Which of these calibers for a pair of long range rifles?

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Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

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*EDIT* Please read my post #20 below, where I have slightly changed my choices and clarified my questions.


Original Post:

I have narrowed it down to these only (at the moment), for purposes of this thread/discussion. Which would you go with for building TWO rifles in the same caliber: Both a long-range "400 yard lighter-weight hunter" for game up to the size of moose, AND a "600-plus yard heavy precision rifle" - one for hunting and the other for target shooting and if necessary, "interdiction":

--6.5-.284 Norma,
--6.5mm-'06,
--.280 Rem, or
--7mm WSM

??

I was leaning toward the 6.5mm-'06, but now I'm leaning toward the .280 Rem. Obviously, 6.5mm-06 is the only wildcat of the bunch, so that has it's on PITAs asociated with it....

Now, would your answer change or stay the same if I changed to facts to "for animals up to the size of mule deer"?

Also, anyone know how MUCH hotter can .280 Rem be loaded than the "dumbed-down-for-pumps-and-semis" loads which the manuals show? Lyman's shows 50,000 CUP max for .280, but shows a max of 54,400 CUP for .270, and a max of 58,000 PSI for .30-'06.

Is there any real advantage to purposely picking two different calibers for such rifles? (e.g. so it's easy to tell which ammo is for which)

Which can you go hotter in with .280 Rem: A modern turnbolt (such as Rem 700), or a T/C Encore, or about the same?

Thanks!
 
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I would say 280 only because it has been a mainstay in my family for yrs. and has accounted for dozens of elk through antelope with consistant results.
I have a 77V that I am working into a distance shooter and many bolt and pump variations.
I would find a No.1 rather than an Encore if I was in the market for a single shot.

Of course I have choices that I would prefer but from your options the 280 seems best of the 4.
 
I would probably pick a different caliber for each rifle. I would probably go with 6BR for the 600 yard target rifle. It seems to do amazing at that range, though I wouldn't be using it for moose. I have come to really like the 6BR of late for the 300-600 yard paper punching. It has done well out to 1000 yards but those tend to be days with almost perfect conditions. For 600 yards though I think you will be satisfied with the 6BR.

Now that wasn't an option you listed and you said to keep it to those listed so 6.5x284 would be my suggestion using one of the 4 chamberings listed as options.
 
I'd just do either a 308 or 30-06 for both or possibly a 6.5x55 if you want a smaller bore.

Either way your same caliber requirement may be a bit over overthought seeing that if you NECK SIZE you won't be able to share ammo between them anyhow, you'll use different bullets and loads for the two applications about the only thing you'd get out of would be having another set of dies

If you like the 280 but not the weak kneed data why not go with he 270win. There's only .007" difference and you won't be on your own coming up with full pressure load data


of course I may be a bit jaded see my post on this matter
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=493296
 
if you're willing to do a wildcat i don't know why you wouldn't do a 6.5 wsm...

also, fail to see the rhyme and reason here...6.5-06 and 280's are both long actions, the other two are short actions.

also, if you are including up to elk/moose at long range w/ long action guns, i do not see why a 338-300 rum, 338 rum, or even a 300 rum wouldn't be included.

if you were to include the bigger game at sub-400 yards, i'd just go 7 wsm.

so, of the chamberings you have listed, 7 wsm is it. for the chambering i'd reccomend to a handloader, 338-300 rum.
 
You read my hunting cartridge thread...and only one was on there, so my vote goes to the .280Rem. for that purpose. I like the 6.5-06 for target shooting because there are great bullets available (not that 7mm is a slouch by any means) and you can afford to shoot it (but only if you choose to form your own brass from '06, otherwise 6.5-.284 all the way), and a target rifle is of no use if you can't practice with and enjoy it. If you want just one cartridge it is a toss-up as I feel each one is better than the other for the two roles.

I haven't tried it but I can't imagine why the .280Rem. couldn't hold more pressure than the .270, and nearly as much as the .30-06. I would slowly work up to about 60kPSI and check closely for signs of pressure. In all honesty it is likely good for just as much as the old oh-six in a good action.

EDIT: Just looked up the SAAMI for .280Rem., it is the same as .30-06: 60,000PSI (.270Win. is 65,000PSI, so that puts everything on the same terms).

:)
 
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I'd just do either a 308 or 30-06 for both or possibly a 6.5x55 if you want a smaller bore.
Click to expand...
Of course you would, that would be the best option by far. But to be fair the OP was very specific in saying it was down to those cartidges only for this thread. That being the case, 7mm WSM is my vote.
 
6.5-.284 Norma

a round designed for competitive shooting well past 600 yards and good for animals up to the size of moose...if you can do it with a 6.5x55mm, the extra capacity of the .284 case would give you even more velocity.

BTW: the .284 case has the same capacity as the '06 case...it was designed that way. the only difference between the two is the lenght of the action needed.
 
For further reference see here directly from SAAMI, page 26 has the good stuff. CUP specifications are also in there as well. I'd rather you not just take my word for it, WRT hazardous (when use incorrectly) maximum pressure specifications.

:)
 
Why the oddball calibers?

Nothing wrong with spending a WHOLE LOT OF MONEY on something that is a double-tap hobby project I guess.

