive and fun.

What’s your barrel length? My Sako is 24.5 and I think that’s part of my velocity achievement.
 
I can't remember the barrel length, but it is just the stock barrel. It's a 111 model. I'm still working with my .223 Howa mini right now so the Savage is going to be a future project.
 
Art Eatman said:
I'd guess that the reason that the '06 lost popularity in 1,000-yard shooting is bullet-maker R&D in other diameters. 6.5 and 7 mm, for example. Better drag coefficients.
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Absolutely. The reality is that the .30-03/06 was obsolete the day it was created. The last century has simply been American shooters realizing what was painfully obvious to everyone else.
 
Art Eatman said:
Well, I wouldn't use the word "obsolete".
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It most certainly was - from day one when Springfield picked the .308 bore knowing that .264 and 284 would perform better (the 6.5 and 7mm Mausers were old news by then) because they had unused .30-40 Krag bullets and blanks to use up, it was obsolete. Doubly so because the benefit of the Label-type boat tail projectile was well known. Of course they had to come back and fix that problem at great embarrassment and expense. From the beginning it was an exercise in trying to cut corners, not make a good cartridge.
 
Gigglesnort. I guess that the ability to kill things doesn't count, nor does the ability to provide sub-MOA groups. Strange use of the word "obsolete".

From Merriam-Webster:

"Definition of obsolete
1a : no longer in use or no longer useful
  • an obsolete word
b : of a kind or style no longer current : old-fashioned
  • an obsolete technology"

The old ought-six is still being chambered; still being used, and is certainly useful. Thus endeth the language lesson for the day. :D
 
Obsolete is the wrong word, but in hindsight both 30-30 and 30-06 were a step backwards in the evolution of firearms. The 6.5X55 and 7X57 were introduced in the early 1890's predating the 30-30 and 30-06 by 4-15 years. Shooters in this country were still living in the black powder mindset. (many to this day) and hard a difficult time wrapping their minds around the fact that a smaller caliber bullet could be just as effective. Remember we were just a few years past the Civil war where 58 caliber rifles were the norm. We still thought of the 45-70 as a small caliber rifle.

I've had a 40+ year love affair with the 30-06. But sadly it's day is past. There are simply better cartridges today. There were better cartridges 100 years ago, but most of us didn't realize it. Other than for nostalgia I'd not recommend one to anyone anymore.
 
30-06 obsolete?! Hogwash! 30-06 no longer useful? Utter Rubbish!! But to aswer the OP, as a target rifle Llama Bob is correct, it is a step back, even though it is quite capable of fine accuracy. In modern times it can't compete with smaller bore bc's due to the lack of powder volume for the heavy, high bc bullets. But as a medium range hunting cartridge it excels. There are several other -06 case variants that will make better target cartridges though...
 
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