Brian Williams
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Get him a Ruger bearcat and 2 cases of 22 ammo, have him shoot 50 rounds thru it every day.
Working in the woods carry
- Thread starter Mencius
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Vern Humphrey
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But teach him the basics before gving him the gun, and stress that every shot has to be perfect -- sloppy practice is worse than no practice.
EMC45
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I say a PD turn-in Model 65 Smith and Wesson. They can be had for a song, most have finish wear/scratches etc. so as to not feel bad when you put your own on them. Also it has fixed sights that are rugged and shoot to point of aim with a 158gr. bullet. It is SS and a K frame which carries very nicely. It can shoot .38 ammo as well. And lastly a nice hardcast 158-170gr. bullet out of the .38 or .357 will kill a deer.
Legality?
Most states frown upon taking animals out of season, regardless of who's property you are on. Therefore, the deer part of it is not very practical reason to carry. Why not a cheap, lw .22 autorifle, like a used Marlin Glenfield M60? $50 or so, you know, and real accuracy, compared to what a novice can deliver with any handgun.
Most states frown upon taking animals out of season, regardless of who's property you are on. Therefore, the deer part of it is not very practical reason to carry. Why not a cheap, lw .22 autorifle, like a used Marlin Glenfield M60? $50 or so, you know, and real accuracy, compared to what a novice can deliver with any handgun.
sm
member
He is not a gun guy remember?
Hence the reason many of us, are suggesting .22 rim-fire. This allows one to get the correct basic fundamentals, continue quality practice, with less recoil, and costs.
All this transitions to the centerfire, and when one gets in a slump, they can fall back to the .22 rim-fire to get back on track.
Not to mention, the .22 rim-fire IS proven on property, farm, ranch, and woods duty.
Fun.
We also forget, new shooters having FUN, tend to continue to learn and grow in the firearms community.
.22 rim-fire IS proven in FUN factor, and getting folks more involved in all aspects of firearms.
Hence the reason many of us, are suggesting .22 rim-fire. This allows one to get the correct basic fundamentals, continue quality practice, with less recoil, and costs.
All this transitions to the centerfire, and when one gets in a slump, they can fall back to the .22 rim-fire to get back on track.
Not to mention, the .22 rim-fire IS proven on property, farm, ranch, and woods duty.
Fun.
We also forget, new shooters having FUN, tend to continue to learn and grow in the firearms community.
.22 rim-fire IS proven in FUN factor, and getting folks more involved in all aspects of firearms.
wow6599
Member
Just me........I would try to get him to sell the 30-30 and get a 6" GP100 and a Marlin 1894C. Two guns, use the same ammo and both are easy to learn on.
Loads from hot 200 gr for large animals to plinkin with .38 Spl - all bases covered.
Loads from hot 200 gr for large animals to plinkin with .38 Spl - all bases covered.
If he is doing any farming on the land, it is called "pest control", if it's on your land shot it. Not illegal, no premit required. If it's deer hunting season, he can get a free set of tags for the kill.(most states)
Keep the 30-30, for a handgun, I would go with a new Ruger GP-100 4 inch in 357 Mag. If he is in the deep woods I would change that to a 44 Mag (better on larger game). For pratice he can use 44 specials in the 44 mag.
I am one that disagrees on learning on a 22. If you want to learn how to drive a 18 wheeler you do not start out on a VWbug.
Jim
41magsnub
Member
Bad analogy... how many people that show up at truck driving school do not already have a normal drivers license?
Too many, the last one I am aware of killed 6 people on the expressway and got Governer George Ryan sent to prison.
But that has nothing to do with what I said, If you want to learn - use what you are going to use, not something else that is totally different. I also disagree with people qualifiing for their CC permit with a 22 pistol instead of the J frame that they will be carring. Or that I am qualified to fly the space shuttle just becasue I have a pilots license.(NOT)
Jim
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I dont see a good ending for a guy who isnt "a gun guy" attempting to "live off the land" unless he's a vegatarian and has a ginourmous garden already harvested as its a bit late in the year to start one.
As for guns i recommend a 22lr and either a 357mag in good condition by a major brand or a 45colt Ruger Blackhawk and make sure to get him the same action for which ever you/he chooses (i.e if its a single action 45colt get him a single action 22lr).