I do hope your appreciation for such an investment presents itself in the form of endearing love.
Otherwise, good luck trying to get your money back out of a custom .280 Remington or the latest-greatest-soon-to-be-stalest Winchester whatever-mag.

The bolt-gun calibers that will most reliably hold their value are:
.223
.308
30-06
.300 Win. Mag
.50 BMG

A brace of oddball-caliber guns will be expensive tomato stakes if they ever get separated from the ammo supply in your sock drawer during hard times.
 
Dr.,

Think brass, Quality brass (i.e. Lapua). Of the cartridges you mentioned, AFAIK, only the 6.5-.284 is available in Lapua brass. I went with the .30-06 and 6.5x55 on my builds, both of which are available in Lapua brass.

Don
 
ussr, i also make caliber decisions based on whether lapua brass is available. fortunately, for 223 and 308, i bought it years ago when it was relatively cheap. today, wow. harder decision
 
30-06...

Wide variety and availability of match grade components, hunting ammunition, and cheap surplus practice ammo.

As accurate as any cartridge, with an extremely wide range of uses from light recoil plinking, game hunting, or magnum-level long range performance.

Some of the oddball cartridges may have advantages in some areas, but they will become a pain once components and ammunition are hard to find. They also don't do anything that can't be done by standard calibers.
 
280 Rem. (or 270 Win. as krockus mentioned) in a Remington 700 action (that action is as strong as you'll EVER need)

Its easier on barrels, good ballistics, and several options for making brass when 280 (270) brass isn't available.
 
.277 bullet selection blows. Forget about ANY chambering in that caliber. I narrowed it down to my choices for many good reasons. Only other calibers I *might* consider are 6.5x55 & 7mm RSAUM. Remember, I need a great bullet selection for both hunting and target shooting, and 6.5 and 7mm are where it's at there, primarily.

No, I'm not getting beat up with any .30s or inefficient supermag 7mms, and certainly no 323s or .338s - no way in hell. BTDT - I have a perpetually-dislocated-tendency shoulder issue now (sports injury). I'm getting old(er) and just ain't gonna do it. I want the first of the two rifles under 7 lbs without scope, so......

And I'm not going down to a 6mm either, for a very long range critter-getter. Also not doing any belted cases.

Thanks for the many replies so far - please keep them coming, but only as they relate to the 4 calibers mentioned and the 2 new "dark horse" calibers brought up in this post above. :)

Please, please - I'm beggin ya - please do NOT recommend any chambering that is not a 6.5mm or a 7mm chambering.

I think the best contribution is the "think quality brass" - thanks guys - that's probably going to be the deciding factor. I guess I *could* make .280 rem brass from Lapua .30-06, but then (a) it wouldn't be quite as good (after re-forming), (b) would require a couple of additional steps the first time loading, and (c) would have the wrong headstamp - not good when one ALSO owns a .30-06. That's making me lean to 6.5-284 maybe.....

Long action, short action, meh....... Extremely minor consideration, that one.

However, I do want to seriously consider adding the 6.5-.270 WSM to the mix (6.5-7mm WSM, whatever you want to call it) - does anyone have more links or info on this wildcat?

So I guess we have seven calibers to consider total now:

--6.5x55mm (small but steady following; seems to slowly be becoming more popular)
--6.5-.284 Norma (somewhat popular and apparently becoming more so)
--6.5mm-'06 (wildcat / "dead" at present)
--6.5mm-.270 WSM (wildcat / "dead" at present)
--.280 Rem (small but steady following, but apparently on a very slow decline)
--7mm RSAUM (on life support)
--7mm WSM (nearing death)


REMEMBER, please, my Questions are as follows:

(1A) For building two guns, one for long range, large and very large game hunting, and the other for very long range target shooting in the same caliber, WHICH of these 7 calibers (only), and (1B) why?

(2A) Would your answer CHANGE or NOT change if you take away the largest game like moose and limit it to large deer (northern mulies, etc.)? And (2B) if you answered CHANGE, then change to which one?

(3) Should I forget the idea of same caliber - as being an unncessary / silly requirement for building two rifles for two different purposes - yes or no? I.e. Keep this requirement or ditch it? (Thanks, benzy2 - good input!)

Thanks very much! :)

My top 3 are now: 6.5-284 Norma, .280 Rem, 6.55x55, in that order. But I need to do more research on the 6.5-.270 WSM - any chance of it being legitamized in the future?
 
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My dad has suggested 7mm WSM for my choice of long range gun. However i think i will stick with my first choice of .308. Not as flat shooting as the 7mm but when the **** hits the fan i think i will be able to find this ammo everywhere.
 
Folks, we are right now IN the "hardest of times" since the great depression, and Midway still has brass and bullets for the .14 greased lightning, and .487 siberian buttstomper available - gawdsakes quit telling me to go ".308 or .30-06" in case the great shortage/TEOWAWKI happens! :mad: :rolleyes:
 
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There are enough 140 grain "long shooter" bullets out there...you only need to find you and the gun both like (Berger, Nosler Ballistic Tip, etc.)
Click to expand...
No where near as many good selections as 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm, and .30cal...whatcha wanna bet that has something to do with his chosen alternatives?

:)
 
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