Why aren't there BHP clones in the $450 range?

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I have 2 Turkish made pistols and agree that they are very much worth the money. My Stoeger Cougar 9mm is as good as my SIG guns in every way and I paid $359 for it. Also the SAR B6 is a great gun for the money and I paid only about $279 for it. Most of these new Turkish made pistols are a real bargain for the money and very reliable too.
 
About 30 years ago I had a chance to buy, from a friend, a Hungarian made FEG copy of the Browning for $250 and did not do it. Browning was squaking about copy right infringement etc when they first came out., And I was more snobbish about guns from foreign countries then. It was a mistake I made and regret it after shooting them and could not get a good one later. I never considered the real deal because the design just did not interest me enough to pay that kind of money. Perhaps Turkey will make it, who knows. That said, with all the better designed guns in the market today, would it sell?
 
They do not sell well and are expensive to make. Charles Daly made them and lost money on everyone they sold. They were basically FEGs assembled here in the US first by Dan Wesson then by KBI. FMs out of Argentina are also pretty good as well as the FEGs. When you can get these guns NIB for around $350 give or take they are a good deal. I personally would not consider one unless it was under $300.

The other issue is that there are tons of them on the used market. There are 2 major importers of surplus guns these days. You can get a decent MKIII gun for about $450-$500 out the door. Why would you buy a clone when you can get the real deal?

There is a smith who is making new modern custom like BHPs. Chuck Warner is his name IIRC. You can Google him a decide if you want to roll the dice with him. He has a long history some of which is not good. These are not "clones" and will be selling for well over $1000.

I believe that there is just not enough demand and they cannot be made at a low enough price point for anyone to tool up and bring them to market.
 
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The other difference, that's not as easy to tell without breaking the weapon down, is that some of them are Browning/FN clones while some use a system closer to the S&W 5906. This has pictures so you can see what I'm talking about.
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actually, its very simple. The true bhp clones will have the cross frame bar just above the trigger AND the rounded part on the slide stop.
 
FM argentina clones are pretty darn nice too. and can be had pretty decently. Had one for a few years till I could afford to trade it out for an adjustable sight hi-power.
 
I agree with Girodin about the reasons there are far more 1911 clones than High Power clones in the US.

And did I read the Aim Surplus website right? The double action Arcus costs less than the single action Arcus? Somehow, that does not inspire confidence in the DA version.

The Arcus guns, IIRC, were never really High Power clones--except for their magazines. That made them of interest to people during the years of the hi-cap magazine ban, because of the huge number of existing 13-round High Power magazines.

I think if I wanted a pistol from Bulgaria, I'd get a Makarov. (Hey, that's why I got my High Power clone from India, and it turned out to be an EXCELLENT gun.)
 
The other difference, that's not as easy to tell without breaking the weapon down, is that some of them are Browning/FN clones while some use a system closer to the S&W 5906. This has pictures so you can see what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

As noted above, it's pretty easy in some cases. With the SA guns, they may be clones, or not -- if not, some parts won't interchange. You won't always know unless something breaks..

The ones that LOOK something like Browning/FN clones but are really based on the S&W design are DOUBLE ACTION models -- not clones. Just try pulling the trigger on an empty gun when the hammer is down: if it's a clone/variant, it'll be SA and nothing will happen. If it's one of the S&W-type guns, the trigger will raise and drop the hammer (in true DA fashion.)
 
Interesting that this thread should show back up now. I still have my Charles Daly Hi Power (it's a keeper!) and since my original post I installed the C&S No Bite Hammer, which I can't recommend enough. With the original hammer the gun chewed me up so bad I hated shooting it. After installing the C&S hammer it is a completely different pistol, I'm finally able to experience what so many folks love about the P35 design and, even as a die hard 1911 guy, I'm impressed. I'd carry this gun, no reservations. Anyway, I swapped the original thick rubber grips for some Navidrex thin grips and also deepened the detents for the thumb safety so it has a decent on/off 'click' to it now. These are really well put together guns (mine was built by Magnum Research), if you can find one, grab it, you won't be sorry.

