Why so many anti-NRA?

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Funny how people forget the AWB so soon. Without the NRA the AWB would have never been repealed. Read Obama's website, if he is not anti gun I'll eat my hat.

Disparage the NRA and rationalize it any way you want but the day the NRA goes away our gun rights go with it.
 
MikeNice said:
Most of the other organizations I have run across are so libertarian about gun control that it borders on ridiculous.

James Madison once wrote, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

I don't particularly think there is much wrong with being libertarian.
 
The NRA does many things well, and some things not so well. It's training and awareness branches are excellent. It's legislative arm has had ups and downs, but more ups recently. I think it hurts itself badly when coming out in support of 'compromise' legislation. However, I think they have learned that their base is not into that so much any more and wants more results.

It's an organization like any other - the base changes and then it takes a while for the message to get to the NRA that the base wants something else. All in all, I'd rather have them than not. However, I think we need to support multiple state and national organizations - that's the only way to keep the lobbying efforts in check and really focused on what the base wants.
 
Most of the other organizations I have run across are so libertarian about gun control that it borders on ridiculous.

Well, it's hard to be truly for pro-gun rights and not be 'libertarian' about it. They share pretty much the same underlying philosophy of freedom. Your observation of the NRA is exactly why many people think the NRA has been hypocritical in the past.
 
Why are so many anti NRA?
It's an easy answer. Many gun owners want a free ride. They want their gun rights but they are too cheap to donate a few dollars to help the cause or they won't give up the $35 for a membership. It's sad but a lot of people are parasites.
There are other gun owners that are Liberals or Democrats. For some reason they believe that they must support the Left and cannot waiver on any issue. As the Democratic Party has been historically anti gun (even though there are many pro gun Dems) these gun owners refuse to support an organization that largely promotes Conservatives. These gun owners cannot think for themselves and must toe the party line. I work with many gun owners that fall into this catagory. They don't realize that they can disagree with certain parts of their party's platform.
The NRA is constantly demonized in the media. Most of the media is Leftwing so the coverage is far from fair. If the only news you get on an organization is bad then you are very unlikely to join or even have a positive opinion of that group. I'll give you an example. The MSM constantly talks about the NRA supporting terrorists being able to buy guns even if they're on a terrorist watch list. On the surface this sounds horrible and crazy. When you dig a little deeper you learn that there are over 1 million people on this list, no laws have been broken by these people, it's almost impossible to get off of it and Americans should not lose rights because of a secret government list. I can go on and on about the media's poor reporting.
I get two NRA magazines and make a point of passing them on. Most gun owners never hear about the new laws being constantly proposed. They have no idea what "Ammunition Accountability" is or what ballistic fingerprinting is. Even if they are too cheap to sign up for the NRA they still vote and a little knowledge helps the cause. I also leave these magazines everywhere from gyms to doctor's offices.
 
Most of the other organizations I have run across are so libertarian about gun control that it borders on ridiculous.

Too much liberty is way better than too little.

It's an easy answer. Many gun owners want a free ride. They want their gun rights but they are too cheap to donate a few dollars to help the cause or they won't give up the $35 for a membership. It's sad but a lot of people are parasites.

I resent this insinuation that non-NRA members are freeloaders. I call and write my representatives, both state and federal, on a regular basis to make my wishes known. I have even traveled to my state capitol in order to talk with my representatives face to face on various RKBA issues and bills. One need not pay money to an organization to make a difference, if one is willing to take some time and do their own legwork.
 
There are several gun lobbying/legislative groups to which I donate money, but none of them has been as prominent and active as the NRA. Whether you like them or not is irrelevant... every American gun owner owes the NRA a major debt of gratitude. If it was not for the tireless efforts of this organization, our gun rights would be long gone by now.
 
Do I agree with everything they do? Nope. Don't like the constant bombardment of letters asking for money either.

However...

Without the NRA there would be no gun ownership in this country. Period.

That is why I am a member.

As for the haters who lament how the NRA has done nothing about the NFA or Hughes Amendment I have some advice: Rome wasn't built in a day. Just twenty years ago widespread concealed carry would have been considered extreme. Now it is commonplace. If we continue on the current track of incremental reform we are more likely to get to where you want to go than if the NRA and its supporters started demanding NFA reform today.

