gandog56
Member
My 30 year old Lee Challenger press just keeps chugging along.
Why is the Lee so CHEAP!
- Thread starter AzBuckfever
- Start date
- Status
mcdonl
Member
Well, I am slightly below a causal handloader. I am a novice handloader and I am thankful that someone like me does not need to pay for the same quality as a small commercial loader.
budiceman
Member
Like wise!
Well, I have had an RCBS Rockchucker and Lee "kit", and my Lee works just fine. It isn't large enough for .300 Wea Mag, but I no longer fire .300 Wea Mags. Aside from that fact, about the best summers of reloading I ever experienced (heck most fun I eve' had outsida-marriage) was using my "Lee Loader" in .223 Rem back 24 years ago:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...230102&cm_ite=0003091210526a&_requestid=76018
That was just plain fun!
Geno
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...230102&cm_ite=0003091210526a&_requestid=76018
That was just plain fun!
Geno
AzBuckfever
member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2009
- Messages
- 157
Now that's thinking out side the question. Not cheap, affordable
jcwit
member
First the word "cheap" is wrong, value may be a better word and value for money spent a better phrase.
Alu., plastic, and poor quality steel, and implying the product is inferior is also off base. Being made from aluminum, does that mean your high priced camera is made from cheap material? Or how about your new auto/truck with all the cheap cast pot metal parts, many of which you trust your life with, they're also below quality?
Plastic a low quality material? See above about aluminum. Also consider all the plastic material used in the health industry you also trust your life with, cheap?
Low quality steel? More than likely cold rolled steel used for dies, however with a carbide ring inserted at the wear area. Thats just good engineering, but then mayhaps some of the folks above would feel better if the manufacturer charged for higher priced steel thats not needed.
Biggest problem Lee has is little bragging rights among your friends allowing you to show off just how much mula you have to throw around. Myself I'd much rather spend enlarging my firearms collection and using reloading tools that work just fine making excellent ammo. I no longer have any need to impress anyone, that ended years ago, but I also realize many in the gun community have a desire to grow their ego.
Now some may think I do very little reloading and its true I reload less today than in the past, because of health reasons. However I do reload for over 25 calibers, and still reload over 10,000 rounds per year, all for my own use.
So in closing "cheap" is not the word, economical is more like it.
freakshow10mm
member
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,951
Difference between you and me is I load ammo for a living. Lee simply doesn't cut it any way you slice it. A company that uses a ceiling fan chain to operate the powder measure is not a company I take seriously. That's not innovation, that's being a cheap ass.
Quality is a tolerance stack. If you are using cheap, inferior components and materials, your end product will be cheap and inferior. You can't polish a turd.
I started handloading with Lee equipment. It was great to learn on. Then as I got more and more experience and loaded more and more ammunition I quickly realized how inferior Lee was to the other brands on the market. I sold all my Lee stuff and went with other more quality manufacturers. The only thing with "Lee" on it in my equipment list is the universal decapping die I've had from the beginning.
I don't base my opinion on reading things on the internet, it's personal experience I'm speaking from. I've used equipment from all the manufacturers and the bottom line is Lee never made the cut.
Quality is a tolerance stack. If you are using cheap, inferior components and materials, your end product will be cheap and inferior. You can't polish a turd.
I started handloading with Lee equipment. It was great to learn on. Then as I got more and more experience and loaded more and more ammunition I quickly realized how inferior Lee was to the other brands on the market. I sold all my Lee stuff and went with other more quality manufacturers. The only thing with "Lee" on it in my equipment list is the universal decapping die I've had from the beginning.
I don't base my opinion on reading things on the internet, it's personal experience I'm speaking from. I've used equipment from all the manufacturers and the bottom line is Lee never made the cut.
I try to always post the caveat to let your actual shooting needs and budget dictate the hardware you buy.
While I appreciate your input Freakshow, surely you would have to allow that the vast majority of us weekend reloaders do not have the unique needs that you do as a full-on manufacturer?
I and many (most) others like me have absolutely NO need for the kind of capacity (and expense) you are able or need to undertake to keep up with your company's demand for ammo. I would suspect that you are not using two hundred staff on Lee whack-a-mole loaders on your assembly line? lol
For a lot of us 'average' hobby shooters however, Lee products will last several lifetimes and still be churning out safe, reliable and accurate ammo for our kids and grandkids.
