Why no modern 9x25 Mauser Type Cartridge for Auto's?

BreechFace

BreechFace

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Was thinking about my 10mm's and thought a 9x25 Mauser type cartridge in a Glock 20/40 would be pretty sweet balance. No doubt 9x25 Dillon was low hanging fruit as one can just use standard magazines and just need a barrel change and 357 Sig is hitting ~1,400fps with 125gr, whereas theoretically by the QL calcs the theoretical 9x25 Paraboomer would hist 1,600fps with 125gr. The cartridge lengths are comparable to the 10mm, so it seems it would fit peoples hands that are used to 10mm web to trigger lengths.

Obviously, 9x25 Mauser is a high pressure round at 51,500psi (??), I'm not feeling that energetic about an auto loader with that type of pressure, but what I'm speaking to is cartridge dimensions with a comparable pressure to 9mm Parabellum and 10mm Auto at 35k-38k psi.

I would figure one could fit close to 20+ rounds in a stack and a half G20 sized magazine.

QUESTION: Why do you all think this hasn't been designed by a wildcatter?

Talk about fun in a G40MOS, rolling jackrabbits, coyotes, feral pigs, etc, with a flat shooting, fast to target round like that.

QuickLOAD Calculations
Theoretical 9x25 "Paraboomer"
0.357" 158gr Hornady XTP
6.9gr Alliant Power Pistol
Muzzle Velocity = 1,300fps
Energy = 800 ft./lbs.
Pressure = 38,224psi

0.357" 125gr Sierra JSP
9.0gr Alliant Power Pistol
Muzzle Velocity = 1,600fps
Energy 685 ft./lbs
Pressure = 38,654psi


9x25mm Mauser
Bullet Diameter: 0.355" (9.02mm)
Case Length: 0.980" (24.89mm)
Base Diameter: 0.389" (9.88mm)
Neck Diameter: 0.376" (9.55mm)
Case Volume: 19.6gr H2O

10mm Auto
Bullet Diameter: 0.400" (10.16mm)
Case Length: 0.992" (25.20mm)
Base Diameter: 0.425" (10.80mm)
Neck Diameter: 0.423" (10.74mm)
Case Volume: 24.1gr H2O

357 Mag
Bullet Diameter: 0.357" (9.1mm)
Case Length: 1.29" (33mm)
Base Diameter: 0.379" (9.6mm)
Neck Diameter: 0.379" (9.6mm)
Case Volume: 26.2gr H20
 
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I don't know from where Wikipedia got that 51 500 psi maximum pressure (maximum of what, exactly?), but the only official comparable pressure data is found from CIP, as SAAMI does not list 9x25 at all.

Here bellow is a link to the CIP site - at the far right of the table in the link are listed Ptmax (maximum average pressure) and PE (mean proof pressure) in bars.
P.S. Direct comparison between SAAMI and CIP pressure data cannot be made because of the different test protocols.

https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/en/tdcc_public?page=1&cartridge_type_id=4

P.S.S. .357 Sig has both Ptmax and PE higher than 9mm Mauser (9x25).
 
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BreechFace said:
Well one could use trimmed down 9mm Winchester Magnum brass for it.

Just need someone to chamber a 6” Glock barrel for my G40
Click to expand...
As a one-off it shouldn’t be super expensive. Standard conversion barrels aren’t that bad. Add a custom reamer, custom set of loading dies, and the expense of having somebody use the reamer on the conversion barrel. I figure it’s about a $700 job give or take for the upper. Call it $1000 by the time you have dies and components. Add another g40 frame so that you can say you have a complete gun built to your specs and at $1200 your realistically sitting on a heck of a low budget custom.

And that mentality is why I have projects rather than toys. Harley project, gun project, fishing project, hunting project, all hungry for funds and time that run out before anything is complete.
 
BreechFace said:
QUESTION: Why do you all think this hasn't been designed/marketed to us?
Click to expand...
Well, the "thing" in current "carry nines" is conceal-ability, mostly expressed as compactness. So, a round that's 6mm longer than 9x19 means needing correspondingly bigger dimensions.

There's also the very real issue that there are already dozens of handgun calibers out there as is. Note how well received the 30SC has been. This despite what looks like what the market demands--9x19 performance in a 8mm french long dimension.
 
Some of you have much greater aspirations than I for this round. I’m just surprised give the easy parent cartridge available no one has attempted this. I’m thinking an adoption something similar in size to the 9x25 Dillon.
 
I had visited the wiki site for the 9X25 Mauser years ago and it listed the PSI for the 9X25 as 37,5000 PSI. And it listed the proper ballistic numbers as a 128 gr. @ 1360. I don't know where they came up with that 50,000+ figure.

I assume it never caught fire because it really doesn't offer that big of an improvement over the 9X19 or the Super.
 
Maybe I have not read this thread thoroughly enough, but it seems like 9x23mm WInchester is everything BreechFace (the OP) is looking for, and then some: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×23mm_Winchester

If the maximum chamber pressure of 9x23mm Win is too high at 55,000psi, then you are aiming at a very small target: hotter than 38 Super but not as hot as 9x23mm Winchester. The latter also has the advantage of being a bit shorter than 9x25mm. Once you get up to case lengths of an inch or so (25mm), high capacity magazines start getting awfully bulky.
 
BreechFace said:
Well one could use trimmed down 9mm Winchester Magnum brass for it.

Just need someone to chamber a 6” Glock barrel for my G40
Click to expand...

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You can only get so much performance out of a pistol before you start getting a flamethrower when shot from a 3 or 4 inch barrel.

Then you need longer barrels to do any good and that makes for larger guns and the trend is not in that direction.

If I was going to try something like this it would start with 10 mm brass and neck it down so standard 10 mm pistols could shoot it with potentially just a barrel change.
 
ilbob said:
If I was going to try something like this it would start with 10 mm brass and neck it down so standard 10 mm pistols could shoot it with potentially just a barrel change.
Click to expand...

That's the 9X25 Dillon.

The 357 Ring of Fire and conversions like the 9X23 Winchester / 38 Super require only a barrel change in the 10mm Glock. They extract just fine, but feeding is an issue because the 10mm magazines don't play well with smaller cartridges, even when modified.
 
tactikel said:
To what end? Does it provide advantages in target shooting, SD, hunting? Why would gunmakers/ammo companies spend $$$ to best the .357 Sig by 150 fps?
Click to expand...

Let me reiterate I’m not suggesting this would ever be a mainstream cartridge. It just crossed my mind and got my wheels turning, mainly due to the fact I own a large frame Glock.

I just thought it was interesting that it hadn’t been done, but @fxvr5 showed me otherwise.

That is all, I got my information to go forward with and will look into it.
 
Here is the Wiki post I was referring to in post # 11. It shows a much more reasonable 27,500 PSI number for the 9X25 Mauser round. I don't know why the numbers changed, but as we all know, Wiki is often inaccurate.

They have reported that Remington chambered the rolling block in 30-06. No, Remington never did... The 06 was a little too long and a little bit too much pressure for the #1 action to handle.
 

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The same reason there are no guns being manufactured chambered for 9mm Dillon.

Are there any guns being made in 2024 chambered for .357 SIG ?
 
C0untZer0 said:
Are there any guns being made in 2024 chambered for .357 SIG ?
Click to expand...

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