I would love to be able to buy a new machine gun, but recognize that these matters are not just legislative in nature but cultural as well. It takes time to change and we should take solace in knowing that we have the initiative and are getting stronger every day - thanks in large part to the NRA.
 
It's too bad that all gunowners don't cough up the dime a day needed to be in the NRA. Without them, we'd probably have lost our handguns way back in 1934, and certainly so in 1968. With all 70 million of us INSISTING that the NRA do whatever it takes, we'd be rid of the antigun politicians, real quick.
 
I am all for freedom when it comes to the second ammendment. What I mean by too libertarian is pretty simple to me.

When an organization says we should lift restrictons against violent felons, that is too much in my opinion. I am all for the ability of people to own firearms. If you have shown that you have a violent nature, I question your mental ability to maturely handle firearm ownership. I can not support an organization that would advocate removing restrictions against violent felons.

I also refuse to support organizations that call for restrictions against minors to be lifted. I mean, honestly, does anybody think 10 year olds should be buying hanguns?

I think it is a load of crap that I can not go to an eatery that serves alcohol with a CCH. I think it is also foolish that I can't carry in state parks, at parades, at a funeral, or any educational facility. (That literally means that any gun range teaching classes should not have guns on the premises while classes proceed.) I also think it is ridiculous that I can not carry a CCH in to any event that charges admission and requires a ticket to enter.

These are the types of things that local RKBA organizations should be focusing on. There are more issues to work on than those. Nobody adresses those issues though. Just like noody has brought suit against New Orleans and the government for confisccating legal guns. Instead it seems the organizations are either trying to protect the corporations or fighting for insane issues.

I do have to say I appreciate Grass Roots North Carolina joining the lawsuit against the state of NC's "state of emergency" gun ban.

Okay I explained what I meant. Now I'm rambling. I'll quit.
 
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You have committed felonies, and so has your mother. Most likely you were unaware of it. Felony convictions of the sort handed out today would have been ludicrous in the eyes of the Founding Fathers. Many consider a dope beef to be "violent", for instance, when Tom Jefferson would have shot anyone trying to tell him that he couldn't grow hemp.
 
When an organization says we should lift restrictons against violent felons, ... I can not support an organization that would advocate removing restrictions against violent felons. ... I also refuse to support organizations that call for restrictions against minors to be lifted. I mean, honestly, does anybody think 10 year olds should be buying hanguns?

Hmmm... do you know of some organizations that advocate removing the prohibitions against convicted violent felons? Or of any that advocate allowing children to purchase handguns? I'm not arguing for or against either case, but sometimes we overstate the case to make our objections more palatable. A few examples would be helpful -- and rememember, we're talking about the NRA primarily in this thread.

I think it is a load of crap that I can not go to an eatery that serves alcohol with a CCH. I think it is also foolish that I can't carry in state parks, at parades, at a funeral, or any educational facility. (That literally means that any gun range teaching classes should not have guns on the premises while classes proceed.) I also think it is ridiculous that I can not carry a CCH in to any event that charges admission and requires a ticket to enter.
Absolutely. NC is pretty backwards on that stuff. Strange place.

These are the types of things that local RKBA organizations should be focusing on. There are more issues to work on than those. nobody adresses those issues though.
Really? Nobody is addressing these issues? That's a shame on your state organizations, then. NRA can help with some of those cases, but having a local group get the ball rolling and carry the fight to their local representatives will go a lot further than a national organization stepping in to try to batter down state laws if the citizens of that state don't seem to be invested in those issues.

Just like noody has brought suit against New Orleans and the government for confisccating legal guns.
Ok. So this statement is completely wrong.

"After a three-year legal battle over the confiscation of lawfully owned firearms, the City of New Orleans has agreed to settle a lawsuit by the National Rifle Association (NRA) and the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF)...."

http://www.gunreports.com/news/hand...na_SAF_Second_Amendment_Foundation_856-1.html

Instead it seems the organizations are either trying to protect the corporations or fighting for insane issues.
Who is? NRA? What?

I do have to say I appreciate Grass Roots North Carolina joining the lawsuit against the state of NC's "state of emergency" gun ban.
Good! Great! Now they should tackle the rest of NC's strange ideas. When the get their ducks in a row, they should talk to SAF and NRA about some help from the "big guns."
 
