Why so many anti-NRA?

[MrLars]

Didn't the NRA sponsor all those anti-Obama ads and cause a national panic that Obama was going to take away all our guns and ammo? Didn't that fear mongering, among other things, lead to a drastic increase in the price of ammunition and guns?

Hasn't Obama turned out to be, if not pro-gun, then at least neutral or indifferent on the subject? Didn't he sign a bill allowing loaded firearms in national parks?
I can't open a magazine now without some leaflet from the NRA telling how, without donating money to them, the Man is going to come take all my guns away.


Preying on people's fears, distorting the facts, and acting like you're the only organization standing between utopia and Armageddon is, among other reasons, why I think a large swath of people are pro-gun and anti-NRA.

 

[NukemJim]

I understand there are smaller gun rights groups, but they don't have nearly as much influence in Washington.

Isn't the Supreme Court in Washington?

Maybe you have heard about a couple of cases started by a small gun rights group, they were called HELLER and MCDONALD?

But I guess those cases were not influential :banghead:

NukemJim

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Hasn't Obama turned out to be, if not pro-gun, then at least neutral or indifferent on the subject?

NO HE CERTAINLY HAS NOT!(Not shouting just emphasizing) He,his party and his supporters are demostratively anti-gun. It hasn't been the right time to push that particular agenda.

Didn't he sign a bill allowing loaded firearms in national parks?

ONLY as a compromize to get what he REALLY wanted..his credit card bill.

 

[merlinfire]

The NRA isn't perfect, but its the most influential show in town.

As to this:

Quote:
Hasn't Obama turned out to be, if not pro-gun, then at least neutral or indifferent on the subject?
NO HE CERTAINLY HAS NOT!(Not shouting just emphasizing) He,his party and his supporters are demostratively anti-gun. It hasn't been the right time to push that particular agenda.
Quote:
Didn't he sign a bill allowing loaded firearms in national parks?
ONLY as a compromize to get what he REALLY wanted..his credit card bill.

I know, you folks just can't stand not being vindicated by some sort of anti-gun measure or bill by Obama to justify all the fear-buying of 2009. Well, I for one hope you never are. It's like people saying "He just being a capitalist to cover up that he's really a socialist!" Give it a rest, people.

 

[Sam1911]

Folks, remember that we don't do politics here -- hard as that line might be to toe in RKBA discussions -- and we most certainly do not do general conservative -vs. - liberal issues like foreign policy, war & peace, social class, wealth/poverty, etc.

---

Like everything else, "NRA-Bashing" is a nuanced thing.

Some folks REALLY don't like the NRA and have many reasons (both factual and mistaken) for why they'd rather hurt it than help. Hard to really change those folks' minds, but you can probably be more or less certain that they're at least voting in the right direction -- which is the bigger picture "win" anyway.

Other folks are simply "centrists/moderates" (which usually means new to RKBA issues in general) and have questions and concerns about some of the things they see and hear from the Association. Time and again we'll jump down someone's throat so far we come out the other end -- when a much more gentle and patient response would have been vastly more effective. Not every person who questions what is said and what (appears) to be done in the name of gun owners is a troll or a basher. Kicking them all in the teeth at the earliest chance probably doesn't further our goals.

Some folks who are dedicated, life-long members are labeled as "bashers" simply because they speak up when they see things they'd like the Association to do differently. That's pretty sad and divisive. We're an Association of members and if that Association is to speak for us, it needs to know what we want said. Working out and putting the final polish our thoughts and opinions, especially on a public forum such as this, is an important part of that process.

 

[Rembrandt]

For some the glass is always half empty.....never half full.

As the old electrician use to say, some people are wired negative....some are wired positive.

 

[alsaqr]

Yep, we have another bash the NRA thread. Lots of gunowners have bought into the insane rhetoric spewed out by the bunch at red states and other sites. Then we have all of those little gun rights wannabee organizations who stay in business by bashing the NRA.

i could care less that the pro-gun candidate is a fire breathing John Brown type preacher or lesbian Wiccan physician who gives abortions.

If it there were no NRA you could not legally own an air rifle anywhere in the USA.

 

[alsaqr]

The problem with NRA is it's still mired in the poor decisions of its past and fails to support things like NFA owners.

Supporting the repeal of the Hughes amendment and the NFA are lose, lose situations for the NRA. Neither is ever going to be repealed.

 

[Sam1911]

Supporting the repeal of the Hughes amendment and the NFA are lose, lose situations for the NRA. Neither is ever going to be repealed.

Yup, and hanguns will never be legal in D.C. ... Broaden your mind, and help broaden the Association's mind as well!

