Why Would You Even Ask This Question.

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stchman said:
Search your vehicle? What if the employee said, "No, you're NOT searching my vehicle."?
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Not sure but I bet it means you lose your $27 (starting pay) an hour union job and probably get blackballed in the industry because there's really only one other company in town you can go to.
 
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So first of all so far as I know they've never actually searched anybody's vehicle here. However the sign is up. It's very clearly posted and I will just about bet you that refusing a search is grounds for immediate dismissal.

As far as the policy goes it's reasonable to assume that because the building is posted but not the entrance to the property that you were prohibited from having a gun in the building but not in your car.

I don't know this but I suspect that if the company feels it's necessary to search your vehicle or your locker inside the plant you are already on thin ice with the company.

That said, if even the senior employee on site is not aware of any solid company policy prohibiting firearms in your vehicle I would think should you be found with one you would have legitimate grounds to claim good faith ignorance of the policy. However since Colorado is a right-to-work state it may not save you because if they really want you gone they just let you go.
 
So the reason I started this thread is because this is something that I see gun owners more than any other group do.

It comes up as a topic of discussion every couple of months on almost every gun forum I read. " Should I ask my boss if it's okay for me to carry at work?".

I used to be a supervisor for a security company in Colorado Springs that had a very specific policy that unarmed guards were prohibited from having a firearm on client property without written authorization. Not in your car, not in your lunch box certainly not on your person. Every. Single. Time. I did a new hire class I would read the company policy straight out of the company handbook and I would no sooner stop talking then some idiot in the back of the class would announce to the class "Well, I have a gun in my car right now." In my mind that's analogous to my telling you that there's a company policy prohibiting use of alcohol at any time during the work day and you informing me that you have a margarita everyday at lunch no matter what.

I worked for another security company that had a similar policy and During the new hire orientation one of the new hires announced to the entire class that he was an open-carry advocate and he carried everywhere he went and he understood that he was being hired as an unarmed guard but would the company allow him to carry his own gun on the clock the person giving the orientation looked at him like he was literally crazy. In my mind an intelligent person doesn't do that.

In today's politically correct world I don't allow my employer into my personal life. They don't need to know what my off the clock interests are. They don't need to know my religious beliefs. They don't need to know my political beliefs and unless it's directly related to my job they don't need to know where I stand on controversial issues.

I actually worked for a company for 3 years that had an absolute zero tolerance policy on violence. They specifically stated that if one of your co-workers is beating the hell out of you and you throw a punch in self-defense you would be automatically terminated. They would walk people out the door for coming in and saying " I'm so mad today I could just kill someone" to a co-worker.

I have never worked for a company that had an ambiguous firearms policy. It's always been either absolutely not. Yes but with restrictions or no policy at all. If there's no policy at all I keep my mouth shut
 
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In Kansas a company cannot stop you from carrying in your car onto the property, Castle Law Doctrine. BUT do not take it out or show it. A company has rules, you agree to them when you take their pay.

Sound like the fellow just wanted to assure himself of being noticed.

J
 
State laws differ, but IL also protects the right to store your firearm in your car, even at prohibited places such as schools.

I can't imagine your company has a right to prevent storing your gun in your locked car... But I'm not that imaginative :)
 
Friend of mine works at a major drug company in Delaware. By law the company {as he tells it} cannot look in the passenger part of the car, only the trunk. And at that, they aren't allowed to move anything in the trunk. Only what's in plain sight. :confused: How that would work with SUV, I have no idea.
 
The last company I worked for was literally the owner, myself and one other guy. The owner was an outdoorsman and into guns, although I would say he was more of a collector/Hunter.

I told him when I got my CC just by happenstance in conversation. He said he didn't want me carrying while on the job for obvious reasons (construction), but didn't care about storing it in my vehicle. That conversation ultimately pushed him to get his CC.

My current employer, which is a larger company, has a policy in their handbook of "no firearms on company property". I've only been there a couple months but have already found there are several gun enthusiasts and a couple who carry and keep guns in their vehicles.

I didn't ask and haven't told, so I'm going to keep doing what I always do. No security to worry about here.
 
My Employer has an Employee Handbook. You get a hardcopy as a new hire and then receive a digital copy each year that you must indicate you have rec'd and understand its contents.

