I was trained int he military...and they were indeed good featurers to have....again one of the selling point for the Beretta 92.
For me (and others) Glocks are accurate and reliable cheap plastic pistols with primitive firing functionalities....
Why do people say Glocks and other striker fired pistols are not Single Action?
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I was trained int he military...and they were indeed good featurers to have....again one of the selling point for the Beretta 92.
For me (and others) Glocks are accurate and reliable cheap plastic pistols with primitive firing functionalities....
The Lone Haranguer
Member
On a true single action mechanism, the striker would be fully cocked and the trigger would only release it. On the Glock, the striker is only partially cocked and requires the action of the trigger to complete cocking, therefore it is not a single action.
The question revolves around the definition of a single action and double action. The simplest definition of each is:
In single action guns the trigger does ONE action and that is to release the firing mechanism.
In double action guns the trigger does 2 actions the first being to retract the hammer or striker and the second is to release the hammer or striker to fire the mechanism.
The position of the striker or hammer other than not being fully retracted or cocked is inconsequential to the definition.
Thus a Glock is a double action pistol by basic definition.
In single action guns the trigger does ONE action and that is to release the firing mechanism.
In double action guns the trigger does 2 actions the first being to retract the hammer or striker and the second is to release the hammer or striker to fire the mechanism.
The position of the striker or hammer other than not being fully retracted or cocked is inconsequential to the definition.
Thus a Glock is a double action pistol by basic definition.
RobMoore
Member
Confederate
Member
I'm not fond of Glocks and believe they're inherently dangerous pistols. I have a S&W 659/5906 that are true DA. One of the greatest, most important handgun safety rules is to never touch the trigger until you're ready to fire. This is exceptionally important for Glock and other striker-fired pistols, but admittedly less so for Berettas, Sigs and S&W second- and third-generation pistols, as well as most revolvers.
I would NEVER cock my 659 and carry it that way, so why would I carry a Glock that is, if I didn't have much smarter people than me to tell me better, cocked and ready to fire.
But wait, says one, it does have a safety! Oh, really...where?
Well, it's on the trigger!
Wow, that's a safe place for it! How does that make it safer than my cocked S&W? My Smith at least still has some travel in it even when cocked. It probably would have kept me from accidentally shooting the driver of a car, like the Glock-weilding police officer who forgot the cardinal rule of keeping his finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. With Glocks there can be no lapses in judement, no mistakes. The gun is always ready to shoot, the same as any single-action pistol or any cocked DA pistol, and there's no luxury of travel in the trigger. (I'm sitting here with my cocked, unloaded 659, and I still have enough travel in the trigger to make it safer than a Glock. I'd still never carry it cocked, but neither would I carry a "cocked" Glock auto.)
Accidental discharges have skyrocketed in police departments and agencies who have switched to Glocks and similar arms, and though I don't object to the rule about keeping one's finger off triggers until ready to fire, that rule is far less relevent to those of us with DA revolvers and autos.
Glocks, in my opinion, would be much better guns if they had safeties and some travel in their triggers. In situations where I may need my weapon in an instant, I probably would have my finger on the trigger if I were using a DA revolver or my Smith auto. I certainly wouldn't if it were a Glock.
I would NEVER cock my 659 and carry it that way, so why would I carry a Glock that is, if I didn't have much smarter people than me to tell me better, cocked and ready to fire.
But wait, says one, it does have a safety! Oh, really...where?
Well, it's on the trigger!
Wow, that's a safe place for it! How does that make it safer than my cocked S&W? My Smith at least still has some travel in it even when cocked. It probably would have kept me from accidentally shooting the driver of a car, like the Glock-weilding police officer who forgot the cardinal rule of keeping his finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. With Glocks there can be no lapses in judement, no mistakes. The gun is always ready to shoot, the same as any single-action pistol or any cocked DA pistol, and there's no luxury of travel in the trigger. (I'm sitting here with my cocked, unloaded 659, and I still have enough travel in the trigger to make it safer than a Glock. I'd still never carry it cocked, but neither would I carry a "cocked" Glock auto.)
