Why is the 45-70 so popular?

[Llama Bob]

I still don't buy it. By that logic a badly overbore gun ( .264 Winchester for example) should be the most efficient. Large sharp shoulder, small bore compared to case capacity should provide lots of opportunity to burn powder. But we all know they are not efficient.

One aspect of the Sebert Factor is that efficiency goes down as charge volume goes up, since it's the fraction of the powder mass that travels with the bullet. A cartridge with SF = .5 and 50 grains of powder is more efficient than one with SF = .5 and 70 grains of powder. This suggests that the most efficient cartridges should have a 40 degree or sharper shoulder, be fat, and have a small case capacity - for example things like the 6mm Dasher. This seems to more or less dovetail with reality.

Ultimately, whether you 'buy' this simulation methodology or not, it works and accurately describes the performance of the various cartridges.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I'm old enough to remember the short lived .496 RRB (Remington Reversed Bottleneck). A good concept but chambering issues kept it from gaining acceptance.
Anyone like the 45-70?

 

[jim in Anchorage]

One aspect of the Sebert Factor is that efficiency goes down as charge volume goes up, since it's the fraction of the powder mass that travels with the bullet. A cartridge with SF = .5 and 50 grains of powder is more efficient than one with SF = .5 and 70 grains of powder. This suggests that the most efficient cartridges should have a 40 degree or sharper shoulder, be fat, and have a small case capacity - for example things like the 6mm Dasher. This seems to more or less dovetail with reality.

Ultimately, whether you 'buy' this simulation methodology or not, it works and accurately describes the performance of the various cartridges.

I think short and fat are more the key here than shoulder angle. Of course a sharp angle case can be shorter, because you're not wasting space with a sloping shoulder.
Closer to the primer better ignition. That's a old bench rest rule. As far as accuracy.
But as far as more feet per second with a different shoulder? Doubtful.

 

[CraigC]

Lol I knew an old guy who said if you don't own a 30-06 you are a communist

Boooorrrrriiiiiiiing.

I don't know why you seem to have this thing about the 06, but this should go in it's own thread.

Because I judge based on merit, not myth, legend and fairy tales.

I didn't bring it up but my point remains.

 

[Hanshi]

When a BIG, HEAVY bullet moves out at a decent speed, recoil will be there. I have an older Marlin 1895 and did something I hated to do to it. I had the butt flattened from the original curvy plate and a shotgun pad added. My favorite load a 400 grain SN some 1800 fps. It was certainly tolerable with factory level loads and my handload when fired off hand or from a hunting posture, at least for a few rounds. The shotgun did make for less shoulder bruising but the recoil effect was still there. I remember shooting one deer from my elevated stand, in particular. I got him but the recoil ratcheted me about 25 degrees around the tree - the stand, that is. I only experience that result once before with a rifle; it was a heavy .350 RM load. I am a true fan of the 45/70 but recoil is it's middle name.

 

[salt&battery]

Boooorrrrriiiiiiiing.



Because I judge based on merit, not myth, legend and fairy tales.

I didn't bring it up but my point remains.

how is it possible in your universe that the 30-06 has no merit and it is based on fairy tales? are you for real? it is the best single cartridge ever designed and it will do the most 99% of hunters and shooters will ever need to get done on big game. does not mean you cant buy a different rifle for every species of medium to big game on earth like some feel the need to

 

[Gun Master]

how is it possible in your universe that the 30-06 has no merit and it is based on fairy tales? are you for real? it is the best single cartridge ever designed and it will do the most 99% of hunters and shooters will ever need to get done on big game. does not mean you cant buy a different rifle for every species of medium to big game on earth like some feel the need to

The .30-06 has got to have been the best thing since flintlocks, BUT this thread is about .45-70.
It is a grand old caliber, and packs a heck of a punch !

 

[Merle1]

The .30-06 has got to have been the best thing since flintlocks, BUT this thread is about .45-70.
It is a grand old caliber, and packs a heck of a punch !

But some people just have to push their own agenda.....

 

[midland man]

and yet ya'll are a bit afraid to admit the 243win is a super cool cartridge with a 100gr psp its a awesome cartridge like I said it killed a cow elk at 688yrds and that video is on youtube when I last looked at it!

 

[Merle1]

and yet ya'll are a bit afraid to admit the 243win is a super cool cartridge with a 100gr psp its a awesome cartridge like I said it killed a cow elk at 688yrds and that video is on youtube when I last looked at it!

what does that have to do with 45-70s?