While I appreciate your input Freakshow, surely you would have to allow that the vast majority of us weekend reloaders do not have the unique needs that you do as a full-on manufacturer?
I and many (most) others like me have absolutely NO need for the kind of capacity (and expense) you are able or need to undertake to keep up with your company's demand for ammo. I would suspect that you are not using two hundred staff on Lee whack-a-mole loaders on your assembly line? lol
For a lot of us 'average' hobby shooters however, Lee products will last several lifetimes and still be churning out safe, reliable and accurate ammo for our kids and grandkids.
Nate1778
Member
My Loadmaster just turned 10,000 rounds old and still using all the original parts. I like it and it makes ammo fast. Value for the money is great, don't plan on manufacturing ammo for a living so I am content. Are there better presses out there, I am sure, but you know ignorance is bliss..........
Glock20
Member
I have to agree with jcwit, cheap is not the best choice of words. First word that comes to me is bargain when thinking of Lee.
Freakshow, of course few if any commercial loaders use Lee presses, they were never designed nor intended for this purpose. A 1050 was designed for this and priced accordingly.
I own Lee, RCBS and have a LnL AP and IMO all are great presses & dies and have served me well. Each has a place on my bench.
Come to think about it, I spent less than half as much for a Lee 4 die set than I did for a Redding comp seating die alone. That's a bargain.
Freakshow, of course few if any commercial loaders use Lee presses, they were never designed nor intended for this purpose. A 1050 was designed for this and priced accordingly.
I own Lee, RCBS and have a LnL AP and IMO all are great presses & dies and have served me well. Each has a place on my bench.
Come to think about it, I spent less than half as much for a Lee 4 die set than I did for a Redding comp seating die alone. That's a bargain.
jcwit
member
Still as you youself admit its your opinion.
Kernel
Member
It’s like everything else in a free market economy. Be it a car, a house, space shuttle, or that little metal thingy that holds the eraser on the end of a pencil. Cost is a function of labor and raw materials. Lee uses less of both. Hence, lower price.
fireside44
member
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2009
- Messages
- 1,145
My Lee challenger press has reloaded thousands upon thousands of rounds since I had it, before that, it had reloaded tens of thousands of rounds for the gentleman who gave it to me. Still, there is no play in the ram.
I have loaded .300 win mags that shot sub MOA using the same press. So much for a "cheap and inferior" end product. To the hobbyist, Dillon, RCBS, Redding, etc all are subject to the law of diminishing returns. Much more money for very little or no improvement in quality of ammunition.
Glock20
Member
Point well said fireside44. It's the person operating the equipment that determines the outcome of the finished product more so than the equipment itself.
This thread is Why is Lee so Cheap (inexpensive), maybe because Mr. Lee has found the price point of delivering value for a niche of this hobby better than anyone else.
This thread is Why is Lee so Cheap (inexpensive), maybe because Mr. Lee has found the price point of delivering value for a niche of this hobby better than anyone else.
Im a rookie weekend loader, still very much in learning mode. I decided to start reloading after collecting military surplus rifles for about 2 years. Now I do it to extend my ammo budget, and because I enjoy it. I decided to buy the Lee classic cast turret press instead of the Challenger aniversary kit because I liked the idea that you can use it as a turret press OR remove the indexing rod and it becomes a single stage press. When living in a small apartment, space is at a premium, so this press works well in my situation, for the amount of ammo that I make. I love this press so far.
For the everyday workin man the Lee products just can't be beat and everybody knows it. I guess I just like cheap products that work and Lee's happen to work very well. Its just makes good since to me,Lee products have served my shooting needs very well for awhile. All of my ammo is top grade.There is no crime in out selling your competitors with products that will perform the the same function for a fraction of the price. Lee has encouraged many people including myself to get in to reloading for this reason alone "Affordability".What idiot can't understand that?
fireside44
member
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2009
- Messages
- 1,145
I've tried to fault the Lee "perfect powder measure" too many times to count. Personally, I think they should've called it the "plastic powder measure" because the construction is so cheap but I'll be damned if that thing ain't dead nuts accurate time and time again though. Thousands of powder drops, accurate every time.
There are only two lousy Lee products in my experience, the hand priming tool, which is too flimsy for much use at all, and their reloading manual. I will readily admit that their reloading manual is lousy. The rest of the book ain't bad though.