Knowing Company Policy is your responsibility, no one else's.

Asking a Supervisor what the policy is, without revealing your own personal actions thus far, won't get you on any list at my office. (I wouldn't necessarily ask our CEO how many lbs of C4 he thought it would it take to level our front office, but,, you get my point)

Asking a Supervisor what the policy is, and revealing your own personal actions thus far, is rather stupid if the subject matter is one that can get you wrote up and/or terminated.

I have various metallic reloading components on my desk. (No primers or powder) Some of my best 'perforated' rifle targets hang on my walls. (Surprising how many other folks see it and indicate they also shoot!)

I won't bring a firearm inside the building or have one on my person onsite.

I've picked up numerous firearms from my FFL on lunch break and left them in my vehicle onsite, (obscured from view) till I got off work/went home,

Know the rules or suffer the consequences. Most of us learn that at a very early age, while some never learn,,,,,.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
This was prompted by the owners finally becoming aware that the former general manager kept a .50 Desert Eagle in his desk drawer for, like, 3 years.....:rofl:
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And in all that time, the pistol never hopped out of the desk drawer, and shot anybody, ever? Guns kill, you know.
 
Search your vehicle? What if the employee said, "No, you're NOT searching my vehicle."?
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Pretty simple. You don't have to let them search your vehicle--if you refuse, they have no recourse in terms of legally forcing you to comply. But they don't have to keep you as an employee.

In other words, an employee is free to violate company policy any time they choose to do so. The company is free to terminate any employee who won't follow company policy.
 
Employers, whether gov't or corporate, routinely have employees sign acknowledgements for policy handbooks. I've used a ton of those in depositions to prove that employees knew what policy was. Those employees routinely claimed that either X wasn't the policy, or that they "didn't know that X was the policy." At that point, I used to pull out the page, get the deponent to acknowledge his or her signature, and then have them read the last line, which was almost always "I have read and understood this handbook." At that point, it really ceases to matter whether that person ever actually read the handbook. For all legal purposes, he read and understood the handbook.

As for me, if I have a question about policy, I either have a copy of the handbook, or I ask my boss for one, and I go look up the answer. No need to tip my hand.
 
buck460XVR said:
...and how do you know it's unstated? Odds are, if a company has a policy and has informed folks their cars may be searched for specific prohibited items.......don't you think they would specify which items those are?:confused: Or do you think they are going to search vehicles just for ships and giggles? Again, ignorance is not going to get you a free pass. Do you think getting a warning is not going to put you on company radar? Unfortunately, folks don't always read employee handbooks, nor do they read the new ones when they are updated. Where I work we get updates on the company handbooks about every two moths via e-mail. We have to reply that we have read and understand the changes. Most folks just automatically press the reply key and move on without even reading. Ignorance is never an excuse. Having company policy verified is not a bad thing, if and when the policy is vague. Odds are, the policy in this scenario is not as vague as we are led to believe.
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I understand what you are saying. I think your first Sentence is key. It leads to the question, "Whose responsibility is it to make sure policy is read and understood - the employers or the employees?" In fact, the responsibility is shared. The company must show that the policy has been made available to read and understand and that they have clearly directed their employees to where they may find it while requiring them to do so."

While ignorance of the law is no excuse, which is the premise of your argument, policy which is not readily available, clearly defined, or required reading is not necessarily enforceable.
 
Hokkmike said:
While ignorance of the law is no excuse, which is the premise of your argument, policy which is not readily available, clearly defined, or required reading is not necessarily enforceable.
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Kinda my point.....

As I said, the company probably has clearly defined policy. Still, the OP has not been able to tell us what that policy is. Nor has he or any one else been able to tell us what his state law about guns in parking lot is, altho it took me only a few seconds to find out. The guy asking his supervisor company policy, isn't the only ignorant gun owner here. At least he is trying to clarify what it is, altho it might not be how others would handle it. Odds are, if I knew the company the OP worked for I could Google their employee handbook. But this is what I see from so many gun owners, and often displayed here on the forum. I'm a gun owner and I'll dam well do what I want regardless of what the law says. Stupid quotes about "concealed means concealed" even tho that may be illegal or against a company policy that the person has agreed to adhere to. OMG....someone asked about company policy, now we're all gonna suffer. Complaining that some dude doesn't know company policy when the complainer doesn't either? What does that tell me, other than that person doesn't care what company policy is. Not the employee I would want to have. Just sayin'. That's the problem whenever you work for someone else. They get to tell you, within reason and the confines of the law, what you can and cannot do on the job.....just as they are the ones dictating what your duties are. They have agreed to pay you and you have agreed to abide by their rules while getting paid. Just how it works.

