Why I don't trust a Glock

[Loosedhorse]

Just wondering how many people here have dropped a firearm.

I have. Right on concrete. Luckily, it was Glock, so it went from ugly, to ugly...but now with character!

Just because you dropped it doesn't mean you were being careless.

When I dropped mine, I was careless, or at least not careful enough (same thing?). I'm not sure I can easily think of dropped-gun scenarios that wouldn't be my fault. Well. Unless the guy throwing me a gun made a bad throw of course.

However it is second nature to try to catch whatever you dropped.

Then I must have third nature: I pull my hands away, and try to "hop" my feet apart, away from the drop-zone, too. Knives will teach you things.

Maybe get yourself a blue plastic training gun, and practice letting it hit the floor? (Of course, an "unloaded" Glock works, too, as I found out. But you might drift the sights. )

 

[Deaf Smith]

I have shooting buds who are Policemen and Reserve Cops. The number of accidental discharge stories they have with Glocks was enough to convince me I did not want a Glock.

Or any pistol with a Glock type trigger.

Like double action revolvers, this SIG has a long, heavy, double action pull. Which is why I got one and I think this configuration, decocker, no external safeties, and long double action first shot, (or I can thumb cock it) is the way to go for a service auto pistol.


View attachment 574459

Just get the NY-1 trigger of the Glock if you are that afraid of it.

And BTW, that 'decocker' on the SIG, if you forget to 'decock' it will get you to holster a cocked pistol with a short trigger pull (and light one for that matter.)

I have both Sig 229 and 239 so I know them well and what can happen if you fail to train right with them.

Deaf

 

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I agree with Slamfire1. Double action at least on the first pull makes me feel the safest.
Just for kicks here's a video of some guy shooting himself in the leg with a 1911.
http://youtu.be/zYvAxLX6OzE

I do carry a 1911 sometimes but mostly I go with double action revolvers.

 

[DT Guy]

A long double action trigger pull for the first shot is a hardware solution to a software problem. If you are contacting the trigger enough that a light trigger would have gone off, you are by no means safe by changing to a heavy trigger-although you have likely slowed your first reactive shot, and increased your chances of missing your target and hitting an innocent; not exactly my idea of 'safer.' (There's a reason that people who train to hit small targets quickly don't prefer 11 pound trigger pulls.....)

Larry

 

[daytodaze]

Time for a blackhawk down reference?

*shows index finger* This is my safety

 

[DoggerDan]

I gleaned three things from this:

1. Hammer bars/firing pin locks are good things.

2. Do not attempt to catch a falling weapon! Let the hammer bar/firing pin interlock do their job.

3. Cocked and locked is foolish for DA pistols. Let that long, hard trigger pull be another safety. <--- More from the video someone posted of the guy who shot himself in the leg.

 

[ForumSurfer]

However it is second nature to try to catch whatever you dropped.

Not after you get stitches from catching a falling knife. After that, second nature is raising your hands in the air and moving your toes away. If I drop something like a knife, rifle or a handgun; I backup and let it fall.

3. Cocked and locked is foolish for DA pistols. Let that long, hard trigger pull be another safety. <--- More from the video someone posted of the guy who shot himself in the leg.

Not if there is a manual safety or some other safety device. People have carried 1911's cocked and locked for years.

And BTW, that 'decocker' on the SIG, if you forget to 'decock' it will get you to holster a cocked pistol with a short trigger pull (and light one for that matter.)

I agree!

I've never once heard of a Negligent Discharge, Accidental Discharge, Magical Discharge, Divine Discharge or any other kind of Discharge from a Glock that wasn't somehow caused by a finger on the trigger.

Now I carry glocks and other pistols with no external safeties, but I'll be the first to admit that the statement above is untrue. Cheap or worn holsters can get in the trigger guard and cause the trigger to be depressed. It can happen. It is still a user induced error that is completely unavoidable with common sense, but it is still something that can happen without a finger. It isn't a problem limited to glocks, though.

It all goes back to software problems that can't be fixed with hardware. Sure, you can add extra levels of safety...but if you fix the software from the start all of this becomes a non issue.

 

[MachIVshooter]

1. A falling knife has no handle.
2. A falling gun has 1,000,000 triggers.

All too true.

I'll just add:

A pissed off cat has 87 paws with 240 claws each.

 

[Mainsail]

I like Glocks.
I like handguns.
I dislike the inept touching them.

 

[ATLDave]

This strikes me as an example of one of those times when maybe an external safety ain't so extraneous. I'm not saying the lack of one makes Glocks bad or dangerous. But they do only require one error - a hooked trigger - to go off. A pistol with an external safety requires two errors - a hooked trigger and a flipped safety - to do the same thing.

Same critism applies to revolvers, but the DA pull is usually a heck of a lot heavier and longer. Some slicked up target guns are an exception, but surely you wouldn't have one of those loaded at home...

 

[Hizzoner]

Sorry to be OT but I almost blew coffee out my nose at " if your booger hook isn't on the bang switch, it can NEVER go off."

 

[Walking Dead]

Idiot would probably try to catch a falling knife too.

 

[againstthagrane]

this thread is really grasping at straws. you don't trust glocks because they go off when they pull the trigger? lmao!

 

[againstthagrane]

Idiot would probably try to catch a falling knife too.

this happened to me while i was chopping onions about 3 hours ago and not really paying attention. i just jumped back and let my beautiful $180 shun santoku hit the ground .
better than trying to catch it though cuz it was razor sharp. but if i did and it cut me i would never trust shun knives again.

 

[KAS1981]

I see the "why I don't carry a Glock" discussion come up from time to time.

It has yet to make sense to me.

