Why aren't there BHP clones in the $450 range?

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ImperatorGray said:
I love the FÉG Hi-Powers - but only the ones that are single-action.
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Those others aren't Hi-Powers. They roughly based on the 2nd or 3rd Generation S&W design...

With regard to other comments about the FEGs -- I've always heard that the early ones were true HP clones, and some of the later ones were less true to the design -- with some parts NOT interchangeable with the BHP. You need to be careful about what you're getting.
 
Walt Sherrill said:
I've always heard that the early ones were true HP clones, and some of the later ones were less true to the design
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You might even have heard that in the rest of the post you quoted... ;)

And yes, it's some of the single-actions that are Hi-Power rather than Smith operation. Again, details in that post.
 
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A friend of mine has an FEG that he bought used a few years back for around $300 LNIB. It's been a very reliable and accurate gun for him. Before that he had a Hi-Power Mk.III two tone model and he felt that the FEG compared favorably to it though the Browning definitely had the better overall fit and finish.
 
Coles and AIM both have real deal FN surplus Hi-Powers in the $450 range. And all of the ones I've bought have been great shooters, albeit not always pretty in terms of finish.
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
Coles and AIM both have real deal FN surplus Hi-Powers in the $450 range. And all of the ones I've bought have been great shooters, albeit not always pretty in terms of finish.
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Don't know if AIM has any left in stock. Awhile back, they had a small batch of aluminum alloy "lightweight" frame Austrian Police surplus HPs. They disappeared with an hour or two.

I sure wish I would've grabbed one.
 
Aren't the British switching from Hi-Powers?

I hope they're not going to chop all those guns up.
 
ImperatorGray said:
You might even have heard that in the rest of the post you quoted...
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We're not talking about the same thing. You previously wrote:
I love the FÉG Hi-Powers - but only the ones that are single-action. Not that I can say anything against the double-action version except that double-action autoloaders are very much not my style.

Anyway, it's easy to tell the difference between the singles and the doubles, as the doubles have the safety slide-mounted.

The other difference, that's not as easy to tell without breaking the weapon down, is that some of them are Browning/FN clones while some use a system closer to the S&W 5906. This has pictures so you can see what I'm talking about.​

The S&W-like FEG, called the P9R, was NOT a Hi-Power clone. As you note, the slide-mounted safety is one indicator of a difference, but you can also just pull the trigger with the hammer down! The P9R may have been a S&W copy; if you compare the P9R to a S&W Model 59 and you'll see a great resemblance. The only thing Hi-Power about the F9R is that FEG used that name when selling them to the West. The P9R could use S&W magazines but could not use Hi-Power mags. It looked a little bit LIKE an HP, a bit more like the S&W 59, and has almost nothing to do with the HP design. Internally it is nothing like an HP. That some confuse the S&W version with an HP version is due to FEG's marketing trickery. :eek:

I was addressing the true HP clones built by Feg: the P9M and the FP9. The original P9M had almost full parts interchangeability with the HP. The FP9 was almost the same gun, but had a ventilated rib on the top. The FP9 was made by FEG but sold by Mauser. (It's strange to see a Mauser-marked HP, and I've seen two!!) The Mauser version typically had a high gloss finish. (The Browning version of the HP was typically prettier than the FN version in much the same way.) That said, many of the FEG P9Ms (or KBI PJK-9HPs, mentioned below) were also very nicely finished.

KBI imported the FEG PJK-9HP, which was, I think, the P9M. (I read recently that the "PJK" designation was the KBI owner's wife's initials; she had just died, and he did it to honor her memory.) Some of the last of the KBI imports may be the ones with some minor compatiblity issues, but even then, it's wasn't likely to be too big a problem. Early ones were not a problem.

I think we're generally saying the same thing, just using different terms and phrases -- and I added a slightly different point to the discussion.

.
 
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Aren't there Argentinian clones (FM) and Bulgarian ones (Arcus).

I know someone from Argentina who liked his.
 
The Argentian FM versions were originally licensed clones; later FM versions were similar, but no longer exactly made to FN specs. The one or two I've handled were like the early FEGs, but not as nicely finished. (These were originally service pistols.)

The Arcus guns use the HP pattern in their SA versions, but I don't know whether they ever made any that really LOOKED like an HP. Don't know how their DA versions function.... maybe they "copied" FEG? :D
 
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My brother still has an older Argentine FM and it is much less refined than most Hungarian FEG models I have seen. Finish appears to be a matte black enamel paint that's was rather unevenly applied. Trigger pull is extremely heavy and the sights are tiny as is the thumb safety (much like the original Hi-Power), and are difficult to use. Overall fit and finish of the gun is serviceable but could be readily improved upon to make it more shooter friendly.
 
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I see several recommendations for FEG, and I whole-heartedly concur. The one I had (and sold) actually shot as well as my collectable BHP. I bought it, with 6 mags, for $240.
 