The guy asking the question probably doesn't care about getting put on the radar. He probably just likes his job and wants to keep it. He aparently cares if he is in violation of breaking company rules.Someone else is the paranoid one.
 
Here's something annoying: in Florida, you can't carry a gun in court, but courthouses have no means of checking weapons so attorneys and other citizens can carry on the way in and after leaving.

If I go to the Miami courthouse, in a crappy part of a crappy city, I have to lock my gun in my vehicle and then walk one or more blocks past some very unsavory people. A criminal attorney with a crazy client has to walk to his car unprotected, and so do prosecutors, victims, the families of victims, and witnesses. Oddly, judges can carry in court, but prosecutors can't, unless they get permission from judges.

Last year the legislature tried to provide for gun checking at courthouses, but I believe the bill died.

Another interesting thing about Florida is that you can ignore a "no guns" sign on a place of business until you're confronted, and they can't confront you if they don't know you're carrying.
 
I think the real reason for this thread is to make people think about the companies they work for , their polices and to check that company policy handbook so as to not loose their job.
 
buck460XVR said:
As I said, the company probably has clearly defined policy. Still, the OP has not been able to tell us what that policy is.
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So, as a third party contractor I don't need to know the client company's policy. I need to know my employer's policy which is crystal clear. It's also worth mentioning that as I've stated more than once in this thread, that apparently not even the general manager of the facility knows what the company policy is.

buck460XVR said:
Nor has he or any one else been able to tell us what his state law about guns in parking lot is, altho it took me only a few seconds to find out.
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So I DO know Colorado law on this. Colorado law sides with the property owner. They have the right to prohibit you from possessing a gun on company property and they can terminate you for violating the company policy.

The worst part of trying to look like the smartest guy in the room is you end up looking like the dumbest guy in the room
 
Trunk Monkey said:


So I DO know Colorado law on this. Colorado law sides with the property owner. They have the right to prohibit you from possessing a gun on company property and they can terminate you for violating the company policy.
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Easy to say now that a link has been posted. Funny you could not inform anyone else of this law until now. I am not trying to act like anything, only not trashing someone who is trying to get information. There are fine lines in many situations as to where one gets affirmation to verify. I have asked different game wardens to give me their definition of a law, and gotten as many different definitions....even tho the law is written in black and white. But having them define how they read the law means if they are the one who approaches me, I can say they told me how the law read. I don't automatically assume they are now going to stalk me for poaching. So is probably true for the guy asking his super. Even being a third party contractor, wouldn't you have to abide by the rules of what is or is not allowed on the property, set by the property owner? Isn't your vehicle also susceptible to being searched for prohibited items?

Sorry, I've never been afraid to ask a question of company/corporate policy from my employer or supervisor. Asking about company policy has never opened my personal life up to them, nor has it ever put me on their "radar". The response I have generally gotten is happy to inform. Those times when policies were maybe blurred or unclear, the question not only helped me, but others I worked with. And yes, sometimes those questions involved company policy about firearms, when I'm on company time, on company property. Maybe I've just been lucky, eh?
 
buck460XVR said:
Easy to say now that a link has been posted. Funny you could not inform anyone else of this law until now. I am not trying to act like anything, only not trashing someone who is trying to get information. There are fine lines in many situations as to where one gets affirmation to verify. I have asked different game wardens to give me their definition of a law, and gotten as many different definitions....even tho the law is written in black and white. But having them define how they read the law means if they are the one who approaches me, I can say they told me how the law read. I don't automatically assume they are now going to stalk me for poaching. So is probably true for the guy asking his super. Even being a third party contractor, wouldn't you have to abide by the rules of what is or is not allowed on the property, set by the property owner? Isn't your vehicle also susceptible to being searched for prohibited items?