(There is a time for everything. Some things can't be done until much social change has happened. But we're living in some amazing times right now. I simply won't say "never" any more.)

 

[swinokur]

If you don't want to receive mail from the NRA, you can go to their Web site and opt out. I did that and have not received a single piece of mail since.

I don't agree with everything the NRA does or has done, but I hate to think of what the status of RKBA would be right now without them. I'm thinking much worse

I sent a large donation to the Second Amendment Foundation when they filed suit in my home state of MD to get my rights to carry restored.

Do what your conscience tells you to do. I did,

 

[bnhcomputing]

Why dislike the NRA becuase they are MIA

I can't believe how many shooters are against the NRA. I do get annoyed by the mail they send me asking for money, but they have to because so many shooters refuse to participate in donating money to protect their rights. If all gun owners joined the NRA then they wouldn't have to ask for money so much. I suspect that we would have so many more gun freedoms if we all joined the NRA. Think of how powerful we would be in Washington. No politician could stand in our way.

One guy at a booth at a gun show in Atlanta got so offended when I told him I was an NRA member. He was trying to tell me how bad the NRA is. I couldn't believe this. I walked away thinking what a shame it is that gun owners can work against our gun rights like this.

Without the NRA, only police, military, and criminals would have guns! Why is this so hard to understand?

I understand there are smaller gun rights groups, but they don't have nearly as much influence in Washington.

Here is what I can tell you from my perspective: Read article here about Madison, WI. Listen to the 911 call. It is CLEAR the police were WAY OUT OF LINE! This has been almost a week since this happened. WHERE IS THE NRA? Silent.

Yes the NRA has done things in the past, but the NRA actually considered ENDORSING REID from Nevada!

The NRA is loosing gun owners because the are becoming more like the corrupt politicians and less like gun owners every day. When I see the NRA say, "We WILL stand against the police in Madison, WI and fight for your rights," then I will be a life member overnight. Until then my allegiance is with Wisconsin Carry, Inc. as they ARE actually fighting for FREEDOM!

Any questions?

 

[jimmyraythomason]

WHERE IS THE NRA? Silent.

Have they been invited? Has the court asked for their opinion? The NRA does not jump into every fray no matter how rightous. They simply do not have the resourses or even the right to do so.

The NRA is loosing gun owners because the are becoming more like the corrupt politicians and less like gun owners every day

The membership rolls are actually growing not shrinking.

 

[cavman]

I recall in 1990, thinking I had heard that the NRA membership at that time was ~4 million.

I recall sometime this year hearing that the NRA membership is ~4 million.


Are either of these numbers correct for the year in question? For a county of ~270 million now in 2010, and with gun ownership "at an all time high", I would like to see the NRA membership approach at least 5%, which would be ~13 million.

That would probably not happen. Using my made up best guessed numbers that maybe 20% tops actually are gun owners, that would only be 54 million. So if 10% of them were NRA members that would put it at around 5 million.

 

[The Sarge]

Like any family....there will be disagreements.

 

[cisco11]

Democrat voting gun owners often do not belong to the NRA. Often Democrat voting gun owners will have excuses for not joining or droping membership in the NRA.

If not for the NRA we would not have guns now.
Lifetime CONTRIBUTING NRA member!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cisco

 

[kmcintosh78]

I will also agree that they compromise too much. If I am sending money to an organization, I want them to be on the same page as my thoughts and views.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Excuses are so easy to find when one goes looking for them.

 

[NavyLCDR]

If this majority of pro-gun people don't like the NRA, but we settle for it because it's all we got (except for the Second Amendment Foundation), then maybe this majority of pro-gun people might just be right?

The NRA does very little to fight for the individual's right to carry a handgun for self defense in public. That's my gripe with them. But, hey, it's right there in their name, right? National Rifle Association. So, at least they aren't lying about it. So, in reality, my complaints about the NRA are unfounded. They do look out for the rights of rifle owners. They are such a huge success because they are willing to compromise to obtain that "success."

 

[TexasRifleman]

The NRA does very little to fight for the individual's right to carry a handgun for self defense in public.

You might take note that the name of the organization is NATIONAL Rifle Association.

Concealed or open carry is generally a STATE issue.

While the NRA does get involved in state issues it's simply not resource effective to try to get into all 50 states and do a lot of the work. That's why it's important to have local and state organizations and the NRA supports many of those groups.

Your argument that it's because the word "rifle" is in the name is silly in my opinion. The Texas State RIFLE Association spends most of it's time going after concealed carry issues here in Texas. But it's a STATE organization focused on STATE level issues.

