Why is it ball?

[BruM]

As in, “Caliber .45, Ball,” why is it called ball when its not?

 

[cyclopsshooter]

the gubmint said so

 

[W.E.G.]

Sort this out, and get back to us with a summary.

http://www.google.com/search?q=ball...n_bar&ct=timeline-navbar&cd=3&ved=0CHgQywEoBA

 

[LiveLife]

In the military, all the "ball" ammo was FMJ (Full Metal Jacket over lead core) and we used it as nickname to distinguish from AP (Armor Piercing) and Tracer rounds. That's all I can contribute.

 

[Oyeboten]

U.S. Frankfurt Arsenal and other .30-'06 Ammunition was also refered to as 'Ball'...


This has puzzled me also...given, of course, that at one time, Bullets were 'Balls' of Lead, but, once they had ceased to be Balls as such, why continue to call them 'Ball'?

 

[stu454]

In a field where a .357 bore is called a thirty-eight (.38 Special) and a .400 bore is called a thirty-eight (.38-40 or .38 WCF) how can you expect any semblance of logic?

Oh, and a .429 bore is called a forty-four.

I could do this for hours........................

 

[silversport]

I thought it was a carry over from the day when the bullet was a ball (as in musket ball)...
Bill

 

[PT1911]

then explain a maxi BALL to me... LOL... none of it makes sense, I came to terms with that a while back... a friend and I were actually talking about the confusion caused by cartridge names and REnames causing worlds of confusion. 9mm luger, 9mm parabellum, 9x19.....7mm express and 280...etc... he actually had a guy accuse him of recommending the wrong ammo for his Ruger 9mm pistol because the ammo said 9mm Luger on the box. Sir, you are in luck, that particular ammo will, in fact, work in that gun. You got lucky this time!!!!

Ball ammo=fmj

 

[dom1104]

Ball Powder?

 

[10X]

This is a carryover name from long ago.

In muzzle loading days the projectile was either a sphere (ball) or shot (pellets).

Ball became the government designated name for the basic projectile for military cartridges. Later added were armor piercing, tracer, incendiary, etc.

A long standing traditional name.

 

[Eightball]

In a field where a .357 bore is called a thirty-eight (.38 Special) and a .400 bore is called a thirty-eight (.38-40 or .38 WCF) how can you expect any semblance of logic?

.38 was called that because it was the outside diameter of the original heeled bullet, IIRC, but still the same diameter barrel. Many old .36 cal Colt Navy revolvers were converted to .38 of some manner later on, IIRC. .38 Special works the same way as .38 S&W vs. .38 Short v. .38 Long, etc, also.

I think .38-40 may have been a (closer to) .38 projectile over 40 grains of black powder originally, until technology worked things out a little differently; or perhaps so named so that people wouldn't get ".40-40" confused with ".44-40". Dunno, though.

There IS logic to it all if you look hard enough.

 

[KenW.]

Its so we old guys don't get confused.

 

[stu454]

IIRC the .38-40 projectile is around .401 or thereabouts.

I may be wrong; it's happened before

 

[gwnorth]

One of the earliest conical bullets was the mini ball (or really Minie ball invented by the frenchman Claude Etienne Minié). Since it was invented in an era of round shot muskets, muzzle loader shot was still referred to as ball ammo, and Minie's invention got altered to "mini ball" in the US, even though at .58 caliber (a common size for the round at the time of the civil war) it was hardly tiny. But the name Minie sounded like mini, so it stuck.

The term ball ammo for a long time simply referred to any solid shot projectile. Now it pretty much refers to FMJ or TMJ rounds.

 

[1911Tuner]

Ballistic. Root word...Ball.

The .38-40 used a .401 caliber, 180-grain bullet loaded with 38 grains of black powder...aka .38 WCF...or Winchester Center Fire. It shared a basic case with the .44-40...which was a .427 caliber 205-grain bullet loaded with 40 grains black powder.

The .44-40/.44 WCF has probably accounted for more Whitetail deer than the .30-30 Winchester...and that's a buncha Bambis.

Minie' is pronounced Meen-Yay.

Carry on!

 

[Oyeboten]

Maybe the Military merely wanted to be spoken of as having Balls, rather than having Spitzers, Boat-Tails, Conicals, RNFMJ, etc.

 

[WardenWolf]

Those who say round shot was called "ball" are, I think, mistaken. I believe it was just called "shot" at that time. It was actually "Minié boll", as I recall, with boll being the French word for bullet. The actual translation, then, was the "Minié bullet". Of course, this got bastardized, and became the Miniball. Over time this got shortened, and "ball ammo" became the term for any elongated projectile, as opposed to round shot.