 

[midland man]

what does that have to do with 45-70s?

because they wanted to argue about their famed 308's and 30-06's go back and read the comments!!

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Boooorrrrriiiiiiiing.


Ag
Because I judge based on merit, not myth, legend and fairy tales.

I didn't bring it up but my point remains.

Right. And when you tell me how dozens of large to very large animals I've shot under difficult real hunting circumstances (not running about in a land rover expecting the PH to cover me) thought it was a "fairy tale".

 

[jim in Anchorage]

because they wanted to argue about their famed 308's and 30-06's go back and read the comments!!

Afraid I may have started this but my first post was deleted. Oh well it's just in fun.

 

[CraigC]

Right. And when you tell me how dozens of large to very large animals I've shot under difficult real hunting circumstances (not running about in a land rover expecting the PH to cover me) thought it was a "fairy tale".

Where's that coming from? I thought we covered this???

it is the best single cartridge ever designed and it will do the most 99% of hunters and shooters will ever need to get done on big game. does not mean you cant buy a different rifle for every species of medium to big game on earth like some feel the need to

Yep, that's what 'they' say. Like I've never heard that before.

how is it possible in your universe that the 30-06 has no merit and it is based on fairy tales?

It's a jack of all trades, master of none. People like yourself parrot the above comment over and over, as if the .30-06 is the only cartridge that does what it does. When in fact there are dozens of cartridges that easily fill the same role. Sorry I'm not starry-eyed over your favorite pet cartridge, I don't drink Kool Aid.

 

[midland man]

Where's that coming from? I thought we covered this???



Yep, that's what 'they' say. Like I've never heard that before.



It's a jack of all trades, master of none. People like yourself parrot the above comment over and over, as if the .30-06 is the only cartridge that does what it does. When in fact there are dozens of cartridges that easily fill the same role. Sorry I'm not starry-eyed over your favorite pet cartridge, I don't drink Kool Aid.

yep the 243win has the capability with neck up shots and 100gr bullets can do it too!! i'm sure most will agree!!

 

[Merle1]

yep the 243win has the capability with neck up shots and 100gr bullets can do it too!! i'm sure most will agree!!

You are another one who can't stay on topic!

 

[midland man]

You are another one who can't stay on topic!

and I noticed you didn't state that to the others who didn't stay on topic either so why is that, you afraid they may say something!

 

[Merle1]

and I noticed you didn't state that to the others who didn't stay on topic either so why is that, you afraid they may say something!

I did, but you weren't paying attention to that either, were you?

 

[midland man]

I did, but you weren't paying attention to that either, were you?

lol you weren't as strong about it to them as you were to me!

 

[Merle1]

lol you weren't as strong about it to them as you were to me!

That's because you were the most ridiculous about it.

 

[salt&battery]

because they wanted to argue about their famed 308's and 30-06's go back and read the comments!!

what does what you said have to do with 45/70's?

 

[Newtosavage]

No disrespect to 45/70 lovers, but I have no idea why anyone today would choose this cartridge unless they were just a masochist with no awareness of ballistics, or they are simply a hopeless romantic. I still carry and use my pre-64 Winchester 30-30 for sentimental reasons. But at least it doesn't beat the hell out of me. LOL

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

No disrespect to 45/70 lovers, but I have no idea why anyone today would choose this cartridge unless they were just a masochist with no awareness of ballistics, or they are simply a hopeless romantic. I still carry and use my pre-64 Winchester 30-30 for sentimental reasons. But at least it doesn't beat the hell out of me. LOL

It is one of the best legal deer cartridges in several states and it can be loaded with a wide variety of bullet weights and power levels.

 

[Llama Bob]

No disrespect to 45/70 lovers, but I have no idea why anyone today would choose this cartridge unless they were just a masochist with no awareness of ballistics, or they are simply a hopeless romantic.

Despite the fanaticism for the fast small bores, there is plenty of reason to be in a medium or big bore on larger game. More than a century of experience now shows they just work better. As far as big bores go, the .45-70 is a pretty tame one. Certainly in SAAMI loadings.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Despite the fanaticism for the fast small bores, there is plenty of reason to be in a medium or big bore on larger game. More than a century of experience now shows they just work better. As far as big bores go, the .45-70 is a pretty tame one. Certainly in SAAMI loadings.

I had no idea Elmer keith posted here