Sorry, I've never been afraid to ask a question of company/corporate policy from my employer or supervisor. Asking about company policy has never opened my personal life up to them, nor has it ever put me on their "radar". The response I have generally gotten is happy to inform. Those times when policies were maybe blurred or unclear, the question not only helped me, but others I worked with. And yes, sometimes those questions involved company policy about firearms, when I'm on company time, on company property. Maybe I've just been lucky, eh?
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What the law is was never the question. The question was why would you be dumb enough to ask in the first place. Perhaps you can answer from personal experience?
 
So then, why would you not want to know if something in your car could cost you your job?
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Maybe he should weigh that against how many times his vehicle has been searched in the 20 years he has worked there?

Any company that actually required I submit to a search of my vehicle would not be a company I would continue to work at, and I think have no legal authority to actually search your vehicle against your will without a warrant and law enforcement. Their company policy is not law, though they may choose to terminate you.

Some lawyers come up with all sorts of things like that to put in corporate policies, but employers that actually do those types of things often find turnover high and that is more trouble than it is worth. They also find hothead types that occasionally do think policy is like law, and subject the company to lawsuits when they violate people's rights when they force compliance by doing something stupid like searching personal belongings or vehicles without consent.
 
Almost all companies today unless very small have an Employee Handbook. When you went to work for them you most likely signed a piece of paper stating you have read it. So if it is in the handbook then you know about the rules/policies. Then almost all have a bulletin board where all things are posted and you as an employee are expected to read what is there. If they have a firearms policy that just states no firearms in the buildings then the parking lot is probably OK. I said "Probably" as nothing unless written in stone and everyone knows it really applies in some instances. If it states Company Property then it covers everything they own even the parking lot and you would know that as you signed your name stating you read the employees handbook and you are expected to read the bulletin board. As for all vehicles subject to search in most instances is have probable cause that you have stolen company property and it is in your vehicle. Since 9/11 more and more privately owned facilities have come under federal jurisdiction. Any place that has dangerous chemicals etc etc etc and any place that has waterway loading facilities plus others. (A river next to the facility and you have barges that load or unload) They will post the property. Then there are so many laws and regulations no one is innocent today. We are all Law Breakers. They have made us that. You can read about it
https://mises.org/library/decriminalize-average-man and http://reason.com/archives/2009/10/19/were-all-felons-now

These are just two that popped up in a quick search.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
So I got to work tonight and as I was clocking in I heard two client employees having a discussion.

The facility where I work at has gunbuster signs on the building but not on the entrance gate to the grounds. The only thing on the main gate is a sign that says it any vehicle entering the facility is subject to search.

So apparently, one of the employees saw the signs on the building (that have been there forever) and decided to go inform the general manager he has a concealed handgun permit and wants to know if he can keep a gun in his car or is that not allowed by company policy.

This guy has worked for this company for almost 20 years. (You would think he would clearly understand whatever policy they have by now.) And the only thing that he's really succeeded in doing is putting himself squarely on the company's radar.

The general manager had no idea what the specific company policy is and promised to ask corporate for a ruling. I promise you corporate is going to give him an answer and I suspect this guy is not going to like the answer that they give.

I am positive that he's going to be told that he may not have a weapon in his vehicle on company property and that he is subject to immediate termination should he be caught. Did I mention that there's a sign on the front gate that states that any vehicle that comes on property is subject to search?

This scenario comes up frequently on gun forums and this situation that's going on is the primary reason that I always advocate keeping your mouth shut.

Nobody that I work with even knows I own a gun. They certainly have no reason to suspect that there might be one in my car. Should my vehicle ever be searched and should they ever find a gun in my vehicle I can claim ignorance because the general manager didn't even know for sure what the policy was.

So I said all that to again say that you're better off not discussing your personal life at work. You're better off not asking questions that don't need to be asked especially questions that you won't like the answer to.
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Since I am of the school " don't ask,dont tell " no matter what.

What would happen if your car was searched and a LOCKED & BOLTED safe was found.

If asked to open it your reply could be " its my wife's and I am not allowed access to it ".

Just askin ,cause I am snarky.

And its in the line of things I did when as an LEO we were told no BUG's.
 
Well, she is the Big Boss and if she says your not allowed to access it then that would apply to everyone and anyone. At least, that's how it is in my Castle. Lol.
 
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