Rifle issues tend to be at the Federal level because of all the bans and attempted bans on certain types of rifles based solely on appearance. So far we have not seen that kind of thing around handguns.

People might be able to think of all kinds of reasons to dislike the NRA but using the fact that it has "rifle" in the title, or the junk mail excuse, seems to me to be trying too hard to find a reason.

 

[rbernie]

I will also agree that they compromise too much. If I am sending money to an organization, I want them to be on the same page as my thoughts and views.

Cant fix that from the outside nearly as easily as from the inside.

 

[X-Rap]

Just on this page they are called fear mongers and compromisers. No matter what the wording of their title is they are the premier national 2A organization and over the years they have given and taken punches from presidents, rouge agencies, members of congress, TV personalities and media. I'm happy to send what I can and when they are on a Sunday news show or debating some anti I don't see compromise.

 

[evan price]

I am a member, let me say that first.

Despite the problems they are still the big dog on campus.

I'd like to speak to the "compromise being necessary" crowd.

The antis come at it with "No guns"
We gun owners come at it with "No gun regulations"

Compromise means we lose rights.

The 2A is pretty simple. RKBA shall not be infringed. No compromise.

The antis keep chipping away and asking for more, more, more.

When we compromise we lose taht much more of our rights.

There must be a line in the sand which is absolute, and that line needs to be somewhere further back than where it is now. We're pushing it back with Heller and McDonald and 48 states with some sort of CCW law but we need to keep pushing.

We need to repeal the Hughes Amendment to the Firearms Owners Protection Act. We need to repeal the 1968 Gun Control Act. We need to repeal the 1934 National Firearms Act. We need to get a leash and collar on the BATFE. We need to remove the myriad restrictions so many local governments throw up. We need to make CCW and Open Carry totally legal without special licensing or permits in 50 states. We need to stop schemes like the Illinois FOID and the Michigan "Safety inspection" registration and the California "Approved by CA DOJ" nonsense.

The NRA seems to me to want to primarily focus on the struggle for protecting the 2A, rather than the 2A itself. Without the conflict there is no need for the NRA and donations.

 

[MikeNice]

One of the reasons for me is because they are willing to support people that really do not care about RKBA and laud them as champions of our fight.

In California, the NRA awarded Assemblyman Rod Wright its “Defender of Freedom” Award.... This is the same Rod Wright who authored a bill to increase licensing fees from $3 to up to $100. Never mind the absurdity of bilking peaceable citizens of hundreds of dollars for making a constitutionally protected purchase.... The NRA’s “Defender of Freedom” in 2001 voted against gun owners 62 percent of the time, according to Gun Owners of California.

Plus their ability for compromise is astounding. To make sure that cities in NC could not sue gun makers they helped hand the anti-gun lobby many of their pet legislations.

According to the GRNC, the NRA sold North Carolinians out because “despite giving Senate President Pro Tem Marc Basnight (D-Dare, GRNC *) an ‘A’ and an endorsement, he has held their gun litigation bills hostage in the Senate. So they made a deal to include all of the gun show bill which GRNC has defeated for the last 3 years – a bill drafted by lobbyists for NC's Handgun Control affiliate, North Carolinians ‘Against Gun Violence.’ Translated, that means the NRA just got into bed with NCGV!”

The list of things that the NRA has supported that hurts gun owners is lengthy. This includes supporting making "gun crimes" federal crimes and taking them out of the hands of states. It also includes making any crime where a gun is present more more severely punished. Effectively assault with a gun in your pocket would be the same as actually assaulting the person with the gun.

I have heard and more than a little bi about what the NRA does wrong. However, I haven't heard anybody offering a better solution. Most of the other organizations I have run across are so libertarian about gun control that it borders on ridiculous.

Sometimes it seems that the NRA is the only safe middle ground. They are certainly a better choice than organizations that want to do away with restrictions against violent criminals and juveniles.

I get upset with the NRA a lot of the time. At least three or four (maybe even five or six) times a year I contemplate leaving the NRA. However, nobody has shown a better alternative.

 

[merlinfire]

bnhcomputing, I followed your link to read about what happened in Wisconsin, and that really stinks. I think there's a lot of cops out there that need to realize that they are not the Law Incarnate, but rather the enforcers of the law. Knowing and respecting the law should be their job....but apparently not all do that job well.

 

[alsaqr]

We need to repeal the Hughes Amendment to the Firearms Owners Protection Act. We need to repeal the 1968 Gun Control Act. We need to repeal the 1934 National Firearms Act.

Yep, those wonderful gun loving hacks who ran the white house and congress for years could have done some of that stuff. However, they got wrapped around the axle with feel good stuff and did nothing for our Second Amendment rights.