Accidental discharges have skyrocketed in police departments and agencies who have switched to Glocks and similar arms, and though I don't object to the rule about keeping one's finger off triggers until ready to fire, that rule is far less relevent to those of us with DA revolvers and autos.
Glocks, in my opinion, would be much better guns if they had safeties and some travel in their triggers. In situations where I may need my weapon in an instant, I probably would have my finger on the trigger if I were using a DA revolver or my Smith auto. I certainly wouldn't if it were a Glock.
REAPER4206969
Member
Beautiful post Steve.
REAPER4206969
Member
*facepalm*
Then you are poorly trained.
Well said Confederate....
I carry my Bersa Thunder 40 with one in the pipe without the slightest worry about the trigger....and without need for special hard shell holsters..
I still have to find someone that can really tell me what are the advantage of a Glock compared to a DA/SA pistol....I still cannot find no one...
Safety?? No...
Realibility?? Nope..
Weight...not even that....
What then??
I carry my Bersa Thunder 40 with one in the pipe without the slightest worry about the trigger....and without need for special hard shell holsters..
I still have to find someone that can really tell me what are the advantage of a Glock compared to a DA/SA pistol....I still cannot find no one...
Safety?? No...
Realibility?? Nope..
Weight...not even that....
What then??
REAPER4206969
Member
The Glock is 100% safe.
Glock is the world wide standard for auto pistol reliability and durability.
Glock's are the lightest pistols in their class.
Size efficiency/capacity/weight/ease of use/ease of maintenance/reliability/durability/corrosion resistance/safety/accuracy/consistent short reset trigger/excellent customer service/readily available supply of factory and aftermarket parts and accessories/Etc.
That's about the funniest Glocknut post by REAPER yet, and that's saying something. Not funny in a good way.
I hope I'm nowhere near any range where REAPER is. I like to make sure that anyone who EVER thinks of ANY firearm as 100% safe is at least 50% farther away from me than the maximum range of whatever round that gun fires.
I hope I'm nowhere near any range where REAPER is. I like to make sure that anyone who EVER thinks of ANY firearm as 100% safe is at least 50% farther away from me than the maximum range of whatever round that gun fires.
REAPER4206969
Member
The U.S. military gives little to no handgun training. I'm a huge fan of the Beretta 92 series BTW.
REAPER4206969
Member
It is mechanically impossible for the Glock to fire without its trigger being pressed from its center, fully to the rear.
As any other quality SA/DA pistol..as AmrmedBear said, no firearm is 100% safe...
Who establish that?? You can say the same thing about the Beretta 92 which has a way larger share of the market for military use
Same weight as a FN 40 (on top of my head) or other plolymer frame SA/DA pistols......the weight has to do because of their polymer frame not because their firing mechanism...
FN beats it in capacity and many others are equal
Size efficiency....in what regard?? A Bersa Thunder 9 is more compact with the same capacity and barrel length...
Ease of maintenance....again others are considered at the top as well (The Beretta 92 for example)
All other factors have nothing to do with the firing action..
So I'm still waiting....I understand driking the Kool Aid but I need concrete answers...
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However I want to avoid dragging this for pages...
As I said before, I recognize Glock good accuracy and reliability...and I know about their excellent Customer Service
But please do not tell me that their firing mechanism is superior or on par in functionality and safety with a quality DA/SA because it isn't....period...no amount of kool aid and debate can change that.
