Who started this .380 auto trend?

[JohnBiltz]

There were still pretty good .380s around during all that. I had a Sig .380 in the late 80s. Beretta sold several. Walthers were around. Not sure when Bersa got going but they have been around awhile. But everything imported had to meet points to be imported. They even had to extend the grip to get a Walther PPK into the country. Kel-Tec was indeed the start of the super small polymer .380s.

 

[cxm]

Gotta be the Colt 1908.

That sure is a handsome pistol.

Not only handsome but it conceals very well indeed... very flat and without anything to catch on clothes... I always thought it a shame Colt's didn't scale down the 1911 a bit and shape it like the 1903/08.

On top of everything else it is probably the most reliable 380 I have shot... though the FN BDA380 is very good too as are the various 8x series Berettas.

FWIW

Chuck

 

[Girodin]

I probably should have said "Small plastic .380 trend" . The suppression info is interesting, that's a different take on the use of the caliber. My experience on the LCP is that it's not even a comfortable purse gun. It's as though some manufacturer came up with an idea and put it in production w/o looking at all the different variables.

best
jr

Gun manufactures exist to make money. They make and market guns to sell them. You may think there is something better for a given task but that doesn't mean it wasn't an outstanding idea for the company to make and sell that gun. I can only imagine the number of LCPs ruger has sold. There is a reason they decided to make their own kel tec.

The recent market for guns like the LCP is IMHO a result of shall issue laws sweeping the country. More people are carrying guns. A large number of them are not particularly "serious" about it. That is to say, they don't do any real training beyond what is required to obtain the permit, the don't regularly practice with the gun they carry, they aren't interested it developing much marshal skill, they value easy to carry and hide over actual utility of the weapon. If you want a gun, want it to be really easy to carry, and rarely shoot it and don't really understand much about its limitations then a tiny polymer pocket .380 seems like a great idea. Add to the equation that it is pretty cheap and it is even better for many people. There wasn't the huge number of such buyers prior to shall issue laws.

FWIW, I own an LCP and think it serves an important role.

I believe that shall issue laws are also the reason for the more recent development of many small single stack 9x19s (shield, pps, 709 slim, G43, etc).

 

[Pelo801]

Lets not forget the Grendels, the P10 and P12. They were double stack and not nearly as thin as the Keltec. But they really were the prelude to it. And if look at them, you can definitely see the lineage.

 

[jhb]

in modern times being plastic frames, light, thin, affordable, and pocket carry...keltec lead the charge. every other maker from colt to sig, s&w, ruger you name it chased after keltecs lead. in the end now these big makers have done well taking back the market. can't deny keltec was way ahead and innovative on this long before the big makers caught on to what was going on.

 

[CornCod]

Another event that brought about the pocket pistol craze was Florida passing its concealed carry bill in the late 80's. A lot of other states followed suit. Hardy souls could manage to carry M1911's concealed, but most folks started looking around for a compromise between weight, size and power. Ten years ago there were a lot fewer compact 9mm's than there are now. Many opted for .380.

 

[Dog Soldier]

The .380 has been popular in Europe for the last Century. It was issued to American Officers in WWII. The .380 cartridge was never the problem.
The cheap poorly made imported handguns was the problem. Knowledgeable gun buyers owned the Walther and Colts etc. My own choice is a Colt Mustang Plus II.

 

[Hokkmike]

I carry the P-238. nice little "heavy metal" gun.

 

[Dog Soldier]

The import rules were introduced in the 1968 Gun Control laws. There were tons of cheap handguns imported prior to that.

 

[george burns]

Also those 13 round 380 Barettas, were nice little guns in the mid 90's. But the Hi-cap 9mm craze hit about the same time, and everyone had to have the 15 round Glock or Baretta, H&K or Sig. I remember carrying a 15 round Para on my hip, for a year or two, only because I could. The gun was alloy, but the bullets weren't, lol. It was like a brick sticking 14 - 15 rounds in those Para fullsize guns.Oddly enough mine ran great. I had custody of an employees 380 Baretta, and should have bought it when he got clear of the charges. They were nice small guns with 13+1 if I remember right, wood grips.

 

[zaitcev]

The Beretta 84FS was so popular that Beretta re-introduced it at the U.S. market this year. They weren't going to make it anymore, but people just aren't taking liking to Pico's terrible magazine release.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

I still like to carry my SIG P230 at times.

 

[chardin]

Me. I did it. I'm sorry.