 

[wilkersk]

I once made the mistake of going to a gun shop and asking for .45acp military "ball" ammo. The guy behind the counter said he didn't have any military "ball" ammo.

At the time, I didn't know FMJ from JHP. I only new that the memo I got said that I had to have military style ball ammo to shoot at the base pistol range.

I left the gunshop with a box of what looked to me like the same stuff I'd put in the magazine of the 1911 I shot when qualifying a few short months previously.

Since then, I tend to spend little time in gunshops, I know what I'm gonna buy ahead of time, and just point so as not to confuse the help.

 

[twofifty]

In a field where a .357 bore is called a thirty-eight (.38 Special) and a .400 bore is called a thirty-eight (.38-40 or .38 WCF) how can you expect any semblance of logic?

Oh, and a .429 bore is called a forty-four.

I could do this for hours........................

You call the .429 bore a forty-four, I call it a Cobra-Jet.

 

[Oyeboten]

Hi Mike the Wolf,


Ye'd mention'd -

Those who say round shot was called "ball" are, I think, mistaken. I believe it was just called "shot" at that time. It was actually "Minié boll", as I recall, with boll being the French word for bullet. The actual translation, then, was the "Minié bullet". Of course, this got bastardized, and became the Miniball. Over time this got shortened, and "ball ammo" became the term for any elongated projectile, as opposed to round shot.

Wow...good call...


Very interesting.

 

[twofifty]

Those who say round shot was called "ball" are, I think, mistaken. I believe it was just called "shot" at that time. It was actually "Minié boll", as I recall, with boll being the French word for bullet. The actual translation, then, was the "Minié bullet". Of course, this got bastardized, and became the Miniball. Over time this got shortened, and "ball ammo" became the term for any elongated projectile, as opposed to round shot.

Sorry Mike, but there is no boll word in French, per my dictionary.

The French word boule is used to describe a sphere, such as used in pool or snooker, also a bowling ball, but 'boule' is not used in the context of firearms, artillery, or siege catapults, etc.

A French word somewhat related to the subject matter is boulet = cannonball. This usage of 'boulet' goes back to the days of smoothbore land and naval artillery.
Notice however how the French word 'boulet' is close to the English word 'bullet'.

btw, the Minie balls I saw on display at Gettysburg look fearsome indeed, as did the surgeon's amputation kit that was shown next to them.

 

[vaupet]

The french word for bullet is "balle", and it is unpronouncable in english because you don't know the proper "a" vowel.

peter

 

[Vern Humphrey]

"Ball" was the term used to distinguish the single projectile load from shot or blank rounds in the 18th century and earlier.

During the American Revolution, Washington ordered all cartridges (paper tubes with powder and ball) include buckshot as well. These loads were called "buck and ball." Their use persisted into the Civil War, for troops armed with smoothbores.

Nowadays, "ball" is the military term for "ordinary" ammunition, that is, not tracer, Armor Piercing, and so on.

"Subadar Prag Tawari, bidding them load with ball
Led a dozen rifles up under the village wall."
-- Rudyard Kipling

 

[MCgunner]

I thought it was a carry over from the day when the bullet was a ball (as in musket ball)...

And, also, that's where the term "round" comes from, round ball. Even revolvers of the civil war period shot round ball. Then, this guy named "Minie", pronounced 'Minay', invented a conical that loaded quick and was accurate and had longer range. It's a conical bullet with a flair skirt at the rear to expand into the rifling upon firing. The bullet itself is slightly smaller than groove diameter so that it loads easily. The "maxiball" is a knock off of the term "mini ball" referring to the Minie. It's basically a bigger version.

Anyway, "ball" ammo is milspec ammo now days and is also known as "FMJ". It exists due to the "rules of war". It does help finicky pistols feed better, though.

 

[Cosmoline]

It was actually "Minié boll", as I recall, with boll being the French word for bullet. The actual translation, then, was the "Minié bullet". Of course, this got bastardized, and became the Miniball. Over time this got shortened, and "ball ammo" became the term for any elongated projectile, as opposed to round shot.

The French use the word "Balle" for their military rounds. As in 8mm Balle M. I'm sure that's the same word they used for musket "balle." English and American military called their ammunition "ball" because of musket ball, and the name just remained long after conicals and cartridges. There's no link between "balle" and "ball" as far as I know, other than referring to the same round shape.

I believe the French still call any bullet "balle," not just military rounds. Just like they call any long gun a "fusil." They don't seem to be as concerned with technicalities as much as Americans. I suppose it translates as "gun," but I don't know that they distinguish the types (rifle, shotgun, smooth rifle) let alone the actions as much as we do.