I don't know these people in your poll but they can obviously afford Dillon products and that is grand.
For the rest of us pofolks that can't afford go to the IDPA nationals its great to have Lee to fall back on.
Maybe we can meet sometime and I can show you how its done.
X-Rap
Member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2006
- Messages
- 6,657
As anybody who uses tools or hunts and fishes can tell you there are always items that will get the job done and there are others that do that and more whether adding strength and durability or simplicity of operation. There is little doubt of the Lee company's contribution to the industry but to call the rest of us Idiots because we have either upgraded or started out with a higher quality machine is a little weak.
I am happy living in the land of diminishing returns.
I am happy living in the land of diminishing returns.
Wasn't my poll. I just saw the numbers in an article.
You missed my point. I was making reference to the loaded statement.
RustyFN
Member
Damn I always heard that the Lee classic presses were made from steel railroad rails. That's scary to know that all of the trains are running on poor quality steel rails. I don't need the volume of a comercial loader. I enjoy being able to load ammo that's just as good on something that cost at least 1/3 of the so called top quality brands. I will be the first to admit that Lee isn't for everybody but I also don't thinks it's fair to tell new loaders to start with a Dillon because it's a Dillon when it's ten times more press than they will need for a long time or might never need.
ranger335v
Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2006
- Messages
- 3,797
"So, being a minimal progressive press, why is the Lee sooooo cheap at around $100 or so?"
Perhaps the better question is how the other makers can justify the out rageous prices they charge.
Lees' engineering ability is without peer in the industry. Their many tools are DESIGNED to be accurately made on CNC machinery by operators with modest skills, not highly paid machinests on older, slower, less precise machinery. A good part of competent engineering is determining where to use less costly materials.
Reloading tools are really pretty simple and there is no advantage to over building them. Any dummy could make machined stainless steel drinking straws and they would indeed be strong, but at what advantage and cost? Lee knows what he's doing.
Perhaps the better question is how the other makers can justify the out rageous prices they charge.
Lees' engineering ability is without peer in the industry. Their many tools are DESIGNED to be accurately made on CNC machinery by operators with modest skills, not highly paid machinests on older, slower, less precise machinery. A good part of competent engineering is determining where to use less costly materials.
Reloading tools are really pretty simple and there is no advantage to over building them. Any dummy could make machined stainless steel drinking straws and they would indeed be strong, but at what advantage and cost? Lee knows what he's doing.
Last edited:
freakshow10mm
member
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,951
When I started handloading, I had a Lee hand press I bought from a gun show for $20 cash. Loaded thousands of 10mm on that. Then the handle broke. Got a Lee Classic Turret as a present from my mother and started loading on that as well as added .45 ACP and 45/70 to my list.
As a casual handloader that shot local IDPA on the weekends, I went from a Lee Classic Turret press to a Dillon 550. When I got my manufacturer FFL, I used the 550 to start with and loaded as much as I could. That Dillon has about 3 million rounds loaded on it and the only thing I had to replace was the spring that returns the primer slide to position. I paid $275 shipped for it with about a half dozen conversion kits included. That press is still on my bench and I use it for smaller runs of calibers like the .38/.357, 10mm, .380, .44 Mag, .45 Colt, .32 H&R. The 9mm, .40, and .45 gets loaded on the Dillon 1050 that I just got in November. Had a learning curve to it but I've got it figured out and it runs smooth now.
Even as a casual shooter, once I got away from Lee presses, I never looked back. If I ever stop loading commercially, I won't go back to Lee.
As a casual handloader that shot local IDPA on the weekends, I went from a Lee Classic Turret press to a Dillon 550. When I got my manufacturer FFL, I used the 550 to start with and loaded as much as I could. That Dillon has about 3 million rounds loaded on it and the only thing I had to replace was the spring that returns the primer slide to position. I paid $275 shipped for it with about a half dozen conversion kits included. That press is still on my bench and I use it for smaller runs of calibers like the .38/.357, 10mm, .380, .44 Mag, .45 Colt, .32 H&R. The 9mm, .40, and .45 gets loaded on the Dillon 1050 that I just got in November. Had a learning curve to it but I've got it figured out and it runs smooth now.
Even as a casual shooter, once I got away from Lee presses, I never looked back. If I ever stop loading commercially, I won't go back to Lee.
- Status
Similar threads