The NRA pissed me off big time, BUT...

First: I'm a BENEFACTOR member of the NRA.

Second: I buy 4 NRA memberships every year for people I know who have never been members.

BUT: I owm a class III firearms and for you that don't know this - class III firearms are the most regulated and most well "behaved" firearms in the USA. By well behaved I mean that since the inception of the NFA there has been, AFAIK, only one crime committed with this type of registered firearm.

The NRA threw me and my fellow class III owner's and future owners under the bus to gain some concessions - I.E. COMPROMISE. If you haven't figured it out yet, this is how the anti-gun crowd works - they win by continually chipping away at out rights until there are none left.

SO WHY DO I CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE NRA? Because they are the strongest and loudest voice that gun owners have. When politicians and anti-groups attack us they demonize the NRA - I've never heard them attack or mention any of the other pro-gun groups.

Yeah, they also irritate me by incessantly asking for ME for money, but I know why. NRA members carry the other 95% of gun owners who don't support them and they have no choice to ask for more money so they can continue OUR work.

Can you imagine the clout gun owners would have if we all thought enough of our guns to spend $35 a year ($25 for the first year for new members) as CHEAP insurance to protect your right to own them. If you don’t want to look like a deer staring into headlights when they come for your guns them you better do something NOW! It's easier to keep what you already have than trying to get it back...Doc
 
I'm a member and a supporter. I also got this notice a couple of days ago from a local guy who is a big-time Second Amendment supporter, a longtime NRA member, a concealed weapons permit trainer, and a fellow who works hard in the trenches every day for gun owners in my state ... an indication, perhaps, that the NRA isn't perfect:

OFF ALERT 09.22.10
OPPOSE DISCLOSE!


The clock is ticking on the current Senate’s ability to ram its big government agenda down our throats, and now Harry Reid is trying one last time to silence groups like OFF while giving a free pass to the NRA with whom he cut a deal. (Reid had received almost $10,000.00 from NRA in the last two elections.)

The “Disclose Act” is scheduled for a vote tomorrow and it’s designed to protect the establishment while ending the ability of grass roots groups to engage in political speech

Reid has scheduled a cloture vote on S. 3628, the DISCLOSE Act (which should be known as “the Establishment Protection Act”), for this Thursday.

Please contact Senator Jeff Merkley at (202) 224-3753 and Senator Ron Wyden at (202) 224-5244 right away and demand they OPPOSE DISCLOSE on every vote – including cloture.

This terrible and certainly unconstitutional legislation was tacitly approved by the NRA when they were given a “carve out” from it by Reid. The Democrats KNOW it’s unconstitutional and KNOW it will be overturned, but not in time for the upcoming elections, and that is their plan.

This bill will infringe on our members’ privacy and limit our ability to mobilize grassroots activists while exempting the NRA.

The big government supporters are scrambling to act before many of them lose their seats in November. They are trying to gag any organization that opposes them by lying to you about what this bill does. It’s not about “big corporations” it’s about groups like OFF, Gun Owners of America and activist organization across the country.

Wyden and Merkley are among the most anti-liberty Senators in the country. But they still need to know where you stand.

Please contact Senator Jeff Merkley at (202) 224-3753 and Senator Ron Wyden at (202) 224-5244 right away and demand they OPPOSE DISCLOSE on every vote – including cloture.
 
The NRA is/has become like any other political organization with it members or constituents...they've gone to a platform of telling you what's good for you and pushing their personal thoughts and beliefs downward.
I swear to god if I ever could hear a politician come out and say "I won't vote for X because my constituents tell me that they don't support it", I'll fall out of my chair.
In the end they all get in those positions to push their personal agenda and tell YOU what's good for YOU instead of listening. I'm fed up with hearing "this is good for YOU" from all those <deleted -- Sam>
The NRA has become no better than the politicians that they're in bed with.
 
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they've gone to a platform of telling you what's good for you and pushing their personal thoughts and beliefs downward.

I don't, exactly, disagree with this. However, this is a distinctly two-edged sword.

On the one hand we want the organization to listen to us. On the other hand, we look to the organization (and others) to LEAD and EDUCATE.