 

[David N]

A lot of people say the 380 craze started when Kel-Tec released the P3AT in '95 or '96. Note that this was long before the Little Copied Pistol.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I still like to carry my SIG P230 at times.

Oooh thats nice... That's another one on my "gonna get one of these days" list.
IMO that's one of the very few that rival the HSc for pleasing aesthetics.

 

[RPRNY]

I think it was an answer to a question nobody asked. If a 9mm or 38 special is too warm, why not a .32? Is it because "they" say a .32 is not sufficient for knock down power?

best
jr

Bond gets his PPK in clip below (Dr. No), pre Q gadgets and gimmicks. M says " you're a double 0 agent, licensed to kill, not licensed to die" and orders him to carry a Walther PPK in 32 ACP for its improved "stopping power", at least compared to his previous 25 ACP Beretta, "and able to take a suppressor with very little loss in velocity". One may well disagree with the M's conclusions and choice of caliber, but this represents one of the more realistic firearms discussions in all of movie history.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...D8BC9F3FD89F3746C29FD8BC9F3FD89F374&FORM=VIRE

 

[stoky]

I find it interesting that Colt dropped the Mustang just before the pocket .380 pocket mania. Sig picked it up with the P238, with better sights and near perfect market timing, then Colt re-introduced the Mustang ala plastic, just in time to miss the wave.

 

[stoky]

Bond gets his PPK in clip below (Dr. No), pre Q gadgets and gimmicks. M says " you're a double 0 agent, licensed to kill, not licensed to die" and orders him to carry a Walther PPK in 32 ACP for its improved "stopping power", at least compared to his previous 25 ACP Beretta, "and able to take a suppressor with very little loss in velocity". One may well disagree with the M's conclusions and choice of caliber, but this represents one of the more realistic firearms discussions in all of movie history.

"delivery like a brick through a plate glass window."

 

[BusMaster007]

Geez, I thought I tuned into a 9 vs. .45 thread about the .40

 

[midland man]

I like the 25acp but I guess no one else does but me! and are looking to see who makes a good 25acp now?

 

[Dog Soldier]

It seems Colt sold the Mustang rights to SIG. Then Colt went to market with their first SNS/Saturday Night Special.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/05/robert-farago/new-from-colt-mustang-xsp/

 

[Gordon]

I took a .380 PPK and three mags and 100 rounds of ammo with me on my flight over to Nam in 1970 as a 97 B . I had it since 1966 and NO it did not come back from Nam, I traded it off for a PX Rolex GMT Oyster to a Pilot.
Recently I sold off my Browning 1955 .380 , which was very slick looking and relatively safe for pocket carry loaded and a Colt 1908 and a Huskyvarna 1907 FN copy that was sleeved back from 9mm long to .380 . I kept the Remington model 51 as my sole .380 because I like it so much .

 

[george burns]

I always wanted a 230 SIG, but, something always seemed to get me sidetracked, either it was the PPK's that I had at the time, or later the size seemed too large when compared to other guns in that caliber, "as guns became smaller". But the gun just had magnificent lines, "more is less", style.
But if you fired a 380 in a 24 oz gun, it was an easy round to shoot, unlike an LCR, seacamp. or a Mustang, Pony, etc. That weighed almost half as much.

 

[Tacoma]

While they didn't start it, I think the NRA's National Rifleman magazine can lay some claim to boosting the 380's popularity plenty back 6-7 years ago when they did an piece reviewing the market of (nine, if memory serves) little 380's. Shortly afterwards, I can remember that 380 ammo dried up for near a year as everybody bought 380's and tried to feed them. I remember this well as I was fortunate enough to be an early adopter of the (then new) S&W BG380 and was forced to buy brass, bullets and dies to build my own ammo.

FWIW, I am old enough to remember a time when a quality 12 oz, mid-power pocket sized pistol was just a dream. ( One that would be expensive to chase!) I still own (and carry) my BG380 although other 380's have come and gone since.

 

[herrwalther]

Of course, Bond used one in .32, not .380. Upgrading him from his .25 Beretta, Q told him the .32 "hits like a brick through a plate glass window!"

Old school espionage. Shots made at very close distances where a .25 and .32 were adequate. It wasn't until the new Bond films that the best spy in the world was shooting across factories with a 4" barrel 9mm.

But the line from Russia with love, that went "It has a kick like a Brick through a plate glass window" was one of the best marketing lines ever.

It was Dr. No in 1962.

The 380 and 9mm really have stood the test of time. Cartridges are both roughly the same age at 100 years old give or take. But can still find them on most store shelves. Much harder to find the .32 and .25 boxes.