As for a 45colt lacking power, there are many 45colt loads that you can use in a Blackhawk that are more powerful than a 44mag. Single actions do take a bit of work to master but its pretty much the safest of all revolvers.
As for guns i recommend a 22lr and either a 357mag in good condition by a major brand or a 45colt Ruger Blackhawk and make sure to get him the same action for which ever you/he chooses (i.e if its a single action 45colt get him a single action 22lr).
As for a 45colt lacking power, there are many 45colt loads that you can use in a Blackhawk that are more powerful than a 44mag. Single actions do take a bit of work to master but its pretty much the safest of all revolvers.
Vern Humphrey
Member
A garden doesn't have to be enourmous -- if you're familiar with Square Foot Gardening, 48 square feet (3 raised beds 4X4 feet) can feed an adult.
My approach is to make my beds 5 feet wide and 10 feet long (because I have 10' 1X6s). Two beds like that would be my choice if I were alone -- and the amount of work is minimal.
My approach is to make my beds 5 feet wide and 10 feet long (because I have 10' 1X6s). Two beds like that would be my choice if I were alone -- and the amount of work is minimal.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Yep. I make my beds of 1X6s. If I were serious, I'd add one more bed made of 1X12s -- for root crops, potatos, carrots, turnips and so on.
The key to Square Foot Gardening is composting, which provides the fertile growning material. Initially, you'd start off with a mixture of peat moss, vermiculite and compost, which you'd probably have to buy. After that I'd have a humongous compost pile and add compost each harvest.
The key to Square Foot Gardening is composting, which provides the fertile growning material. Initially, you'd start off with a mixture of peat moss, vermiculite and compost, which you'd probably have to buy. After that I'd have a humongous compost pile and add compost each harvest.
Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
Also make sure he eats more than just rabbit meat, it is missing some key vitamin or mineral and he will starve to death.
Armored farmer
Member
The ol' MK II Ruger .22 would be my choice for such an undertaking. The ear splitting .357 would soon have all the fresh meat scared away for a mile in every direction.
When taking a deer on a nuisance permit here in Il., you are required to leave the animal in the field. You are NOT allowed to keep the meat.
When taking a deer on a nuisance permit here in Il., you are required to leave the animal in the field. You are NOT allowed to keep the meat.
SSN Vet
Member
I think the Win 94 and a .357 revolver would be a great combination.
These became 'classic' firearms for a reason.
R.C. hit the nail on the head.
These became 'classic' firearms for a reason.
R.C. hit the nail on the head.
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Mr.Revolverguy
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10MM is what you are looking for
I have seen 10MM referenced a number of times which is very cool, but not just cool I believe this caliber is the ultimate woods caliber for what you describe. I would then look into a 22 rimfire and as others have stated leave the snakes alone
Unless your like my father who lives in Florida and found a 11foot python in his back yard this year who lives across the street from a daycare. By the way my mom knows why here cat went missing now as well but I digress. Even then my father held his shotgun and just watched the snake while my mom called animal control. Some may think why did he need his shotgun even after my mom described the snake it took animal control 90 minutes to arrive on scene so he was prepared to kill it had it tried to get away but it sat and just watched him again I digress,
Though 10MM has been referenced a S&W 610 would be my platform of choice, you can shoot 40S&W in a revolver which tames recoil to make it feel as if your shooting 38 special yet 40S&W is still very potent and highly available. Then for woods carry stoke it with some Corbon 10MM ammo.
Here is a review I did on my very first day of owning a S&W 610
http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=1
I have seen 10MM referenced a number of times which is very cool, but not just cool I believe this caliber is the ultimate woods caliber for what you describe. I would then look into a 22 rimfire and as others have stated leave the snakes alone
Unless your like my father who lives in Florida and found a 11foot python in his back yard this year who lives across the street from a daycare. By the way my mom knows why here cat went missing now as well but I digress. Even then my father held his shotgun and just watched the snake while my mom called animal control. Some may think why did he need his shotgun even after my mom described the snake it took animal control 90 minutes to arrive on scene so he was prepared to kill it had it tried to get away but it sat and just watched him again I digress, Though 10MM has been referenced a S&W 610 would be my platform of choice, you can shoot 40S&W in a revolver which tames recoil to make it feel as if your shooting 38 special yet 40S&W is still very potent and highly available. Then for woods carry stoke it with some Corbon 10MM ammo.