Examples: 20 years ago, many, MANY gun-owners didn't care and probably had never really even thought about, concealed carry law reforms. Many factors have contributed to the explosion of that issue in importance, but a lot of the "grass roots" support of it can be traced to the NRA placing "Armed Citizen" stories and articles on CCW gear and legislation in the mail boxes of 4-5 million hunters and target shooters every month -- over and over until enough folks had normalized the idea of personal defense that the broader cultural swing could support good legislation.

20 years ago, an "Assault Rifle" was looked upon as a dangerous weapon with marginal legitimate uses by a large segment of the gun-owning population. Again, many things have contributed to the vast sea change in public opinion, but, again, we can thank the NRA for helping perhaps more than any other single element to open the minds of our fellow shooters and usher in the age of the "homeland defense rifle". Every time they feature some 15 year old girl shooting CMP with an AR-15, or an article on hunting with modern autoloaders, they're hammering into the collective consciousness of several million stuck-in-the-mud old fogies that these things are RIGHT and acceptable -- we're all part of the same scene -- and they should vote to support their fellow shooters.

Now, the NRA has not been anywhere near the cutting edge of those issues, nor many others, but it is a mighty tool for building consensus and educating the membership to the benefit of all.

So, yes, on the one hand we all want the NRA to listen to us -- our personal opinion -- and stop compromising, oppose this or that legislation, endorse our favorite candidate or whatever else. But we cannot be so blind as not to acknowledge that the Association also acts as a massive prod to advance the understanding about and drum up support for some of "our" more advanced issues among the large majority of the semi-educated and marginally-engaged joe average gun owners.

And remember, while you're sending letters (or complaining on internet forums) to the effect that the NRA aught to push for the repeal of the NFA'34, a significant number of fellows named Earl are telling Wayne and Chris to lay off this "extremist, bullet-hose assault-rifle, pistol-packing GUN NUT agenda" and get back to the "real" issues like skeet shooting and deer hunting.

It's just not a simple problem.
 
I hate my truck. A lot of the time, it ends up doing something I don't want it to do. It doesn't run the way I wish it would. It fails when I wish it wouldn't.

But I rely on it everyday to do what it is supposed to do. More often than not, it does that just perfectly. There's no sense in putting my money into a different truck because the next one will not really be much different than this one. This one is tested anyway, and I've come to know it. No truck is perfect, so I'll just keep standing with this one because it is doing alright by me.

Member for life.
 
Hmmm... do you know of some organizations that advocate removing the prohibitions against convicted violent felons? Or of any that advocate allowing children to purchase handguns?

I have been approached outside of a gun show in Newbern, NC and handed a pamphlet that listed those exact things. This was the late nineties and I don't remember the exact name.

More recently I have heard a lot of people saying any law is an infringment. That would mean the laws that put those restrictions in place are infringements.

Nicki Fellenzer, the news links director (and feature writer) for RighttoKeepandBearArms.com, has wrote in her piece How The NRA Bargains Away Our Rights,

..the NRA supports unconstitutional gun laws..

Some of the laws she lists are laws that call for back ground checks and restrictions on convicted violent criminals.

To me that means she, as well as the organizations she represents, believe that those laws are infringements.

I'll leave that particular discussion for another thread.

Really? Nobody is addressing these issues? That's a shame on your state organizations, then. NRA can help with some of those cases, but having a local group get the ball rolling and carry the fight to their local representatives will go a lot further than a national organization stepping in to try to batter down state laws if the citizens of that state don't seem to be invested in those issues.

When a bill was brought before the state legislature to allow CCH permitees to take their guns to places that sell alcohol for consumption on premises, no organization I know of stood to fight for it. When the anti's came out screaming about blood int he streets, silence from RKBA groups. When editorals ran saying permitees wanted to get drunk and play with guns, more silence.

Thank you for correcting me on the Katrina issue. I was unaware of that particular court case. I appologize for spreading false information.

Who is? NRA? What?

I believe the NRA sold out North Carolina gun owners to protect the interest of the corporations that give them millions in grants and advertising dollars. They rolled over on legislation they had fought for a long time. Plus they endorsed the canidate that wrote it. I understand how bad a rash of suits against the industry could have been. However, I do not feel like giving in to extortion or black mail solves the overall problem.