As an aside, this past Sunday our 13y/o used the CDHP in his first competition, a USPSA Action Pistol match. The gun ran great, zero issues, and he did a really good job. He was safe, knew what to expect from the ROs and followed their instructions to the letter, he shot well, though the longer shots (20-25yds) gave him some trouble. Best of all, he had a great time, finally getting to be a shooter instead of just a range monkey helping me with my gear and taping targets. He's hooked now and can't wait until next months match.:D

Some links to a couple of video clips from the match and a few pics-
http://s233.photobucket.com/user/wc145/story
http://s233.photobucket.com/user/wc145/Tucker stage 4/story

20150423_123821.jpg
20150423_124003.jpg
20150421_180646.jpg

His gear, from Caldwell Gunleather-
SDC11774.jpg
 
It was my experience a long, long time ago that when I got home with my "clone" and it was mine, I sighed because it was not the REAL thing.

I wasted the money I could have had towards the one I really wanted.

Now I am out the money, have an imitation of the real thing and have to start over saving up more money to get the one I want.

You cant afford to not buy the original, the best, the one you really want.

Kinda like the saying, "Never enough time to do it right, but always time to do it over."

be safe.
 
C0untZer0 said:
I went to the Arcus website and their current production guns don't look like a BHP (just similar - but not a clone)

I've always heard them described a BHP clones, but their not.
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The arcus 94 doesn't look exactly like the fn hipower on the outside but internally they are definitely hipower. I use to have one and the hammer sear and extractor could be swapped straight across. The trigger linkage and the mag safety look the same. Grips and mags fit too.
 
It was my experience a long, long time ago that when I got home with my "clone" and it was mine, I sighed because it was not the REAL thing.

I wasted the money I could have had towards the one I really wanted.

Now I am out the money, have an imitation of the real thing and have to start over saving up more money to get the one I want.

You cant afford to not buy the original, the best, the one you really want.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to lie, that really made me smile coming from someone with a user name of Sauer1911 (BTW I have a 1911 Sig so I'm not knocking them per se.)
 
Though I agree that $800 smackers is a lot of doe... the factory new BHPs are very well made and have an excellent finish. I picked up the 75th anniversary model about 2 years after they came out on discount from CDNN and love it.

Removing the mag disconnect is a must imo
 
I'm not very familiar with HP's or all the clones, that's a platform that I'd always admired from afar, never actually touched any. But I stumbled on an Israeli-made Kareen BHP clone in a local shop for $295, I think it was, and that one came home with me. Used, of course, and I know nothing of its history, but it's very well made and hell-for-stout. Shoots great too! Very glad I got it.
 
Bargains are out there but demand has never been equal to the 1911. The heyday was PJK9HP's for under $250.

I ended up with 3 of them. 2 full clones and a late version with a simplified slide stop and slide.

Many of the "Kareen" models are FEG's.

As for patent issues and infringement.. the BHP should have expired in '85 or so. FEG might have been infringing before that but they were behind the iron curtain.

FEG couldn't sustain itself on commercial export pistol sales alone, the fall of the Warsaw Pact probably ultimately did them in.
 
Forget clones for more than $450. You can buy the real thing for $450. It will be used and surplus, but it will be the real thing.
 
The hi-powers that AIM has/had are decent hi-powers for the money. I bought one of the batch they had in March. Sure it isn't a 100% finish, but I didn't buy it for the finish, lol. It has some finish wear and small scratches - but for a shooter or for a carry piece - that won't matter. They had some in March that looked brand new (those sold for $499 IIRC). I have a family member that bought one as well (the 2nd batch they had towards the end of March for around $449) and theirs looks almost new. Mechanically they are excellent and they shoot excellent.

Besides - hi-powers are like potato chips, you can't stop at one. :D
 
A few years ago I bit the bullet and bought a 75th anniversary Hi Power. Later I came across an epoxy-finished new Mk III and bought it. Were they worth the pain of their cost? IMO, yes. Every bit. They are going nowhere. I do like the FEG PJK-9HPs, a lot. But, I also the believe the MkIIIs are tougher and have much better and more positive safeties. I can't afford to buy everything that catches my fancy so I need to choose well and believe I did in this case.
 
I don't know about now, but several years ago around here, used hi powers in great shape would show up at the shops for prices hovering around the $500 mark.
 
The one thing actual FN Hi-Powers have going for them is that FN continues to refine the design even now - redesigned slide stops, better frames, etc. If you are really going to shoot the Hi-Powers, the FNs are worth the money. If you'll never put 6,000 rounds on a Hi-Power, though, the clones are a great value.
 
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