 

[Mick45]

Cominolli Safety

Why not put a Cominolli Safety on it? Joe Cominolli makes a "1911 like" thumb safety for glock pistols. I have used one on a g27 I owned and they are marvelous devices. Good luck in your handgunning, Mick

 

[GreenSkyy87]

You know what's funny is that I don't even use the safety on any carry gun except for the 1911.

Last thing I want to do in a life or death situation where seconds count it to forget to flick off the safety. It is second nature with the 1911, but no other safety systems out there that I know of are as easy to access as the 1911.

 

[RevDerb]

I can find an apparently rational reason to not like anything that I choose not to like.

 

[ATLDave]

You know what's funny is that I don't even use the safety on any carry gun except for the 1911.

Last thing I want to do in a life or death situation where seconds count it to forget to flick off the safety. It is second nature with the 1911, but no other safety systems out there that I know of are as easy to access as the 1911.

How about all the other pistols that have the safety in the same orientation (down for bang) and same location? CZ, for example, or EAA/Witness/Tanfoglio? Or Browning Hi-Power, IIRC. Anything where you ride the safety with your grip makes "forgetting the safety" a non-issue.

 

[Sulaco]

Yes, I too much prefer handguns (and any gun in general) which either, A) doesn't work at all or B) is so difficult to use that it's basically not usable. Otherwise someone might get hurt!

 

[Purgatory]

Now I carry glocks and other pistols with no external safeties, but I'll be the first to admit that the statement above is untrue. Cheap or worn holsters can get in the trigger guard and cause the trigger to be depressed. It can happen. It is still a user induced error that is completely unavoidable with common sense, but it is still something that can happen without a finger. It isn't a problem limited to glocks, though.

Just a friendly challenge, here.

Can you cite a reference for your opinion on this? Maybe an article or some proof that this has actually happened?

I only ask because I have tested, many times, many ways, the Glock trigger safety and come to the conclusion that it's 'Highly' unlikely that something can get:

1. into the wide trigger guard 'enough' to fully depress the trigger enough to discharge the gun. (We're talking factory trigger weights here. No lightweight competition triggers.)

OR

2. into the wide trigger guard at the 'correct angle' to depress the small safety on the trigger and 'maintain' that angle while depressing the trigger straight back enough to discharge the firearm.

Remember this would have to be an object flexible enough to accidentally find its way into the trigger guard from the side and, somehow, have the stability to depress a ~5 lb trigger while maintaining the correct angle to do this 'straight back' all at the same time.

If you can present convincing proof, then you will be helping me and any others who are unaware of that danger.

I have put an unloaded Glock into my pants Mexican style and tried to completely pull the trigger through my pants, tried to hang the trigger with string (thread to twine) and many other unsuspecting items just to test the possibility of the gun ever accidentally being discharged by a random item either in the holster or some other place.

While not impossible, it is very difficult and, likewise, unlikely to line up all those things to make the gun discharge.

I would be interested to know if a tattered holster could actually accomplish this.

Always interested in good information is all.

 

[Bobson]

1. A falling knife has no handle.
2. A falling gun has 1,000,000 triggers.

Two of the wisest statements I've ever read.

 

[Owen Sparks]

I think Glocks are dangerous also but for a slightly different reason.

I read a statistic some years back that claimed that one out of five police officers shot in the line of duty were shot with a snatched service weapon. The civilian odds can't be much better. Not all gunfights happen AT seven yards, many happen within seven yards including at wrestling distance. I like a 1911 or my Springfield XD .45 with a thumb safety for that reason.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Can you cite a reference for your opinion on this? Maybe an article or some proof that this has actually happened?

I would be interested to know if a tattered holster could actually accomplish this.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=584764

edit:: see this post for specific pictures: http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7213180&postcount=12

It took several things to happen. Negligent user + faulty equipment + continued carelessness + persistent force = ooops.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still blaming the user...not the glock (or the khar, or the s&W m&p or any of the other high quality handguns with no manual safeties). It took heaping amounts of negligence, carelessness and foolishness combined, squared and multiplied.

I've also tried to see if it could happen out of curiosity. I was able to pull the trigger by putting an unholsted ____ in my pocket, intentionally hooking the trigger through the trigger guard through my gym pants with a metal hanger on the wall in my garage and simply stooping down. I've also simulated that worn holster story by manually shoving the leather in there. It took quite a bit of force, but it can happen.

Unlikely? Yep, very. It is possible to happen. Pretty easy fix, just use a holster that covers the trigger guard. I've never been a pocket carry fan so good holsters and good belts are already in the closet. I keep a high noon holster in the car for those times when I need a quick slip in the pants holster. It does the job but isn't comfortable for all day carry.

But to each his own. YMMV

 

[Bobson]

I think Glocks are dangerous also but for a slightly different reason.

I read a statistic some years back that claimed that one out of five police officers shot in the line of duty were shot with a snatched service weapon. The civilian odds can't be much better. Not all gunfights happen AT seven yards, many happen within seven yards including at wrestling distance. I like a 1911 or my Springfield XD .45 with a thumb safety for that reason.

You really think a manual safety is so much of a complicated mechanism that only someone well-trained with the weapon will be able to manipulate it?

The reason so many officers are killed with their own weapon is because of poor training, or not enough of it, and LE agencies know that very well. The only other thing responsible is complacency.

History shows a cycle in law enforcement. Every x number of years, training budgets drop to certain levels. Immediately thereafter, officer deaths increase. Then, training budgets are raised, and officer deaths decrease. Over time, complacency sets in. People at the top marvel at the success of their officers, and decide to save money by cutting the training budget. Officer deaths and injuries begin to increase. And so on.

Each cycle is about a decade or so, and large agencies nationwide have acknowledged it as an irrefutable truth since the early '80s.

I've had to study numerous officer deaths, and officer complacency and/or negligence is almost always (around 75% of the time) a factor.