Good! Great! Now they should tackle the rest of NC's strange ideas. When the get their ducks in a row, they should talk to SAF and NRA about some help from the "big guns."

When I get over this stomach virus I plan on writing to find out their position on my concerns. Then I am going to see what can be done to adress those "strange ideas."
 
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Life member here for almost 20 years.

Looking back, a person has to look at things realistically. True.....the NRA has ticked me off (and many others) quite a bit over the years, BUT....they are NOT the same organization they were when I joined, and are getting "with it" so to speak.

There used to be quite a FUDD mentality running things, this has finally changed:), and being such a large organization it moves slowly sometimes to address new issues that crop up. They represent and have finally recognized the "black rifle" or "mil-surp" crowd as a powerful part of the NRA.

All politics are local....who wouldn't love to see the NRA dump their entire war chest of money into your state to stop some new gun law? But there are 50 states they have to work with.

All I can say, join up, vote in NRA elections, give what you can even if it is only a buck or two, contact your NRA people and be active. These actions are what keeps the NRA doing the right things. The membership has a responsibility to change the organization AND keeping it up to date on the changing tactics of the enemies moves.

Any organization is only as good as its members.
 
I don't see any organization that has the comprehensive platform that the NRA has. I even know 1 anti-NRA guy that went to the Whittington Center to train. Some much for loyalty and convictions.

NRA was the only game in town when they "Compromised" as many put it. I also hear they "Threw us under the bus". Of course reading here on THR I also heard the NRA had the rug pulled out from under them.

Life & the NRA aren't perfect.

Somebody show me a better alternative to support. In the meantime I support the NRA. I shoot at competitions and ranges they help make possible.

If you have a state organization do you support it?
 
When a bill was brought before the state legislature to allow CCH permitees to take their guns to places that sell alcohol for consumption on premises, no organization I know of stood to fight for it. When the anti's came out screaming about blood int he streets, silence from RKBA groups. When editorals ran saying permitees wanted to get drunk and play with guns, more silence.

Then you are clearly not following the discussion. NRA News has covered every state that has offered concealed carry into establishments that sell alcohol for the past several years. I've heard many interviews with advocates for the laws on their program over the past few years. They're aired on both satellite radio networks, and you can listen (actually view) the nightly shows on line.
 
The NRA is the most prepared, coherent, and effective leadership agency fighting for our gun rights. Its a rather childish argument to stay on the sidelines and withhold support because they ask for money, or because they have compromised on occasion. The NRA is us. If we want to change the emphasis of the organization, then get involved and change it. But there is no excuse for gun owners who value their rights to make excuses and fail to stick together. Money and numbers talk. If you feel the incremental losses we've seen these past decades are acceptable, then by all means, come up with continued excuses to not join with NRA. Others will carry your water in this fight, and I'm sure Mr Obama will let you know what firearms will be acceptable for you to use on your hunting trips and for your self defense needs.
 
Whether or not you agree 100% with the NRA they are the largest organization out their and they fight everyday for our rights. Every gun owner should be a member and those more well off should donate at least a bit.

Frankly any gun owner who opposes the NRA is playing right into the hands of the anti's.

I am a proud card carrying member of the NRA and I do send them a few bucks here and their. I don't agree with a lot of what they do, but at the end of the day they are fighting for something I hold dear and that's worth my support.
 
The NRA & the 1994 Clinton ban:

Sure, the NRA got us the ten year expiration, and for that, thanks.

BUT, that situation should NEVER have happened in the first place where we wind up begging to have our rights suspended for only ten years!

And may I add, those were ten long, crummy years, culminating with the Hilary Hole in fine S&W revolvers in 2002!

Without "so-called" AWB we never would have ever had the phrase "PRE-BAN" enter our lexicon.

And in the end as we all know it was nothing more than an "evil looking features" ban.

At least HR1022 did not progress. I'm frankly amazed that the Socialist-In-Chief and the Majority Witch haven't got to ramming it through yet- but that may be on the list for the lame-duck congress after Nov. 2010 elections, re-introduce HR1022 and cram it up our hienies... and that would be game-over.
 
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