As I said before, I recognize Glock good accuracy and reliability...and I know about their excellent Customer Service
But please do not tell me that their firing mechanism is superior or on par in functionality and safety with a quality DA/SA because it isn't....period...no amount of kool aid and debate can change that.
christcorp
Member
saturn; I agree with you on not needing to pay a lot for a good SA/DA type weapon. I too have a CZ-82, and think it's a great gun. I also have FEG, Walther, and a number of others. I was simply mentioning the Sig as a more modern weapon used widely. And as I mention in my previous post, I'm not bashing the Glock. I already said I think it's lot a lot of good attributes. But for law enforcement/military, I think it's very bad. I personally won't have one. I've shot quite a few. They are indeed nice. But if it doesn't have a true double action capability, which includes the capability of a second strike, without having to chamber another round, then I won't have one for practical use. It's a waste and dangerous. I rarely ever carry my Springfield 1911A1 any longer. But at least it has an external hammer if needed. Glocks are nice, but they definitely aren't the future of handguns. And the ONLY reason they are in the hands of law enforcement officers is because of economics. I know of 5 police departments; city, county, and state in 3 different states, that specifically chose the glock of the sig because of price. It was the only way they were going to be able to afford to upgrade. Of course, there's a lot of perception out there by a lot of ignorant people. "If it's good enough for police, it's good enough for me". Unfortunately, they don't realize that a lot of police officers aren't too fond of the glock.
Very well said Christcorp.
Serious firearm enthusiasts, recognize the good things about Glock...reliability, weight, accuracy...we admit that....what is wrong is when Glock fans convince themselves that a Glock is actually functionally superior to a SA/DA firearms which is not...from any angle you want to look at it...we are rational recognizing the good things, "they" are irrational not recognizing the shortcomings of their pet pistol...I do not have much experience with police but I know as fact that quite few of them absolutely hate it...they have to suck it up because is their standard issue.
Serious firearm enthusiasts, recognize the good things about Glock...reliability, weight, accuracy...we admit that....what is wrong is when Glock fans convince themselves that a Glock is actually functionally superior to a SA/DA firearms which is not...from any angle you want to look at it...we are rational recognizing the good things, "they" are irrational not recognizing the shortcomings of their pet pistol...I do not have much experience with police but I know as fact that quite few of them absolutely hate it...they have to suck it up because is their standard issue.
REAPER4206969
Member
Serious shooters understand the superiority of a consistent trigger pull.
...................which is not an exclusive feature of Glocks.....
You see where the problem is?? We do not like Glock so we are not serious shooters?? Do you recognize your irrational argument???
Go and tell some of the 1911 fans at my range, winners of several matches (people that shoot EVERY FREAKING DAY) and visceral haters of Glocks that they are not serious shooters and wait for their response.....
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REAPER4206969
Member
Did I say it was?
See my sig?
Hey, thanks to whoever posted that animation of how Glocks work! I appreciate that, I wondered how they work.
Now, I have a question. I'm still fairly green when it comes to guns so bear with me. If I understood the animations correctly, if you had a round in the chamber and you pulled the trigger, and for some reason the primer didn't fire off, pulling the trigger a SECOND time on the same round, would not result in another primer strike. Right?
Does this matter at all? Like say, if you had a dud or something, is there any advantage to giving it another stab with the firing pin? Or would the primer already be too badly dented for it to do any good, after the first strike?
Just curious... Also what is the accepted best course of action if you pull the trigger and there is no kaboom? Pull again, or wait a bit then clear the round by racking the slide?
Just wondering if there is any reason why the trigger needing to be reset by the slide being racked would ever be considered a problem, from a practical standpoint. I don't own any Glocks and have no stake in this argument, just curious.
Now, I have a question. I'm still fairly green when it comes to guns so bear with me. If I understood the animations correctly, if you had a round in the chamber and you pulled the trigger, and for some reason the primer didn't fire off, pulling the trigger a SECOND time on the same round, would not result in another primer strike. Right?
Does this matter at all? Like say, if you had a dud or something, is there any advantage to giving it another stab with the firing pin? Or would the primer already be too badly dented for it to do any good, after the first strike?
Just curious... Also what is the accepted best course of action if you pull the trigger and there is no kaboom? Pull again, or wait a bit then clear the round by racking the slide?
Just wondering if there is any reason why the trigger needing to be reset by the slide being racked would ever be considered a problem, from a practical standpoint. I don't own any Glocks and have no stake in this argument, just curious.
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