Here is a review I did on my very first day of owning a S&W 610
http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=1
Mencius
Member
Thanks for all the replies guys! Just a bit of clarification, when I said "not a gun guy" I meant not a gun guy like most of us here. He does not have a bunch of guns and does not go out shooting very often. He has been out shooting, dove hunting, and such with me and our other brother especially when we were younger. Most of his shooting was with a shotgun and .22 rifle. He knows his way around a gun and has decent fundamentals.
Also, I did say "live off the land" but also said he is going to be raising livestock and such. He is not going to have to rely on his gun to put meat on the table. This whole adventure is going to be ~1 mile from my parents' house and maybe 15 minutes (by car) from me. He is even in the process of building a few small solar cells to power some real low voltage stuff, I think he is talking about charging his cell phone every few days with it as well. He plans to try to live back there as much as he can, but he is not going to kill/harm himself if things get hairy. And, the land (a little less than 20 acres) is his and is surrounded by a good bit more family land.
One last concern a few seemed to have. Our deer season runs from 8/15 to 1/1. Walking up on deer is not "common" but would not really be anything too extraordinary. Considering the length of the season and that he is going to be growing a fair number of vegetables and such I don't think it is out of the question for him to walk up on a deer. The better approach, though, might be to walk out to the garden with rifle in hand, if nothing is around just put it back in the house and continue with the chores of the day.
Oh yeah, we get some really big rattlesnakes around here. I don't really care how many squirrels and rabbits and mice they eat, a 4 or 5 foot eastern diamondback rattlesnake is better dead methinks. Admittedly, snakes that big don't need the pistol rat shot either, though...
Now, the gun stuff...
I guess I do need to look a little more into the .45 LC. Before this I had never really thought much about shooting deer with a pistol. When I go deer hunting I take a rifle. I will have to take this a little more into consideration. How is ammo availability? I will have to try to get by Wal-Mart and see if they keep it.
A .22 is definitely a good addition for all the reasons mentioned. And, considering how cheap it is to shoot might be the best choice. He won't take a shot with a 22 he shouldn't so I don't think it will cause him to wound a deer or something with it.
I actually have a .357 GP100. I think he has shot it in the past, but cannot remember. I got it for the versatility everyone mentioned, but I have never really considered shooting a deer with it. Of course, I have never really thought about shooting a deer with a pistol at all. I am going to try to get out with him some this weekend and plink a little with it and see what he thinks.
I like the pistol/rifle shooting the same caliber thought. I think it might be a little better to have a rifle round and a pistol. This way we can "cover more bases" so to speak. I realize with everything there is a sacrifice, so we are going to sacrifice the single caliber for the little bit more versatility.
Thanks again for all the replies and insight guys!
Also, I did say "live off the land" but also said he is going to be raising livestock and such. He is not going to have to rely on his gun to put meat on the table. This whole adventure is going to be ~1 mile from my parents' house and maybe 15 minutes (by car) from me. He is even in the process of building a few small solar cells to power some real low voltage stuff, I think he is talking about charging his cell phone every few days with it as well. He plans to try to live back there as much as he can, but he is not going to kill/harm himself if things get hairy. And, the land (a little less than 20 acres) is his and is surrounded by a good bit more family land.
One last concern a few seemed to have. Our deer season runs from 8/15 to 1/1. Walking up on deer is not "common" but would not really be anything too extraordinary. Considering the length of the season and that he is going to be growing a fair number of vegetables and such I don't think it is out of the question for him to walk up on a deer. The better approach, though, might be to walk out to the garden with rifle in hand, if nothing is around just put it back in the house and continue with the chores of the day.
Oh yeah, we get some really big rattlesnakes around here. I don't really care how many squirrels and rabbits and mice they eat, a 4 or 5 foot eastern diamondback rattlesnake is better dead methinks. Admittedly, snakes that big don't need the pistol rat shot either, though...
Now, the gun stuff...
I guess I do need to look a little more into the .45 LC. Before this I had never really thought much about shooting deer with a pistol. When I go deer hunting I take a rifle. I will have to take this a little more into consideration. How is ammo availability? I will have to try to get by Wal-Mart and see if they keep it.
A .22 is definitely a good addition for all the reasons mentioned. And, considering how cheap it is to shoot might be the best choice. He won't take a shot with a 22 he shouldn't so I don't think it will cause him to wound a deer or something with it.
