Winchester 'Green Tip' to be "Banned"

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kje54

kje54

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This has been hitting the internet in the last couple of days. Supposedly Biden is banning the sale of surplus green tip ammo made at the Lake City plant to the commercial side.
It specifically states the M855/SS109 ammo

NRA-ILA | Treachery! White House Moves to Strangle U.S. Ammunition Supply

So before everyone loses their mind and freaks out:

It's smoke and mirrors to placate the anti-gun base and of course the pro gun organizations are going nuts. Why smoke and mirrors? The manufacture of that ammo began being phased out in 2010 to be replaced by the M855A1 round so Lake City hasn't been making the M855/SS109 for a while now so there's no surplus currently being made. All the surplus that was made is already sitting in military armories or commercial warehouses. Then there's the PMC X-TAC or IMI "green tip" imports that are still around to replace it. On top of all that, they were usually cheaper than Winchester. Will this have a detrimental effect on the overall 223/556 ammo supply? Probably not.
Think about it, the administration telling Lake City to stop making M855/SS109 ammo is like them telling Ford to stop making the 2022 Focus........ Ford doesn't make a 2022 Focus........
 
I agree with the OP relative to the 'seriousness of the problem' or lack of.
I would like to ask why people buy bullets with steel inserts?
Cost?
Hunting? What states allow hunting with them?
Target shooting? They certainly distroy steel targets.
Don't know the rules in other states but bullets that have steel in them are 'illegal' to use anywhere in California (to the best of my knowledge) since it is thought that the steel deflecting off of rocks/steel, etc can create sparks that can create wildfires. BTW, the validity of that assumption is debatable and subject to another thread.
The point being that a ban on M855/SS109 ammo does not prevent anyone from buying commercial or imported steel tipped ammo.
Let the comments begain!
 
epags said:
I agree with the OP relative to the 'seriousness of the problem' or lack of.
I would like to ask why people buy bullets with steel inserts?
Cost?
Hunting? What states allow hunting with them?
Target shooting? They certainly distroy steel targets.
Don't know the rules in other states but bullets that have steel in them are 'illegal' to use anywhere in California (to the best of my knowledge) since it is thought that the steel deflecting off of rocks/steel, etc can create sparks that can create wildfires. BTW, the validity of that assumption is debatable and subject to another thread.
The point being that a ban on M855/SS109 ammo does not prevent anyone from buying commercial or imported steel tipped ammo.
Let the comments begain!
Click to expand...
When I bought it a while back I got it because it was on sale for pretty cheap having no idea what green tip ammo was at the time.
 
epags said:
I agree with the OP relative to the 'seriousness of the problem' or lack of.
I would like to ask why people buy bullets with steel inserts?
Cost?
Hunting? What states allow hunting with them?
Target shooting? They certainly distroy steel targets.
Don't know the rules in other states but bullets that have steel in them are 'illegal' to use anywhere in California (to the best of my knowledge) since it is thought that the steel deflecting off of rocks/steel, etc can create sparks that can create wildfires. BTW, the validity of that assumption is debatable and subject to another thread.
The point being that a ban on M855/SS109 ammo does not prevent anyone from buying commercial or imported steel tipped ammo.
Let the comments begain!
Click to expand...
It's not steel tipped, there is a small steel core. I have some because it used to be very inexpensive.
 
I think we are our own worst enemies sometimes when it comes to stuff like this. This, and the government buying up all the pistol ammo back during Obama's reign comes to mind.

And all it was then, was a normal 5 year order that had no effect on the commercial orders, other than it caused yet another panic among the clueless.

Chicken Little seems to have quite the audience and following. :)
 
From what i have read it was made for penetrating not so hardened targets better like helmets and body armor.
 
plainsdrifter said:
From what i have read it was made for penetrating not so hardened targets better like helmets and body armor.
Click to expand...
I never understood how that got by the armor piercing ammo bans. Everything else supposedly armor piercing, that was chambered in any kind of "pistol" at some point, was banned, yet the 5.56 "Green Tip" gets a wave? Hows that work?
 
kje54 said:
This has been hitting the internet in the last couple of days. Supposedly Biden is banning the sale of surplus green tip ammo made at the Lake City plant to the commercial side.
It specifically states the M855/SS109 ammo

NRA-ILA | Treachery! White House Moves to Strangle U.S. Ammunition Supply

So before everyone loses their mind and freaks out:

It's smoke and mirrors to placate the anti-gun base and of course the pro gun organizations are going nuts. Why smoke and mirrors? The manufacture of that ammo began being phased out in 2010 to be replaced by the M855A1 round so Lake City hasn't been making the M855/SS109 for a while now so there's no surplus currently being made. All the surplus that was made is already sitting in military armories or commercial warehouses. Then there's the PMC X-TAC or IMI "green tip" imports that are still around to replace it. On top of all that, they were usually cheaper than Winchester. Will this have a detrimental effect on the overall 223/556 ammo supply? Probably not.
Think about it, the administration telling Lake City to stop making M855/SS109 ammo is like them telling Ford to stop making the 2022 Focus........ Ford doesn't make a 2022 Focus........
Click to expand...
It could be much more serious than just M855 as Winchester also makes 55gr .223 and various types of 7.62 at LC. If they forbid all non-Govt contract production for commercial sale, it will have an effect on supply prices across the board.

Some lobbyist from Giffords or HCI probably made the regime aware that a federally-owned facility was actually producing "armor piercing" ammo for public sale (I doubt they even knew about the Winchester/ DoD arrangement prior), and they need talking points to prove to their base that they are putting checks in the win column.
 
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NIGHTLORD40K said:
It could be much more serious than just M855 as Winchester also makes 55gr .223 and various types of 7.62 at LC. If they forbid all non-Govt contract production for commercial sale, it will have an effect on supply prices across the board.
Click to expand...
If they did but they have only addressed the M855 specifically. I figure that's because it's politically "safe" to ban something that technically won't be affected then to face the political backlash of banning something that will affect millions.
 
kje54 said:
If they did but they have only addressed the M855 specifically. I figure that's because it's politically "safe" to ban something that technically won't be affected then to face the political backlash of banning something that will affect millions.
Click to expand...
The NRA article and other social media are only talking about the green-tips, but we have yet to see anything official from Winchester or dotGov.
Until we see the actual mandate, its too soon to assess the damage.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
The NRA article and other social media are only talking about the green-tips, but we have yet to see anything official from Winchester or dotGov.
Until we see the actual mandate, its too soon to assess the damage.
Click to expand...
True. I was specifically addressing the beginning of the potential flood of "OMG look what they're doing now!" articles and resultant threads.
 
Lake City is a GOCO facility. One of the prime stipulations of the O&M contract, and what makes it attractive to operators, is that excess production capacity can be sold on the commercial market. It's a win-win situation, as those redundant production lines are kept operational, can flex back to the primary mission (replenishment of US and allied munition supplies) on a moments notice, but provide revenue to the operator on a normal day-to-day basis. Since the operators cost volume submission is based on these available commercial sales, such a clause couldn't be ended mid-contract cycle, and if attempted, Olin would immediately file valid legal protests in Federal court that would get the injunction suspended until the next bid/proposal period. Any operator placing such bids in the future will have to increase costs to the taxpayer to account for this virtue signaling power play by the administration.
 
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epags said:
I would like to ask why people buy bullets with steel inserts?
Click to expand...
For a good long while, the stuff was inexpensive, near-plinking ammo. Dirt backstop didn't care, so why should a shooter?
Some cool "cachet" about using the milspec ammo, but, mostly, it was because the stuff was on the shelves.

Military was not issuing it out as "special purpose" either.

So a rather large deal is being made about this ammo, now. But, it's been an "equivalent" to M2 ball for decades, at least in the way it was issued out.
 
This is so humorous. 1)ID a potential problem and in same breath 2)tell ppl EXACTLY what they want, nothing is wrong, do nothing about it:alien:

trackskippy said:
I never understood how that got by the armor piercing ammo bans. Everything else supposedly armor piercing, that was chambered in any kind of "pistol" at some point, was banned, yet the 5.56 "Green Tip" gets a wave? Hows that work?
Click to expand...
BECAUSE WE THE PEOPLE SPOKE:cuss: RIGHT UP

NIGHTLORD40K said:
from Winchester or dotGov.
Until we see the actual mandate, its too soon to assess the damage.
Click to expand...
That's kinda like, unless Russia invades Ukraine it's not...but they amassed all forces on the border, and not for a picnic. Guess how that's working out.

Well, perhaps we can chase the horse once it's down the lane. Oh oh this is better, maybe it'll come back home when it gets hungry! No reason to make sure that pesky latch is clicked...
 
kje54 said:
Think about it, the administration telling Lake City to stop making M855/SS109 ammo is like them telling Ford to stop making the 2022 Focus........ Ford doesn't make a 2022 Focus........
Click to expand...

Agreed. This may sound good or bad to those that aren't aware that the GOCO ammunition plants simply aren't making this product, but knowing that it is of a product not in production makes it just propaganda for the uninformed.
 
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