Winchester white box .45 made by Sellier and Bellot?

[Len_in_Phoenix]

Hi gang

I haven't purchased any factory ammo for several years, so please forgive me if I'm behind the curve on this one. I picked up some Winchester white box 230 fmj .45acp today (part number Q4170) and was surprised to find that it read "made in Czech Republic" on the back of the box. The brass and the packaging are identical to the S&B hardball that I've had laying around for a while. The only difference is in the headstamp and the lack of red sealant on the "Winchester" ammo.

I know that Winchesters' Q3131A 5.56mm M193 ball is made in Israel.....are there any other rounds that have been "outsourced?"


Curious Len in PHoenix

 

[garrettwc]

Lots of companies do this. They have subcontract deals with places around the World. It's a capacity thing. There are only a few ammo plants around the world, but lots of demand.

Most of the com-bloc ammo (Makarov for example) for Winchester, Federal, etal are made in Czech Republic. Federal does business with Aguila in Mexico...

The Q-series stuff is Government contract surplus in a lot of cases so it could be made anywhere.

What I commonly think of as "White Box" - Winchester USA - from Wally World is marked made in USA.

 

[DT Guy]

Based on my experiences with W-W white box and S+B, it would be an improvement if they had made such a change.


Larry

 

[Black Snowman]

Since Wincheter retooled most of their domestic prodution for military contracts quite a bit of S&B ammo has made it into the states in pretty white boxes saying "Winchester" from what I've heard.

S&B is good ammo and a great value. If I have to buy factory it's what I look for 1st. My defensive shotgun ammo I use for HD is S&B. Just happens to be cheap enough that I can practice with it too, which I find to be a big plus since I don't reload shotshells.

Other than the color of the box and tray I can't see any differance between the Win "Metric" rounds like 7.62x25 Tok and the S&B counterparts.

All good stuff. I might be biased though, I like the Czech's guns and women too

 

[stans]

You learn something new every day!!! The only problem I have ever had with S&B has been tight primer pockets, otherwise I find it to be excellent.

 

[George S.]

I wonder if the marked boxes just had components that were made in the Czech Republic? Either the brass or bullets (or both) and then Winchester did the actual loading step?

In any event, I like both the WWB and S&B for target and plinking. S&B seems to be a bit hotter than WWB and cleaner to shoot. S&B is even a bit cheaper when I order it from my on-line source www.outdoormarksman.com in Salem, OR.

 

[foghornl]

Hmmmm......

I'll have to look at my USA Brand (AKA Winchester White Box) ammo. If it was made by Sellier & Bellot, OK with me. Also, I like the WWB stuff in my snubby .38Spl.

I have used S&B ammo in .45, and a shooting buddy likes their 9Milly stuff in his Beretta 92

 

[silent one]

I have been using S&B ammo for years, and never had a problem with any cal, from .25 cal thru .45 cal. It's accurate, clean burning, and relatively inexpensive. I buy on line from www.natchezss.com. Their latest price for a box of 50 rounds of .45 cal is $8.25 . They are great people to deal with, and the ammo is delivered to my door in 3 to 4 days. As far as WWB using S&B as a contractor to produce their ammo, I would have to say it's good ammo.


SILENT ONE

 

[Onmilo]

Winchester is a Government Contractor for .45 acp ammunition and I understand their production facilities are at capacity meeting these needs so they have subcontracted with S&B to meet civilian demand for low cost ammunition.
Brand name defense loads and match grade ammunition is still produced in the U.S. facilities for civilian consumption

 

[Zeke Menuar]

S&B manufactures 7.62 x 54R for Winchester. This isn't much of a surprise.

ZM

 

[Ky Larry]

I have several hundred rounds of WWB .45 ACP 230 gr JHP (part # USA45JHP)
It's all marked "Made In USA." I would be interested in seeing a comparison of the velocity of the American made WWB hardball and the S&B made WWB hardball. IIRC, the American .45 ACP WWB hardball is a little on the slow side, but I could be wrong.

 

[Len_in_Phoenix]

Purely in the interest of science, I made the sacrifice today and went to the range.

New Winchester white box 230 fmj Q4170(Made in Czech Republic):
Kimber 5" bbl
avg velocity 868.6 fps
max velocity 887.5 fps
min velocity 845.2 fps
velocity spread 42.3 fps
standard deviation 16.35

Kimber 4" bbl
avg velocity 806.4 fps
max velocity 822.4 fps
min velocity 799.8 fps
velocity spread 22.6 fps
standard deviation 9.21

Sellier and Bellot 230 fmj
Kimber 5" bbl
avg velocity 858.0 fps
max velocity 867.7 fps
min velocity 849.3 fps
velocity spread 18.4 fps
standard deviation 6.16

I apologize for not having any short barrel info for the S&B ammo.....the S&B test was made prior to the acquisition of my CDP. If I can find a local source for S&B ammo I'll force myself to go back to the range and do more testing.

Len in PHoenix

 

[Ky Larry]

Thanks, Len.

Larry