I own an FM high power and aside from some issues with failure to eject it has been flawless. The ejection issues come up after 150-200 rounds at the range, and I believe are due to dirt in the extractor, or a worn ejector. I have not torn it apart to find out which as it is a range gun at the moment.

The finish on it is not all that great, the original sights were HORRIBLE, as was the original safety. I spent some money and got a new safety and had it installed by my local gunsmith. The slide had to be milled for the new sights, I had the sight manufacturer do the job for about $35.00 (the milling job was $15, the shipping took the rest of the money). I do intend on doing a full detail strip and rebuild with new springs/parts as required and a good refinish. I figure at that point I will have ~$425 in it. I bought it for $315 about 10 years ago, and so far love it.
 
I wish I'd keep my DalyHP. The finish is really nice the sights are good and it is easy to c&s parts it. I sold it bc I.hated the roll Mark. Short sided of me. It really was a nice gun and would have been perfect to keep in car or pack.
 
I underlined the part in the following quote...

Double_J said:
The slide had to be milled for the new sights, I had the sight manufacturer do the job for about $35.00 (the milling job was $15, the shipping took the rest of the money). I do intend on doing a full detail strip and rebuild with new springs/parts as required and a good refinish. I figure at that point I will have ~$425 in it. I bought it for $315 about 10 years ago, and so far love it.
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$315 (base price) + $35 (milling and shipping) = $350. You also paid something for the improved sights and the new safety, which may have been installed by a gunsmith. And you're talking about new springs and parts (if needed). Refinishing is probably going to be $100 or so if you can get it done locally, depending on the TYPE of finish -- and at least $50 more if you have to ship it away.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do what you're doing, as the proposed changes sound like a reasonable upgrade for a known "good" gun. I was just wondering whether your cost figures might be a little light?
 
There are a bazillion clones of the Hi-Power manufactured throughout the world, but not all of them get imported to the U.S. Argentina has FM. Hungary has FEG. Israel had the Kareen (no longer made I believe). Canada does the Inglis. India makes a copy of the Inglis. Malaysia has their own version. Somebody was cranking out fake FN clones for Iraq and other Middle Eastern countries. For a short time, there was a U.S. company either importing or manufacturing a stainless steel Hi-Power clone.

You could probably do an entire encylopedia just on Hi-Power variants. I know just the different versions of the Argentine and Hungary clones would get you quite a few pages.
 
... Canada does the Inglis.
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Did you mean "did" rather than "does?" I thought the7 stopped making the Inglis right after (or before) the end of WWII, and only a relatively few (200,000?) were ever made.

I had one for a while; it had been refinished (something that look liked a bit like nickel, but was probably Duracoat, etc.); looked OK but shot like a shotgun (patterns, not groups) and my gunsmith -- who is pretty good -- really couldn't do much to cost-effectively make it better. It had hardly any collector value, so I traded it for a DaeWoo DH-40. I think I got the better part of the deal.
 
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I'm not sure when they stopped manufacturing the Inglis; but Canada still uses the Hi-Power and still has new, unwrapped mags with the "JI" stamp and tailed baseplate for them. I know at some point FN stepped in and put the kibosh on new Inglis pistols though. I wonder if there are any Inglis pistols still in military service?
 
My last HP purchase was a pre WWII with the old style firing pin retition and smooth wooden grips with scant thumb swells. I only paid $170 for it......it had languished un wanted in the shop for months......oh wait.......that was 1977......

I guess there just isn't as big a market for the HP as the 1911 or CZ75-ish or someone would make them at those prices.

BTW that gun ended up with someone that butchered it with "modern" adjustable sights ( old Millets if I recall) and extended safety and slide stop and rubber grips........don't make me tell you guys what the same guy did to a June 1914 produced commercial 1911..........I do not want to be banned from the site for causing nightmares.

-kBob
 
Don't think the ARCUS guns are clones. They are BHP-like guns using a similar design.

They're like a lot of the CZ-pattern guns made in Sweden, Italy, Israel and Turkey: similar design, similar feel, but not close to being clones. The Turkish guns are apparently fine weapons, and sell for almost half the price of the guns they copy..
 
I would hypothesize that there are not a cheap new manufacture Hi power clones for two reasons.

First the relative popularity of the hi power versus the 1911. In the US the hi power does not have the nostalgia, history or inertia of the 1911. It also doesn't have the great trigger that I believe is one of the things that keeps the 1911 relevant vis-a-vis many of the new wonder guns. If you look at discussions of why people choose a 1911 over more modern options I'm not sure how much of that translates to a hi-power. None of this is a knock on the hi-power, it is a time test design and one of the great service pistols of the last 80+ years and is only recently fading away from wide spread duty use.

Second is the fact that you can score pretty good quality used real deal FNs for about that price. If there were a bunch of used Colt 1911s for $450 ish I don't think those Filipino and Turkish 1911s would be selling nearly as well.

There also are the clones discussed above that sell for between $300-400
 
I went to the Arcus website and their current production guns don't look like a BHP (just similar - but not a clone)

I've always heard them described a BHP clones, but their not.
 
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