I actually have a .357 GP100. I think he has shot it in the past, but cannot remember. I got it for the versatility everyone mentioned, but I have never really considered shooting a deer with it. Of course, I have never really thought about shooting a deer with a pistol at all. I am going to try to get out with him some this weekend and plink a little with it and see what he thinks.
I like the pistol/rifle shooting the same caliber thought. I think it might be a little better to have a rifle round and a pistol. This way we can "cover more bases" so to speak. I realize with everything there is a sacrifice, so we are going to sacrifice the single caliber for the little bit more versatility.
Thanks again for all the replies and insight guys!
Steve 48
Member
It depends whats in the woods. I usually carry a Sp 101 in 357 but when deer hunting, I carry my 44 mag Mountain gun.
jim in Anchorage
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It has no fat. Zero. Fellow tried to do that here in Denali national park[live off rabbits] and they found him dead of starvation, although there is some speculation he may have eaten some poisonous plant.
The bus he was living in is still there and has become a bit of a tourist draw.
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless
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I value my hearing more than knowing there's now only 156 snakes in the surrounding acre that were planning to leave me alone, rather than 157.
I'm not saying you couldn't effectively reduce their numbers, but you aren't going to do it with a revolver loaded with snake shot.
I'm not saying you couldn't effectively reduce their numbers, but you aren't going to do it with a revolver loaded with snake shot.
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Beat Trash
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Mencuis,
I would leave the 30/30 as the rifle. I would look into having him try your GP100. If he likes it, get a 4" one to carry. From snakeshot to 38 spc wadcutters to 357 magnum loads it can handle about anything he would need handled.
I would also try real hard to talk him into a 3rd gun. This would be a 22 lr rifle. A 22 rifle is like a pocket knife, always seem to be using it for something around the farm/homestead. Headshots using regular ammunition (not snakeshot) with a 22 rifle isn't that big of a deal from a safe distance. But then again, I've popped a couple of snakes using 38 spc wad cutter rounds.
I would leave the 30/30 as the rifle. I would look into having him try your GP100. If he likes it, get a 4" one to carry. From snakeshot to 38 spc wadcutters to 357 magnum loads it can handle about anything he would need handled.
I would also try real hard to talk him into a 3rd gun. This would be a 22 lr rifle. A 22 rifle is like a pocket knife, always seem to be using it for something around the farm/homestead. Headshots using regular ammunition (not snakeshot) with a 22 rifle isn't that big of a deal from a safe distance. But then again, I've popped a couple of snakes using 38 spc wad cutter rounds.
I think in my own experience I would not try and bring anyone into Firearms who was not already keenly interested and interested in learning on their own.
It does not tend to go well...or they merely patronize the well intended person trying who is to help them, and, it fizzles afterward.
If he is 'not a gun guy' then why push it on him?
Let him 'live off the land' a few seasons, as he sees fit, and, if he manages, let him decide what he needs or does not need.
He'll figure it out, what works for him.
It does not tend to go well...or they merely patronize the well intended person trying who is to help them, and, it fizzles afterward.
If he is 'not a gun guy' then why push it on him?
Let him 'live off the land' a few seasons, as he sees fit, and, if he manages, let him decide what he needs or does not need.
He'll figure it out, what works for him.
Mencius
Member
Yeah, I am kinda mentioning a .22 would be a good thing to have around. We'll see how it goes. You can get in alot of plinking/shooting for $20 with a .22...
I am not pushing it on him. I realize it may sound that way from my previous posts, but he actually came to me asking what I would recommend. The reason I included a 9mm in the first post is that is what he was considering out the gate. I think I have about brought him around to the 357, but we'll see. I do kinda agree with your implication that having a handgun in this situation is not going to really be a deciding factor in whether he makes it or not.
On a side note, I shot a 454 Cassul this weekend. Probably a little more gun than I need...
I am not pushing it on him. I realize it may sound that way from my previous posts, but he actually came to me asking what I would recommend. The reason I included a 9mm in the first post is that is what he was considering out the gate. I think I have about brought him around to the 357, but we'll see. I do kinda agree with your implication that having a handgun in this situation is not going to really be a deciding factor in whether he makes it or not.
On a side note, I shot a 454 Cassul this weekend. Probably a little more gun than I need...
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